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Re: Drug Legality Poll *DELETED* [Re: Gumby]
    #7937147 -

Post deleted by KrishnaDreamer

Reason for deletion: poop



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Everybody's a ninja...

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Re: Drug Poll [Re: Caribou_Lou]
    #7937157 -

That makes no sence since while its illegal everyone has Easyer access.

NORML.com has studies on that.


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Sid and Mr. Madhat <part one> A story by Cubie P. Cubensis
<> I WANNA SMOKE THIS BOWL <> <A comic by Cubie P. Cubensis>

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Gumby]
    #7937170 -

But a lot of the people addicted to drugs don't want treatment.

So what? Who the fuck are you (or anyone else) to force treatment on someone who doesn't want it?

I resent the fact that you toss me in to the "american sheeple." I'm a pretty informed and educated guy.

Raaiigghht. This must be why you erroneously think:

Quote:
This [decriminalization] is also likely to cause horrible economic problems.


just like DARE, George Bush, and the local church want you to think.

Nevermind that it costs some $30,000 a year to lock up a non-violent drug offender and a fraction of that to treat him (or leave him the fuck alone) instead. :shake:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: SleepyF0x]
    #7937185 -

KrishnaDreamer said:
fuck cops, if you want something done right- do it yourself. drug legalization does not equal the entire populace strung out on drugs. if there are corrupt cops and criminals, form a local militia and deal with the problems, that way you know there is no corruption unless you yourself are corrupt. your the one sitting there watching things go in the shit. also, like said above, drug illegality does not deter people from using drugs, and it puts impure substances on the street, overpriced, gangs/violence etc. tell you what, if drugs were legal and cheap people wouldn't be out stealing shit to get their fix. they'd most likely get a job and have multiple fixes, blame the users, not the drugs. not all drug users are dirty criminals.


Oh, alright... seeing how forming a militia is a viable option. :rolleyes:


What about the underground trade of benzodiazepines and prescription opiates? Sure, they're not legalized for recreational use, but even if they were there is still the incentive of money. Unless legal retailers could match or even come close to the price on the streets, underground trade will never go away. If underground trade exists, crime follows.

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Gumby]
    #7937199 -

Unless legal retailers could match or even come close to the price on the streets

They can. Your brainwashing is showing once again.

An oxycontin pill that goes for $50 on the street is manufactured for about 25 cents. A recreational drug industry could mark that up 10,000%, tax it at another 500%, make a hefty profit, pay for addict treatment through the tax, and STILL be far cheaper than what the drug gangs get for the same pill.

C'mon man, the only reason there is an underground of people willing to risk 20 years in prison for selling oxycontin pills is because they can make more money in a week than most of us make working for a year.

And by the way, a "pretty informed and educated guy" would already know this. A sheeple who gets his information from DARE propaganda wouldn't. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Gumby]
    #7937244 -

it might not be viable right now, but trust me, if enough people are starting to get pissed, it'll happen.

how else are you going to overthrow a corrupt government? mob rules.


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Everybody's a ninja...

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
    #7937262 -

Quote:
But a lot of the people addicted to drugs don't want treatment.

So what? Who the fuck are you (or anyone else) to force treatment on someone who doesn't want it?


I know it's not my job to enforce their treatment. How do youthink that legalizing addictive drugs will not lead to more addictions? Just like you can't force an addict into treatment, you can't force a person to become educated about the drug they are using.


Quote:
I resent the fact that you toss me in to the "american sheeple." I'm a pretty informed and educated guy.
Raaiigghht. This must be why you erroneously think:
Quote:
This [decriminalization] is also likely to cause horrible economic problems.


just like DARE, George Bush, and the local church want you to think.

Nevermind that it costs some $30,000 a year to lock up a non-violent drug offender and a fraction of that to treat him. :shake:


Alright, I'll admit it. I didn't think that one out. Compared to the current cost of the War On Drugs, the cost of the economic problems caused by the legalization of all drugs probably pales in comparison to the cost of the "war." I'll admit it, I'm ignorant to the economic figures in this argument. Fill me in, please. I'm being honest, not sarcastic.

But what about large-scale social problems that the legalization will cause?

Also, it's stupid to lock up nonviolent drug offenders. I can't stand that people who are using drugs and not doing any harm to other people are locked up. But what about the drugs that are typically linked to crime like crack, heroin, and meth. Will the crime really disappear when they become legal? If so, why? Of course I have to ask (and you haven't answered me yet): have you lived amongst any of these addicts I speak of?

Diploid: please don't be defensive or judgmental on this, this is an honest conversation and I'm willing to be informed where I am wrong. I just hope that you can see this though the eyes of someone who lives at the heart of a failed War On Drugs. Running into people who are complete slaves to a drug changes your aspect on life. It's almost as if these addicts are not even people anymore, just a human shell of a body that is fueled by addiction. I'd hate to see more Americans following that same path. It's really horrible.

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Gumby]
    #7937266 -

dude, you know how easy and cheap it is to manufacture drugs?

Quote:
But what about the drugs that are typically linked to crime like crack, heroin, and meth. Will the crime really disappear when they become legal? If so, why? Of course I have to ask (and you haven't answered me yet): have you lived amongst any of these addicts I speak of?


you think that just because people use crack, heroin and meth, that they're all criminals?

first of all, there needs to be drug education. drugs will be legal, but crimes will not, what kinds of crimes will these drug users do, that normal criminals don't? criminals are criminals whether they use drugs or not.


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Everybody's a ninja...

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Gumby]
    #7937277 -

Diploid: please don't be defensive or judgmental on this

How could I not get defensive when someone wants to lock me up for minding my own business? And judgmental? That's you prohibitionist's job.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
    #7937294 -

How do youthink that legalizing addictive drugs will not lead to more addictions?

For the most part, the people who are going to get addicted already are. And they will be whether drugs are legal or not.

There may be a spike in new addictions from curious people if/when drugs were legalized, but that wouldn't persist. The people who want drugs can ALREADY GET THEM. Legality wouldn't change that. Legality would only prevent kids from getting drugs from dealers who don't check ID, and it would save the country billions of dollars that would be better spent locking up REAL criminals.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
    #7937297 -

Quote:
And by the way, a "pretty informed and educated guy" would already know this. A sheeple who gets his information from DARE propaganda wouldn't. :shrug:



Oxycontin for $50 bucks? Where did you get that number? The most I've ever heard of is in the range of $10-15 per pill.

Perhaps I'm not as educated on The War On Drugs as I'd like to think I am. I thought I was, but apparently not. Does my logic at least make sense to you, aside from Bush, DARE, and all other sources of bullshit propaganda that I don't support?

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Gumby]
    #7937301 -

Where did you get that number?

Uhm, from the guy I get them from.

And from the Department of Justice:

http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs/651/abuse.htm

The most I've ever heard of is in the range of $10-15 per pill.

For 7.5mg oxycodone mixed with 500mg of fucking liver-killing APAP (Tylenol mixed in for the sole purpose of vindictively hurting addicts), yes. Shitty pills go for shitty money.

But for 80mg pills of pure oxycodone, $50 a pill is the going rate. Check your facts.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
    #7937383 -

Diploid said:
Diploid: please don't be defensive or judgmental on this

How could I not get defensive when someone wants to lock me up for minding my own business?


I'm not trying to lock you up, man. I'm just worried about what highly addictive drugs will do in the hands of the American public. I base a lot of my opinions on first hand experience.

Sure, there actually ARE occasional users of crack or meth, I know a few. However, the majority of people I know who tried these drugs fell into a hopeless addiction. Their personalties changed with continued drug usage. Motivation for scoring more another high took over their mind when they started to crash. No, this isn't DARE propaganda, this is my friends going down the shitter right before my eyes.

A friend who was one of the most honest people I knew stole someone's car keys (and consequently, car) without their consent to go buy more crack. I dated a girl for a year who was a full blown coke addict. I saw her go from "it's just fun at parties" to an addict that would steal money from her mother to buy more blow. Aside from that, I see crackheads every time I go outside. I can't help but wonder what their lives would be like if they would have never tried crack.

I guess you can call me biased based on my experiences. :shrug: I think some first hand experience is beneficial when you're reading studies that only cite numbers and trends. Diploid, I know you are a scientist at heart, as am I. But sometimes you have to step outside the figures and data to see things in the real world. I'm not sure how empathetic you are, but real-world experience definitely changed my opinion on legalizing all drugs.

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Gumby]
    #7937407 -

I'm just worried about what highly addictive drugs will do in the hands of the American public.

What you're missing is that those drugs are ALREADY in the hands of those inclined to do them. The only thing prohibition does is lock up non-violent drug users who just want to be left alone, and it give kids access to drug dealers who don't give a fuck about who they sell to.

A friend who was one of the most honest people I knew stole

So lock the fucker up and throw away the key. Incarcerate those who hurt others, not those who hurt themselves. Drug use crimes are victim-less crimes, just like prostitution.

However, the majority of people I know who tried these drugs fell into a hopeless addiction.

Again, prohibition does not and never has stopped this. And it's not the government's job to play nanny to adults making stoopid decisions. Leave us alone!

I don't force you to stop eating fatty, harmful foods like pizza. Stop trying to force me to stop using harmful drugs. That decision is for ME to make.

It's MY body to abuse as I see fit.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Diploid]
    #7937425 -

I see where you are coming from... But when was the last time you heard of someone sucking dick for a cheeseburger?

Out of curiosity, does data exist for alcoholism rates during/after prohibition. How about underage abuse? I'd be interested in seeing the results. Not trying to prove anything here, just want to know if the data exists.

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Gumby]
    #7937456 -

If cheeseburgers were illegal you'd bet your ass someone would suck a dick for a cheeseburger. or they would turn to other drugs (PIZZA)

alcoholism - look at al capone, murder, bootlegging, bathtub gin.

point is if someone wants to use drugs they will use them regardless. all your doing is restricting freedom.


--------------------
Everybody's a ninja...

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Gumby]
    #7937665 -

Legalize every drug & let anyone 21 yrs old or more purchase whatever they like at either drug stores [duh] or liquor stores. Personally, I've been a non-drinker for 8 yrs now after being a drunken bastid for 25+ yrs.
Just think how legalizing everything would ruin gang revenue, free-up prison space for rapists, child molesters, murderers, etc & the govt could tax the hell out of the drugs...making lotsa $$$ for helping homeless families & hungry children.


--------------------

Enjoy Life. It has an expiration date.

When I die, I want my last words to be...
"I left a million dollars under the..." :bigblunt:

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: squidhead]
    #7938054 -

What I don't understand is why people are arguing at all for partial legalization. Essentially, this is the system we're all living with and hating right now. People whose drug of choice is alcohol are free to buy, use, and enjoy their substance any time after their 21st birthday, while the rest of us are arrested merely for possessing our drug(s).

The real problem with this whole system is that people still want the illegal drugs. I remember seeing a speech from a member of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP) a while ago, and one of his statements really stuck with me. "People ask me sometimes what drugs should be made legal. I tell them that whatever drugs you want people selling on the streets should be illegal, and the rest should be legal." Not an exact quote, of course, but I believe it captured the spirit.

So why should we be forced to go through illegal, and possibly dangerous, channels to get our drugs? Why not produce them legally, regulate, label, and tax them?

I really don't understand why the norm for the entire fucking world right now is prohibition.


--------------------
* That Guy *

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: Gumby]
    #7938635 -

Gumby said:
I live in a city plagued by crack and heroin addicts, I see their way of life every time I leave my building. I've seen a crack dealing pimp beating the shit out of his crack addicted prostitute. Do you think the people who conduct these studies have every placed themselves in the environments where addiction hits hardest?


I have seen people ravaged by drugs and other self-destructive behavior. My heart breaks for them. To treat these people with criminal charges is quite unhelpful.

Quote:
Sure studies have been conducted, probably by economists and scientists that live a much better life than those "trapped" in an inner-city environment that feeds drug addiction easily.


^^^ This is a jaded, unfair assumption. There are people on both sides of this issue who have seen the ugliest of the ugly. The only difference between them is their opinion on the best way to respond to drug addiction. Some say criminal charges, public shame, imprisonment is a suitable response. Others believe support, compassion, education and personal responsibility are more helpful approaches to people who are in trouble.

Everyone comes to their own conclusion about how to respond to bad drug-related behavior. In my mind, the response of prohibition stems from feelings of contempt, hatred, and fear. I just can't support a public policy that meets addiction with punishment, particularly when it sweeps everyone who uses drugs responsibly down with them into prison.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Drug Legality Poll [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7938643 -

Good Evening, Whiskey.

Hope all is well with you.

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