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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #730097 -

Yes but rattlesnake venom doesn't occur naturally in the human brain.

Though this thread is about DMT, many people claim similar visions from psilocybin; also not native to the human brain. So your point is...?




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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #730120 -

Strange, Maria Sabina was reporting contacting the spirits the day Wasson met her in 53.
What exactly is strange? It is strange that Maria didn't tell me before I was born?My statement is entirely and unquivocably true. I heard NO reports until the 90s (post "Communion"). Please post the writing from Maria Sabina to which you refer in which she mentions beings from another physical planet.

So now, according to you: spirits = aliens = animal totems = strange entities? Others would add: demons, angels, leprecauns, imps, devils, genies, trolls, etc. Lets just lump every myth together and roll it into one big ball.

There are stones depicting strange entities carved into mushroom stones from 10000 years ago and cave paintings of bee-headed "aliens" holding mushrooms from 3000 years ago.
There is NOTHING in the cave paintings that indicate beings from another star system. PERIOD!


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Swami]
    #730586 -

You could read the new biography of Bill Hicks where it states that in 1987 him and a friend had an alien contact experience on mushrooms so vivid that it permanently changed his world view. As the author says "contact with insectoid intelligence, the "trans-galactic other" as Tom Robbins calls it is a common occurence of high dose psilocybin experiences. 1987...is that pre-Communion?

"There is NOTHING in the cave paintings that indicate beings from another star system. PERIOD! "

Who says aliens have to come from "another star system"? Is that what you've picked up from watching Communion? All I'm saying is that 3000 years ago guys were drawing bee-headed entities on the wall holding handfuls of mushrooms. Coincidence? The simple fact is that high dose psilocybin and DMT puts people in contact with entities/spirits/aliens. The fact that your mates didn't see any because they were face down in the piss trough at the Sammy Hagar concert isn't really important. It is a common feature of the psilocybin experience. DM Turner refers to mushrooms as "the extra-terrestial infiltration of earth" in his guide to psychedelics.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Swami]
    #730589 -

"Though this thread is about DMT, many people claim similar visions from psilocybin; also not native to the human brain. So your point is...?"

As i said in the first post, psilocybin/psilocin are so similar to DMT that they would be treated in exactly the same way by the brains receptors.






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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #730776 -

About the alien reports:
Could it be possible that due to the improving possebilities of communication technologies (like the internet) the reports of alien encounters has increased? Just like you are now more likely to read a party report. It doesnt mean people party more, it means it is more reported. Or the war in Israel. It doesnt mean Israel was in peace the previous centuries.

But, I do think does alien reports are bullshit. I hop around in fairyland when Im tripping, and friends turn into princesses and monkeys. Does this mean the we live in a fairytale and my friends are what I had seen in trips? The clouds are living creatures with enourmous landscapes on their back, and the stars are their eyes? The moon is a scull and I am not more then a floating particle in my own mind? Maybe it does, this world isnt more real those. Only, you dont live in those worlds while sober.



About DMT and stuff:
Well, Ive never taken DMT, do plan to sometime when i think I can handle it, but till then I dont think im capable of figuring out why it works in the way it does.
But, I dont think it works in excectly the same way as mushies. A mushroomtrip is also completely different from a LSD trip, right, though I do asume it is possible to have a similiar hallucination? Ive never taken LSD either, so sorry if im incorrect. But if I am, the only thing that is the same is the fact that your tripping.

And the similiarty (sp?) of a substance doesnt mean its the same. Serotin only differs one atom from psylocybine (or psylocybe) and I think the same thing counts for LSD and even DMT, but I could be wrong here.


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its all placebo

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #730796 -

"One can have visions off of rattlesnake venom yet this effect has nothing to do with its primary purpose.""

"Yes, but rattlesnake venom doesn't occur naturally in the human brain."
"Yes, but psilocybin doesn't occur naturally in the human brain."

Doesn't matter that psilocybin is similar to DMT, it is NOT endogenous to the human body. Millions of chemicals are similar to ones that are in the human body, yet are NOT native. You used one point in an earlier argument. When I point out your flaw, you do the typical dance around. Please attempt to be cohesive and consistent.

As i said in the first post, psilocybin/psilocin are so similar to DMT that they would be treated in exactly the same way by the brains receptors.
Not true. I would wager a large sum of money on this.







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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (07/08/02 01:38 PM)

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #730817 -

1987...is that pre-Communion?
No, it's AFTER. Its also NOT the Maria Sabina report that you mentioned. Once again, please reference it.

"There is NOTHING in the cave paintings that indicate beings from another star system. PERIOD! "
Who says aliens have to come from "another star system"?
Almost all of the alien fans on this board. Alien means "NOT NATIVE" - "FROM ANOTHER LAND".

All I'm saying is that 3000 years ago guys were drawing bee-headed entities on the wall holding handfuls of mushrooms. Coincidence?
Coincidence with what? Primitives frequently drew animal totems.

The simple fact is that high dose psilocybin and DMT puts people in contact with entities/spirits/aliens.
This is poor argumentative technique. It is neither simple, nor a fact.

The fact that your mates didn't see any because they were face down in the piss trough at the Sammy Hagar concert isn't really important.
Everyone that I ever knew that tripped over a 30 year period was drunk at a Sammy Hagar concert? Huh? You sure know how to strengthen your case.

It is a common feature of the psilocybin experience. DM Turner refers to mushrooms as "the extra-terrestial infiltration of earth" in his guide to psychedelics.
And DM Turner who overdosed on ketamine and drowned in his bathtub also is supposed to strengthen your case? Another sterling researcher down the drain - so to speak.



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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Swami]
    #731334 -

As i said in the first post, psilocybin/psilocin are so similar to DMT that they would be treated in exactly the same way by the brains receptors.
Not true. I would wager a large sum of money on this.

Well, I'm afraid you'd lose. You think that brain receptors are so tuned as to reject an atom with one oxygen difference? If the psilocin was approaching the receptor at a particular spatial orientation it would be absolutely indistinguishable from DMT.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Swami]
    #731345 -

Coincidence with what? Primitives frequently drew animal totems.

It has a bee's head with a mans body holding mushrooms. I've never seen an animal like that in my neighbourhood. You really need to see it before you can comment.

"It is neither simple, nor a fact."

Yes it is.

"Everyone that I ever knew that tripped over a 30 year period was drunk at a Sammy Hagar concert? Huh? You sure know how to strengthen your case."

We are talking about mushrooms/DMT here. Not everyone you knew who has tripped. Clearly for many people the alien experience occurs. It hasn't occured to you, too bad.

"And DM Turner who overdosed on ketamine and drowned in his bathtub also is supposed to strengthen your case? Another sterling researcher down the drain - so to speak"

DM Turner committed suicide. Real classy of you to laugh at him.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

Edited by Alex123 (07/08/02 11:04 AM)

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #731432 -

You think that brain receptors are so tuned as to reject an atom with one oxygen difference?
This can very well affect the affinity of the molecule to the receptor. It changes the chemical reactivity of the molecule.

If the psilocin was approaching the receptor at a particular spatial orientation it would be absolutely indistinguishable from DMT.
It's not spatial orientation. It's chemical reactions and attractions.

By your logic Carbon Monoxide and Carbon Dioxide should work the same in the human body. This is not true.

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #731448 -

I can't be arsed contributing to this conversation but...

>You think that brain receptors are so tuned as to reject an atom with one oxygen difference?

...yes, they are, and there are many of examples which could illustrate this. It's late, i'm tired and i have to go to bed 'cause i have a busy day tomorrow so i can't be bothered looking through textbooks/ journals for an example which illustrates this and i can't remember one off the top of my head but if you'd rather not take my word for it i can find you at least one concrete example in a couple of days or so when my life's a little less hectic

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: NeiL]
    #731458 -

...i thought D.M.Turner died by accident? Just what i read....

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: NeiL]
    #731478 -

i just thought...

an easier way maybe of thinking about why psilocybin and DMT might affect whatever receptors potentialy very differently is that, although the receptors themselves are much much larger than the drug molecules, the sites that the drug molecules actually bind to on the receptors are tiny compared to the total size of the receptor and are on the the same sort of scale as the drug molecules.
So, what seems like a tiny difference (e.g. one oxygen molecule) is actually a huge huge difference in the size and shape of the drug molecule on that sort of tiny tiny scale.

...er it seems like i've accidently started contributing to this conversation

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #731651 -

It has a bee's head with a mans body holding mushrooms. I've never seen an animal like that in my neighbourhood. You really need to see it before you can comment.
I HAVE seen it and don't come to the same conclusion that you do. Have also seen unusual African, and Indian masks and headdresses. Without a cultural reference point it is almost impossible to know what a man thousands of years ago was trying to communicate.

It would be as if modern Western culture was wiped out and then in some vault a 1000 years from now, they found a slew of halloween masks (Aliens, Vampires, Ghouls, etc.) and tried to figure out what we meant - Impossible!


DM Turner committed suicide. Real classy of you to laugh at him.
Am not laughing at him. I am highly empathetic to another's pain. Worked the Suicide Prevention Hotline for 6 months some 5 years back and don't take it lightly.

However, you use the writings of an unstable mind to reinforce your stance. It doesn't mean that he was wrong, but surely makes his conclusions highly suspect, don't you agree?


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (07/08/02 01:49 PM)

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #731662 -

Still waiting for the Maria Sabina reference.

Still waiting for the public wager.

*sigh* Can none stand up to scrutiny? Who can handle the MIGHTY Swami in a straight debate?



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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Swami]
    #731671 -

Still waiting for the Maria Sabina reference.

Still waiting for the public wager.

*sigh* Can none stand up to scrutiny? Who can handle the MIGHTY Swami in a straight debate?


Wow......issues



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Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Swami]
    #731773 -

would be as if modern Western culture was wiped out and then in some vault a 1000 years from now, they found a slew of halloween masks (Aliens, Vampires, Ghouls, etc.) and tried to figure out what we meant - Impossible!

Totally true.


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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
    #731896 -

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/m.hurley/

Just thought I'd toss this link in.


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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Swami]
    #732287 -

Still waiting for the Maria Sabina reference.

Have you ever read any Maria Sabina? Do you know even the basics of what a curanda does? That their whole reason for being is to contact the spirits? You really don't know that? Then why are you posting at a mushroom board?

"*sigh* Can none stand up to scrutiny? Who can handle the MIGHTY Swami in a straight debate?"

However many psychdelics you took it wasn't enough. You sound incredibly pompous. Your "arguments" have been comprehensively destroyed and still you moan. It was you laid face down in the piss trough at the sammy hagar concert wasn't it...


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #732350 -

Do you know even the basics of what a curanda does? That their whole reason for being is to contact the spirits? You really don't know that? Then why are you posting at a mushroom board?
Everyone whip out their curandera doctorate before posting please.

Spirits usually refers to dead ancestors who visit to help, not fat-headed creatures from the Outer Limits.

Where is her alien reference, please?

However many psychdelics you took it wasn't enough.
Guess not, that's why I am still here. However you could send your stash to me at :

The "Get Swami Ripped" Foundation
P.O. Box 1345
Boulder, CO 75125

Youre donations ARE tax deductible.

You sound incredibly pompous.
The usual jumping to conclusions. How quickly you rise to the bait...

Your "arguments" have been comprehensively destroyed and still you moan.
That's why you duck my bet.

It was you laid face down in the piss trough at the sammy hagar concert wasn't it...
Please get your temporal viewing ability realigned, you are looking in the wrong sector.



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The proof is in the pudding.

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