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InvisiblethePatient
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Registered: 07/07/02
Posts: 3,289
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: ]
    #810526 - 08/11/02 08:42 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I ingest mushrooms, psilocybin enters my brain and I hallucinate.. How is this communication?

Maybe the psilocybin acts as a psychedelic "telephone" between you and the mushroom.


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: thePatient]
    #810529 - 08/11/02 08:45 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah and maybe some people dial the wrong numbers...


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InvisibleSclorch
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Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Adamist]
    #810557 - 08/11/02 09:02 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

And maybe some people just imagine that there's someone on the other end.


the Patient: Dont quote me on it, but doesnt the Hawaiin alphabet have only 14 characters? True, that is a lot more than 3, but not as much as 26.
Also, if you break down what a computer is based upon, it comes down to the binary sytem. Which is based upon 1s, and 0s. So communicating through the internet, everything you see on your screen, even when you download your porn, so you can whack it...its all based upon 1s, and 0s. That is 2 characters, which in turn create the 26 characters in our alphabet and a whole lot more information.


Random is random is random...
Random is patternless. No pattern = no code. No code = no communication.
Diffusion is a random process on the molecular level.
Psilocybin enters the bloodstream via diffusion (and is still subject to the randomizing effects of turbulence in the body's fluids- including blood and synaptic fluid. THERE IS NO CODE. Hence, there is no communication. I will argue this no more, I'm right.


Sclorch: Mushrooms contain psilocybin, psilocin (it's direct analog), and sometimes baeocystin
thePatient: Please explain this further. How do you interpret chemicals in the mushrooms as an alphabet?

I don't interpret them as such... I was giving the idea of 'mushroom communication' a chance.

immaculate: I still wanna know the mechanism of communication.. I ingest mushrooms, psilocybin enters my brain and I hallucinate.. How is this communication?

Dude... it's magic!
I honestly don't understand how some think that mushrooms communicate with us.


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InvisiblethePatient
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Sclorch]
    #810596 - 08/11/02 09:21 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I will argue this no more, I'm right.

I laugh when i see people so caught up on their intellect. I laugh at your sclorch. Maybe your too smart for your own good. To say that you are right, and you will argue this no more is ABSURD. How could you possibly believe you are right? Don't you understand, can you even FATHOM, the infinite possibilities that we deal with on a daily basis? To say that you know some for sure is the dumbest thing I've ever seen you type.

"I am wise because i know i know nothing" - Socrates
I believe this quote applies here. No offense, but i find Socrates to be wiser than you.

We once thought that the Earth was flat. We once thought the Earth was the center of the universe. We once thought the atom was the smallest particle in the world...and then we split it. I entertain all possibilies of existence. The mushroom might be no more than an edible treat, or it may be an alien species that traveled through our galaxy and made its home here. Only to grow, and then to be ingested by us, telling us their secrets.

THERE IS NO CODE
I had know idea you were a self-acclaimed code breaking genius.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: thePatient]
    #810646 - 08/11/02 09:49 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Fine. I'm rightER.

As for the "argument" (if you want to call it that, I'd call it a lesson)...
I hate arguing neurophysiology with people who obviously lack education in the fundamentals of said subject. You would be wise to educate yourself (especially on matters such as these) before you subject your ideas to scrutiny in a public forum.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/25/01
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Swami]
    #810670 - 08/11/02 09:58 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

No - and there is no relevance to anything I posted.

You said if you can create it in a lab then this somehow makes it meaningless. I pointed out you can create almost everything in the lab. It has all the relevance in the world.

Sorry, we cannot. Cloning is not creating, but copying.

Sorry, but we can. Check your science. We can manipulate DNA.

This does not follow at all and is not in any way related to my logic. We communicate using the entire organism, not a single molecule.

You call this gibberish "logic"? You communicate using "the entire organism"? Please explain what this means. Do your legs communicate?

Some of us are.

Yes, we are, your "contribution" however appears to be putting down anyone who suggests ideas that "science" hasn't proven. Since science has no interest in addressing these questions and cannot because it is illegal to do research on these substances you points are completely worthless.

Why I do or don't want is, as usual, irrelevant to the thread, but seems you can't directly address any points made without including such puerile comments.

You refuse to countenance any discussion until science has proven it. Science is currently making no effort to address these questions. You are therefore sitting on your ass waiting to be spoonfed an answer that isn't coming. And at the same time making snide and deeply pathetic comments about people working to find an answer.

People do their own research regardless.

Ah, what research is this pray tell? The research that mouse in your pocket tells you is happening? Where is it being done? Serious research takes serious funding. There is no current research project recieving funding for psilocybin. This is fact. Not your fanciful "people are doing their own research" fantasy.

Incidentally, I wouldn't put too much faith in science in areas like this. As GM foods and global warming has shown, funding creates scientific views. If funding is going to guys who produce evidence that GM foods are harmless, evidence will be found that GM foods are harmless. As the research on ecstasy has shown, research showing it's harmless is suppressed, research showing it's dangerous is given billboards in every city in the world. We need a little more than blind faith in politically motivated science in this day and age.


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Edited by Alex123 (08/11/02 10:03 AM)

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Xlea321]
    #810678 - 08/11/02 10:02 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Serious research takes serious funding.

Not always. SHULGIN.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/25/01
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Sclorch]
    #810696 - 08/11/02 10:06 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

No, serious research takes serious funding. Saying "shulgin" does not invalidate this simple fact.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Xlea321]
    #810702 - 08/11/02 10:08 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Einstein.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
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Posts: 9,134
Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #810712 - 08/11/02 10:12 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

No, we're not talking producing theories here. We're talking research. Einsteins theories couldn't be proven until a series of massive experiments costing many millions of dollars were carried out.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

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Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Xlea321]
    #810729 - 08/11/02 10:20 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

He didn't just pull the theory out of thin air. He had to do a lot of research first.

Anyone can do serious research. It doesn't cost a penny.

If you're talking about research and development or experimental verification of theories, yes that can get quite expensive.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #810747 - 08/11/02 10:25 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Unfortunately you can't do research into the effects and mechanism of psilocybin in the human mind in your garden shed. You need enormously expensive equipment etc.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Xlea321]
    #810755 - 08/11/02 10:29 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Okay I agree with you there. But you said "serious research takes serious funding". Just be careful with the blanket statements.

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Anonymous

Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Sclorch]
    #810756 - 08/11/02 10:30 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Shulgin

Einstein

McKenna

I love a flamefest.

Hey, check out the pictures of the nude women clowns in my other thread!

Cheers,

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Anonymous

Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Xlea321]
    #810760 - 08/11/02 10:31 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

You banter too much.. Maybe what Maria Sabina meant was that not everyone can use the state of mind induced by psilocybin mushrooms to see things in a new light, from a new angle, and hopefully learn something new from another experience in life. I still want to know what/how/why/etc the mushrooms are wanting to communicate..

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Offlinemirrorsaw
journeyman
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 52
Last seen: 21 years, 6 months
Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: ]
    #810886 - 08/11/02 11:33 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Some people do experience a sense of communication with the spirit of the entheogen. (and yes, it can happen with synthetic chemicals too)

I would be interested to hear everyone's ideas for why this is.

Psychological / biochemical / entities from another dimension...

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Offlinemirrorsaw
journeyman
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 52
Last seen: 21 years, 6 months
Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: mirrorsaw]
    #810898 - 08/11/02 11:47 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Are psilocybe mushrooms a conscious entity that can communicate with us?



Communicate with mushrooms?
Absolutely yes
Certainly not
Maybe
That's a fucking crazy idea



Votes accepted from (12/31/69 05:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll


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InvisiblePeaceful_Nomad
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Registered: 06/23/02
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Swami]
    #810923 - 08/11/02 12:04 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

In reply to:

As psilocybin can be produced in a lab and have the same effect as a mushroom trip, that shoots down the "alien life form communicating through our nervous system" as well as the ridiculous "mushrooms choose people" hypothesis, as the lab-produced molecule did not come from a living organism.





as the lab-produced molecule did not come from a living organism

Everything is living if you view life from an atomic and sub-atomic standpoint. The
makeup of life as we know it on Earth is merely differentiated by molecular
structure. EVERYTHING is made up from atoms (electrons, protons
and neutrons) in a constant state of motion. The logical definitions being
repeated in this thread appear to be no different than theologians attempting to
explain life from a spiritual standpoint.

Mankind's intellect, logic, and fear are the barriers to greater understanding of life.
The mushroom (psilocybin) helps to lower said barriers. In essence. I maintain
the universe exists within each and every being. The more humanity begins to
explore the inner universe, without judgment and fear, the more we will be
able to understand the outer universe we all share (with ALL life).

Peace to Everyone,

Peaceful Nomad


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Peaceful_Nomad]
    #811067 - 08/11/02 01:24 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Everything is living if you view life from an atomic and sub-atomic standpoint.

Good point.

And I voted "Maybe". I'm not restricting communication to just mushrooms, neither. I think it's possible to communicate with all life, whether it's a tree, mushroom, or animal.


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Anonymous

Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Swami]
    #811143 - 08/11/02 02:19 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

But what if the organism created the molecule for the purposes of communication?

(I knew this fallacious "message in a bottle" would rear its ugly head.)

Well, you are the prescient one, aren't you?

Seriously, the fact that a standard, or common if you prefer, premise would arise in a debate is not anything unusual. Just as I would expect a reductionistic answer to the question. These ideas have been debated before I assume. Fallacious? Ugly head? Yes, well your rhetoric is amusing if that is what you intended (not risibly though). Is the argument fallacious? Let's find out shall we? Ugly is only a preferential term and gives no weight to your argument.

As DMT creates even more powerful imagery than psilocybin and is contained in humans as well as thousands of plant species, who is sending a message to whom?

That's a good question. But as we are talking about mushrooms it only has a small bearing to the issue at hand. It could be related or not.


The fact that we can use electrons to communicate with has little to do with their being.

The electrons are secondary to the patterning. We can use morse code, light waves, semaphore or smoke signals, but there is an encoded message.

Yes, that's a good point. However, it might not be as simple as that.

I'll make my main points to Sclorch and it might give us a few more things to discuss. I really want your opinions on this.

Cheers,


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