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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Alien Music?
    #1822819 - 08/17/03 03:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Some misguided friend of mine was trying to convince me that earth was the only planet in the universe that had music.

His arguement: We live in a unique situation where soundwaves are able to travel through air and we have evolved a unique way to take advantage of that. He further argued that all rythm is based on biological things like the heartbeat and geometry in the body, and all theory is based in human logic. Then, he concleded that a sentient lifeform evolving in different circumstances would be very unlikely to develop a concept similar to human music.

Basically, he thought these things proved that only humans have music. I think they only proved that alien music would be radically different from ours. We might not even be able to percieve it if we were in the same room.

I also believe that the mathematics in our body which cause us to express ourselves certain ways are present anywhere and everywhere in the universe, from a grain of earth sand or a different spiral galaxy far away. I wouldn't be surprised if aliens were using the same scales and rythms as us.

Anyway, what do you guys think about the whole "alien/ different terms of evolution" thing? Is it plausible that a lifeform evolving in completly different circumstances might develop completly different senses and modes of expression than ours? What about things like logic and religion? Do you think alien races' thinking would all be radically different or all point the same direction?


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineDeiymiyan
I AM

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: Alien Music? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1822886 - 08/17/03 03:43 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

"Some misguided friend of mine was trying to convince me that earth was the only planet in the universe that had music.

His arguement: We live in a unique situation where soundwaves are able to travel through air and we have evolved a unique way to take advantage of that.."
------------------------


Well...  Air is NOT the ONLY medium through which waves become transmitted.

If that was, in fact, true, then you wouldn't experience the BASS comming from the lower appartment that is having the party you weren't invited to...  :lol:

Sound also travels quite well in water, for example..

Our "situation" is not as unique as your friend claims..




But in SPACE,  noone can hear you SCREAM !!! 


AAAAAAAaaaaaaaahhhhhHHHHhhhhhhh !!!!!


:lipsrsealed:


 


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: Alien Music? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1822887 - 08/17/03 03:43 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

There's a grey area between music and "sounds of nature" in my opinion..

If a planet has life that makes noise; it could be considered music


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
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Re: Alien Music? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1822968 - 08/17/03 04:09 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, also any planet with an atmosphere and air can produce sound therefore the life forms in the planet evolving to take advantege of it. So why wouldnt they be able to easily grasp the consept of consecative sound making a rythim that sounds good, i do agree that what might sound good to them might sound like a cat in a garbege can to us (or vise-versa.) But i think the concept of music is not far behing the concept of the wheel or fire.


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male

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Re: Alien Music? [Re: Spokesman]
    #1823026 - 08/17/03 04:24 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Spokesman said:
i do agree that what might sound good to them might sound like a cat in a garbege can to us (or vise-versa.)




Yeah, I am sure that there are some people that think music that I like sounds like a cat in a garbage can... and definitely inspired by no less than Satan himself, too..

And, if the aliens need a new bass player, I'm there (but they'll have to go to Iowa and pick up my bass for me). I'm willing to partake in creative new oppurtunities....
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
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Re: Alien Music? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1823046 - 08/17/03 04:30 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

It'll be cool landing a decent record deal in na nother planet.... hmmm


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

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Re: Alien Music? [Re: Spokesman]
    #1823073 - 08/17/03 04:37 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

As long as they hooked me up with the hot alien groupies and all those crazy alien drugs.. you know, the ones where you become the Creator of Earth, and can do anything you want to this place.. I understand that this is why our God is sometimes nice, and sometimes not so nice.. just depends on the drug fiends in the alien world, and their intentions...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Alien Music? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1823089 - 08/17/03 04:40 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Cool, i bet you them aliens can grow some real crazy stuff on there soil and atmosphere, mabey we can get a smuggling deal going on, THE GALACTIC DRUG LORDS........................................!!!


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male

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Re: Alien Music? [Re: Spokesman]
    #1823154 - 08/17/03 05:00 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

They could teleport it to my bedroom.. hehe. But, that gets me thinking, why would they be interested in our money? They should just let me do it all...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Alien Music? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1823238 - 08/17/03 05:27 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
, why would they be interested in our money? .




Hey, we'll just introduce them to crack or heroin, the they'll really be coming back to trade......lol , Well be like "hey, its the best we came up wit so far"


--------------------


Edited by Spokesman (08/17/03 05:29 PM)


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InvisibleXochitl
synchronicitycircuit
Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,241
Loc: the brainforest
Re: Alien Music? [Re: Spokesman]
    #1823276 - 08/17/03 05:38 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

here, listen to the plant music.

an ayahuasca icaro from the peruvian amazon.

Enjoy friends!


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon


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OfflineBlastrid
e l e m e n t al i t y
 User Gallery

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Re: Alien Music? [Re: Xochitl]
    #1823582 - 08/17/03 07:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Well, music, and art in general, is a direct expression of culture.
This is obvious because vastly different cultures have vastly different styles of music, even music theory.
But because physics is the same across the planet, means of making music is similar, friction between string and string, air and hole, etc...

But, just as creatures on this planet perceive different sonic ranges, creatures elsewhere might as well. And with different cultures, different perceptions, and different environments, such an art would be very different than human music. But as long as they can hear, they can, and will, make music.
Obviously, this could never be more than hypothetical...

I'd argue against strongly that music is a uniquely human thing. It's too much of an expression just as art or acting is. It is true that rhythm is based off of a sort of sacred given geometry, but other being have the same uniquely sacred geometry. As for us living in a unique situation, how could he come to that conclusion? There could be an infinite number of distant planets with just the same circumstances-same distance from a star, creating a flourishing carbon-based environment with H2O and oxygen... well, unless he's seen every planet in the universe.

Sound could not be uniquely human, therefore neither is music. Music is just arrangement of sound.


--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Alien Music? [Re: Blastrid]
    #1823975 - 08/17/03 09:30 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

"different cultures have vastly different styles of music, even music theory."

You know its funny that the chinese and the Native American composition and scale usage remained very similar despite the fact that the native americans were cut off from china by rising seas shortly after they emigrated to North America.

The Native Americans lifestyles, religion, even their language all changed from their chinese ancestors, but they way they composed music remained the same.

evidence like this suggest that music is a more universally unified communication than verbal or written language.

"Sound could not be uniquely human, therefore neither is music. Music is just arrangement of sound. "

But who is to say that an alien species would thnik it important to purposefully arrange sounds in a manner that is aesthetically pleasing? Maybe their own set of unique circumstances would drive them to express themselves in completely different ways.

BTW, I agree with you, I'm just playin devils ad.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


Edited by DoctorJ (08/17/03 09:35 PM)


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: Alien Music? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1823993 - 08/17/03 09:34 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

"music is a more universally unified communication than verbal or written language."

I agree completely :smile: what bugs me is that nowadays a song won't get very much attention unless it has verbal language in it.. generally-speaking, that is.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (08/17/03 09:35 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Alien Music? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1824326 - 08/17/03 11:33 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

There's a grey area between music and "sounds of nature" in my opinion..

I find it humorous when people say that birds are "singing". The calls are usually warnings for other birds to stay away from their tree or for attracting a mate; not because they are happy that the sun is coming up.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Alien Music? [Re: Swami]
    #1824338 - 08/17/03 11:37 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I find it humorous when people say that birds are "singing". The calls are usually warnings for other birds to stay away from their tree or for attracting a mate; not because they are happy that the sun is coming up.



Hmmm, sounds like you're describing hip hop - gansta rap type music.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflineTavarua
A Nobody

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Re: Alien Music? [Re: Autonomous]
    #1824743 - 08/18/03 02:05 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

lol


--------------------
Gotta love life cuz life be lovin me


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male

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Re: Alien Music? [Re: Spokesman]
    #1825160 - 08/18/03 05:27 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Spokesman said:
Hey, we'll just introduce them to crack or heroin, the they'll really be coming back to trade......lol , Well be like "hey, its the best we came up wit so far"





I think I'd rather share with them mushrooms, marijuana, DMT, etc.. The one alien would hit the other in the arm and yell "Hey man! Remember history class! These are the sacred catalysts, the one that brought on our evoultion to where we are today!"

The other one would be like "Oh yeah, I remember taking notes on that.. you can only find them in museums on our planet, and they don't even let you eat them... we'll definitely trade with you!"

I'd be like, "Nah, as long as you drop off some of your drugs every so often, I'll show you how you can grow these on your own, just check out http://www.shroomery.org. Hehe, you could use the Alien Tek..."

But yeah, anyways..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
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Re: Alien Music? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1825175 - 08/18/03 05:36 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think music requires a planet with air. Any life-form that has sense organs that perform spectrum analysis on a signal (like our ears do) will be able to directly perceive harmonic wave combinations. The signal doesn't have to be pressure waves in air, it could be radio waves or surface waves on a liquid or something else.

Harmonies and rythms would likely be familiar concepts for intelligent aliens. But melodies and scales might be meaningless for them, or they may have similar things but with rules different from ours. And to think that they would use music for entertainment like we do, is a huge assumption. Maybe they think music is just a boring phenomenon that they use to locate their food, or for some purpose we can't even imagine.

I believe there are some forms of thought that any intelligent alien would share with us, and those include at least some mathematics and some physics and chemistry. Probably even some philosophy, although it might be very hard to identify which pieces of their world of thoughts are the ones that correspond to ours, since the common reference points may be very few.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

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Re: Alien Music? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1825178 - 08/18/03 05:38 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I have been thinking about the vast difference in different kinds of music only on this planet.. we have distorted guitar speed fests, synopcated bass beats, tribal drums, entirely synthesized music, choirs, symphonys.. And music theory from here to there is quite different... the Indian music divides notes into quarter steps, while over here in the West, the smallest increment of difference is half steps.

So, we have C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B, and C again, and the increments here are half steps, they have quarter steps, which I feel makes the range for expression that much more, since there are so much more possibilites.. this is why vibratos and bends are so expresive, since they cover all the semitones in between the main notes, so to speak.. Trance music has that ability to sound spectacular, too, since they do a lot of phases and flanges, which takes the notes through the entire range of frequencies between the main notes themselves...

I have sort of experimented with quarter steps on my bass before. The strings on a bass are so big that it allows you to be able to fret em anywhere, not just where there is an actual fret, so I have put em down half way in between frets to get the quarter step thing going on... I guess there is a guitar that has additional frets in certain places so that certain quarter steps widely used in Indian music can be fretted..

Anyways, the possibilites of expressing yourself in music are infinite... I once heard about a band that only play PVC pipes and have a bass drum that is almost the size of a house.. hehe
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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