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 Mixomatosis
great ape
Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
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 Re: DMT - Any theories?  [Re: Infrared]
#2220694 - 01/05/04 01:55 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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when dmt is used with an maoi orally it becomes very very similar to a 4-ho-dmt experience.
um.. nope
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Infrared
sleeping
 
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 12,988
Loc: Chicago, USA
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Mixomatosis]
#2220697 - 01/05/04 01:58 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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ummm, yea. have you taken both freebase dmt and oral dmt? and 5meodmt and 5-hodmt and 4-ho-dmt?
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When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
#2220705 - 01/05/04 02:00 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is a bit like somebody saying "Beer is just like whisky" and somebody else saying "no its not, its nothing like it."
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Always Smi2le
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Mixomatosis
great ape
Registered: 10/28/03
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Loc: cipherland
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Infrared]
#2220707 - 01/05/04 02:02 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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yes
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Infrared
sleeping
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 12,988
Loc: Chicago, USA
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Mixomatosis]
#2220714 - 01/05/04 02:05 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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eat 7 grams of shrooms or drink a cup of aya. if you say they are not similar at all then you have problems. they are obviously very similar, and obviously not identical, obviously obviosuly
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When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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Mixomatosis
great ape
Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Infrared]
#2220729 - 01/05/04 02:12 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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There's a 5 minute overlap between very high mushroom doses especially with mao inhibitors to a threshold dose of ayahuasca. Are they similiar? No. The word "trip" suits mushrooms, but it doesn't suit ayahuasca. If someone asked me what ayahuasca was like, I would not say anything like "it's kinda like mushrooms." That would be very misleading. fin
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Infrared
sleeping
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 12,988
Loc: Chicago, USA
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Mixomatosis]
#2220745 - 01/05/04 02:19 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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"Are they similiar? No. The word "trip" suits mushrooms, but it doesn't suit ayahuasca. If someone asked me what ayahuasca was like, I would not say anything like "it's kinda like mushrooms." That would be very misleading. fin"
thats like saying hydrocodeine is absolutely nothing like codeine
so what would you call it? magical fairy train to dream land? "tripping" is just a broad term used for all pyschedelics. out of all drugs which would ayahuasca be closest too?? HMmmm, let me think, this is tough
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When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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 Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
#2220750 - 01/05/04 02:21 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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NOWHERE ON PAGE 37 (the page YOU gave as a source) DOES STRASSMAN STATE (as you claim) "I like to think of psilocybin/psilocin as 'orally active DMT.'"
Strange because I've got my original copy right here in front of me and it says precisely that on page 37.
It's in the section where he has a picture of each molecule if you can't find it.
Furthermore, even IF Strassman did indeed write that in his book
There's no "IF" about it.
it DOES NOT mean that psiloc(yb)in is equivalent with DMT
He says he likes to think of psilocin as orally active DMT. What does that statement imply? Here's a clue - that PSILOCIN IS LIKE DMT. If psilocin WASN'T like DMT he wouldn't have called it orally active DMT would he? For the third time, explain to me the difference in effects on the brain between DMT and orally active DMT.
Jeez.
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PHARMAKOS
addict
Registered: 09/13/02 
Posts: 573
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
#2220935 - 01/05/04 03:35 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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for fucks sakes sclorch
"NOWHERE ON PAGE 37 (the page YOU gave as a source) DOES STRASSMAN STATE (as you claim) "I like to think of psilocybin/psilocin as 'orally active DMT.'"
how can you still say that? someone even took the time to post the page in its entirety for you to look at , and yet you still say this? and you say you have the book on your shelf but your not going to look at it? he already told you the page number is fucking 37! did you just skip all the last 15 posts or what?
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pattern
multiplayer
Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
#2221261 - 01/05/04 06:02 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Maybe they have different copies of the book.
In my copy, on page 37, it says:
"Psilocin differs from DMT by only one oxygen. I like to think of psilocybin/psilocin as 'orally active DMT'."
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man = monkey + mushroom
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
#2221263 - 01/05/04 06:03 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Okay kids...
I was just being a bitch and wondering if anyone actually READ what I wrote.
Take a look at my post above (#2121531):
[PICTURE OF A PSILOCIN MOLECULE]
___Psilocin differs from DMT by only one oxygen. I like to think of psilocybin/psilocin as "orally active DMT."
Then look at my last post (#2220671):
Nowhere on page 37 or in the rest of the book does Strassman state that "Psilocybin is practically identical to DMT and effects the brain's chemistry in exactly the same way."
Okay, this was a simple switcharoo... and not ONE person caught it.
The original argument between Alex and I was over his claim that "psilocybin/psilocin are so similar to DMT that they would be treated in exactly the same way by the brains receptors" (see post #731334).
Now THIS is what my point is:
Psiloc(yb)in is NOT equivalent to DMT.
Similar? Yes, but Strassman's statement should be viewed more like a rule of thumb rather than a biological fact. This furthers the unlikelihood of Strassman lying about his never having a psychedelic experience - which, I think, would limit his ability to understand any possible difference between the two drugs.
Read closer next time guys...
 @ Alex
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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psychopsilocyber
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 1,020
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
#2221415 - 01/05/04 07:16 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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So obviously it's going to be very hard to form a common believe system here in this forum, because that's as far as things could go. No matter what is said in this thread nothing is going to be scientifically significant, we can only discuss what researchers have learned, and we can barely discuss that.
So the only way anyones going to learn anything that mass people will believe as true fact would be if DMT were legal, and many studies were done. So unless anyone has an eeg machine or can scientifically prove telepathy/amazing things that can happen it's only going to exist in our own minds(and maybe friends).
Really what more can be said on this topic? Oh I know, you suck alex, nothing personal, it seems to be common sense around these parts. Luckily common sense isnt so common, so that may mean you could possibly not be considered a jackass..
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
#2221730 - 01/05/04 09:49 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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I haven't encountered anything I would consider "alien" on DMT.. No elves for me - maybe they just don't like me "dude fuck this guy let's hide when he vaporizes this shit" - definitely see tons of wild shit that looks very energetic but I can't say I've noticed any creatures.
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Strumpling]
#2221801 - 01/05/04 10:24 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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You are NOT one of the chosen. Maybe in your next incarnation if you start believing...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Swami]
#2222267 - 01/06/04 02:39 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm sure I could find elves and gnomes and aliens and spirits and extra-dimensional beings of all sorts if I looked for them.... It seems like one could find a whole spectrum of experiences "in there."
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Strumpling]
#2222287 - 01/06/04 02:53 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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and by the way I feel that DMT is quite different from mushrooms, not just due to the rapidity of the trip.. Even in a brew (taken orally with MAOI), where the length of the trips is similar, there is a difference. That, and the comedown is way lighter and less disorienting for me
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
#2222310 - 01/06/04 03:20 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Okay, this was a simple switcharoo... and not ONE person caught it.
No, I caught it ok sclorch. I didn't mention it because I assumed you're not very bright and pointing your mistake out might embarrass you.
Psiloc(yb)in is NOT equivalent to DMT
Well, for the fourth time can you give us the difference in how DMT and orally active DMT affects the brain?
which, I think, would limit his ability to understand any possible difference between the two drugs.
Terence Mckenna said mushrooms take you to the same place DMT does but for 4 hours. Has he had enough psychedelic experience to know the difference?
@ Alex
Well, I'm not laughing at you sclorch, I'm pitying you.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
#2222800 - 01/06/04 10:25 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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You and sclorch should "take it outside" or maybe *gasp* trip together...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
#2222826 - 01/06/04 10:38 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Alex: Well, for the fourth time can you give us the difference in how DMT and orally active DMT affects the brain?
This is a loaded question, part of which I thought I made clear that I disagreed with.
from Erowid:
 
From these charts, it is quite clear that the effects are very different (and we're only talking about time, there are also the subjective effects that are much different). If the effects are this different, then how can one posit that the chemicals both work in the exact same manner? It's like saying that Tylenol and aspirin must work in the same manner because they both get rid of your headache, though one takes 15 minutes to kick in and the other takes 30 minutes.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
#2222858 - 01/06/04 10:59 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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So does taking aspirin orally as opposed to injecting or smoking aspirin make it a different drug because it takes longer to reach your brain?
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