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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
DMT - Any theories?
    #724144 - 07/05/02 06:48 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Anyone got any theories as to why DMT should exist in so many places in nature (when it appears to serve no obvious purpose to any living organism), and why one of it's main effects is to contact human beings with what they consider to be aliens?

Is it just coincidence?


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OfflineVision_Quest
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #724779 - 07/05/02 02:36 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I doubt very highly that it is just coincidence.

Dr. Rick Strassmen (I probably got his name wrong) theorizes that DMT is the "spirit molecule." I forget if it was proven that it is released when we die, or if that was part of the theory, but he thinks that DMT is responsible for transporting our consciousness from this life to the next. Makes sense to me.


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OfflineChubbSubb
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Registered: 06/03/02
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #724794 - 07/05/02 02:47 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I have read that DMT starts the brains journey, and also ends it......I don't know if that is true or not, but i do feel DMT is here for us to use it..........check out some Terrance McKenna, he is all bout DMT and has some crazy, but interesting, theories
Peace, Trev


--------------------
Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #725513 - 07/05/02 09:50 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

why one of it's main effects is to contact human beings with what they consider to be aliens

If you don't have any PERSONAL alien experiences via DMT, then should you make such a bold loaded question?

Does no one here know what an archetype is?

Is it a coincidence that the number of (I'll give you this: reported) "alien experiences" has increased so much since the "War of the Worlds" radio phenomenon?

COMPREHEND THIS: These are only questions... NOT statements.


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
    #725729 - 07/06/02 01:50 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Is it a coincidence that the number of (I'll give you this: reported) "alien experiences" has increased so much since the "War of the Worlds" radio phenomenon?

Aliens may be fact or fiction, but reports of them started a good deal of CENTURIES before that broadcast. Just some food for thought, friend


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineNomad
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
    #725816 - 07/06/02 03:55 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

And now to something completely different.

"There is another metaphor. One must balance these explanations. Now I shall sound as if I didn't think the mushroom is an extraterrestrial. It may instead be what I've recently come to suspect - that the human soul is so alienated from us in our present culture that we treat it as an extraterrestrial. (...) Perhaps the flying saucer or UFO is the central motif to be understood in order to get a handle on reality here and now. We are alienated, so alienated that the self must disguise itself as an extraterrestrial in order not to alarm us with the truly bizarre dimensions that it encompasses. When we can love the alien, then we will have begun to heal the psychic discontinuity that has plagued us since at least the sixteenth century, possibly earlier. To us the most alien thing in the cosmos is the human soul."
- Terence McKenna, "Tryptamine Hallucinogens and Consciousness"

When I first read that, it blew my mind. Not so much for what is said, which is nothing new, nor anything very interesting, but because of the guy who actually said it. It simply blows my mind that someone who believed in aliens, who considered the mushroom itself an alien lifeform, someone who used DMT to communicate with strange and very alien machine elves, that someone like this was apparently able to, quite simply and calmly, put forward a perspective like the one above. That speaks of an radical open-mindedness that is very seldom to be found among humans.

So I'll raise my glass here... three cheers to the machine elves!


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OfflineChubbSubb
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Nomad]
    #726025 - 07/06/02 08:27 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Terrance rules!.....


--------------------
Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
    #726048 - 07/06/02 08:42 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Well i've had countless alien experiences on mushrooms which Strassman and Mckenna both consider "orally active DMT" and which would bond to the same receptors in the brain due to it's chemical structure so it does interest me from that point of view.

Before they were called aliens they were called spirits, angels, gods and demons. Nothings changed since the war of the worlds except the name we give them.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #726164 - 07/06/02 10:25 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

shro: Aliens may be fact or fiction, but reports of them started a good deal of CENTURIES before that broadcast. Just some food for thought, friend

Thanks ol' pal, but reports DID NOT start CENTURIES before anything. They're a recent phenomenon. Although there have been numerous jackasses (yeah that was ad hominem... but they deserve it) who have tried to read aliens INTO ancient texts and paintings, there is nothing concrete ANYWHERE that says gray skin/disproportionately large heads/black eyes/small stature/anal probes/implantations/telepathic communication/you-name-it. Don't get too hung up on your own belief systems to look at things objectively.

Alex: Before they were called aliens they were called spirits, angels, gods and demons. Nothings changed since the war of the worlds except the name we give them.

I like how (close-minded) people reinterpret things to better cohere to their belief system, thus, satisfying their egos. You guys would jump all over a "Christian" who states something like "when the Bible says that God created the universe in 7 days, it means 7 God days. So the Big Bang theory wouldn't disprove anything." Now, why should there be a double standard when it comes to "alien sightings/experiences"?


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
    #726333 - 07/06/02 12:39 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Sclorch, there is a lot of opinion in all posts on aliens..so let me ask you a few things about yours...

Thanks ol' pal, but reports DID NOT start CENTURIES before anything. They're a recent phenomenon. Although there have been numerous jackasses (yeah that was ad hominem... but they deserve it) who have tried to read aliens INTO ancient texts and paintings, there is nothing concrete ANYWHERE that says gray skin/disproportionately large heads/black eyes/small stature/anal probes/implantations/telepathic communication/you-name-it. Don't get too hung up on your own belief systems to look at things objectively.

Define what a jackass is?
Define what is concrete evidence is?
Define objectivity?
Define Alien?
All these things are open to interpretation and everyone has, at least, slightly different believes on them...that is what an opinion is.

I think you are only as "hung up" on your beliefs as I am on mine .

People have been reporting the same type of phenomenon for centuries, IMO they are as concrete as they ever were (for better or worse).

Also, please do not assume that just because someone does not see it your way that they are not being objective, I don't assume that of you .


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
    #727346 - 07/06/02 10:11 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Nothing to do with seven god days, it's undisputed fact that primitive peoples referred to the mushrooms as gods and said they encountered spirits, angels, the sacred ancestors on mushrooms.

And your argument doesn't work anyway, you are talking about people who claim to have seen aliens without being on mushrooms, I am talking about people being on mushrooms encountering entities, which they have done for thousands of years.

Incidentally, I've never believed in reports of aliens. How come I saw them?


--------------------
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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #727680 - 07/07/02 12:03 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Know this: I really despise giving vocabulary lessons. My definitions come straight outta Webster's.

Shroomalicious: Define what a jackass is?
A fool.


Define what is concrete evidence is?
Something that holds water... I know you know what I mean. Don't play games.


Define objectivity?
Well, I never used the word "objectivity"... you have a slight reading comprehension problem. I said objectively. If you want to go full-scale dialectic on this one... I won't bother. It's a waste of my time... I've posted my thoughts on being objective way too many times only to be ignored. But here's the dictionary definition:
objective(ly)- belonging to the sensible world and being observable or verifiable esp. by scientific methods.
Now, you'll probably try to jump all over me for those last two words.

Define Alien?
Not of this world... i.e. from "outer space", another galaxy, another universe, another time, another dimension, another "vibration", another you-fill-in-the-blank.

All these things are open to interpretation and everyone has, at least, slightly different believes on them...that is what an opinion is.
I have no beliefs on the matter. I only have thoughts.

I think you are only as "hung up" on your beliefs as I am on mine.
Is this some sort of ruse?

People have been reporting the same type of phenomenon for centuries, IMO they are as concrete as they ever were (for better or worse).
In your opinion... doesn't sound like concrete evidence. Please cite your sources. I know you won't, because no one ever can cite such a source... they don't exist. I'm anxiously awaiting your reply (or your conspicuous avoidance of the issue).


Alex123: And your argument doesn't work anyway, you are talking about people who claim to have seen aliens without being on mushrooms, I am talking about people being on mushrooms encountering entities, which they have done for thousands of years.
What, like it matters if you see the same "aliens" on shrooms or not?
"Dude, mushrooms like opened my mind's eye to the 27th dimension so I could see and communicate with the aliens."
"What did the aliens say Alex?"
"They told me to burn things."

Could you point me to the cave paintings that depict the anal probes?

All you have is subjective evidence, I'm sorry. I once had this retarded cousin come up to me and tell me that he could talk to animals. I asked him if he could talk to any animal. He said "Yes". So I asked him to talk my neighbor's cat (I told him it was mine though, my neighbors were out of town and we were watching their cat). He told me about how the "my" cat loves it when I pet him and play with him. Then I told him that I hadn't ever played with it and that it was my neighbor's cat. He just walked away. That little experiment didn't sound so "scientific" did it? But it was enough to disprove my cousin's "theory". At least my retarded cousin would actually participate in an investigation... not one of you (I hate grouping all of you...) "believers" have actually put themselves up to some sort of realistic scrutiny. You just brand me a naysayer and that's that. I don't care... I'm just doing my part by trying to keep the bullshit out of philosophy and spirituality.


Incidentally, I've never believed in reports of aliens. How come I saw them?
Maybe your mind's eye "saw" them, but as long as the photographic eye doesn't, they are only a subjective figment of your neural cascades. I bet as soon as you "saw" them, you immediately recognized them as the stereotypical "aliens". I wonder why that is...


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
    #727836 - 07/07/02 01:22 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

What are you on about? Do you get anal probes when you take mushrooms? I don't know anyone who does.

OK, forget the word aliens and substitute the word "spirits". That way there's no confusion with your war of the worlds bullshit.

And getting back to the point, why should DMT produce these effects in human beings? If you can't suggest a reason why then stop ass-raping the thread would you son? Thanks.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
    #728309 - 07/07/02 06:00 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Could you point me to the cave paintings that depict the anal probes?

The paintings in the Cave of Lascaux in france DO depict cattle mutilation. So there!



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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #728314 - 07/07/02 06:04 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Anyone got any theories as to why DMT should exist in so many places in nature (when it appears to serve no obvious purpose to any living organism),
There are untold compounds in plants that we have no idea how they function or why. Our ignorance of this is indicative of NOTHING AT ALL except that is not very important to mainstream researchers.

...and why one of it's main effects is to contact human beings with what they consider to be aliens?
One can have visions off of rattlesnake venom yet this effect has nothing to do with its primary purpose.

Is it just coincidence?
Coinciding with WHAT?



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #728341 - 07/07/02 06:21 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

OK, forget the word aliens and substitute the word "spirits".

(No facetiousness implied) If one has never before seen a spirit, then how does identify a vision as such?

Having done Ayahuasca, peyote, LSD, and mushrooms over a 30 year period, I have never once encountered an entity. This could be due to 1 of 4 main possibilities:

1. Did not take enough (complete brain fry).
2. There are no such things.
3. Some people's imagination are more susceptable to what others say.
4. Only certain people can receive these images.

Having lived through the later part of the psychedelic era where large numbers of friends were doing copious amounts of these substances (albeit not DMT), I never once heard of alien visions until the 90s.

Going back to an old thought / thread - I once asked about cartoons images on mushrooms. Never got one decent response. I frequently see cartoon characters while tripping (elves?). Why are alien images considered to be more "real" or "significant" than my usual imaginary images? Or more real than dancing curtains for that matter?



--------------------



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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Sclorch]
    #728578 - 07/07/02 09:15 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Shroomalicious: Define what a jackass is?
A fool.

Yes, but what is a fool? Who gets to decide who is the fool and who isn't? Who gets to decide what the actions of a fool are? People have called a good deal of Earth greatest contributers fools...and perhaps they were.

Define what is concrete evidence is?
Something that holds water... I know you know what I mean. Don't play games.

I am not playing games, I am serious. Once again, in many peoples opinion Aliens/Spirits hold plenty of water...in many other peoples opinion they do not...which bring me to my question...who gets to decide what hold water? It is a matter of opinion.

Well, I never used the word "objectivity"... you have a slight reading comprehension problem. I said objectively. If you want to go full-scale dialectic on this one... I won't bother. It's a waste of my time... I've posted my thoughts on being objective way too many times only to be ignored.

Are you saying that the word objectivity and the word objectively are not similar?

I think you are only as "hung up" on your beliefs as I am on mine.
Is this some sort of ruse?

What makes you think that? I have gone head on into all points you brought up and if you don't feel that way then repost what I have not gone over and I will.

People have been reporting the same type of phenomenon for centuries, IMO they are as concrete as they ever were (for better or worse).
In your opinion... doesn't sound like concrete evidence. Please cite your sources. I know you won't, because no one ever can cite such a source... they don't exist. I'm anxiously awaiting your reply (or your conspicuous avoidance of the issue).

All right I will give you a few things...but please allow me a breif assumption...it seems that no matter what people put in front of you you always discredit the source. Whether it be a guys account or whether it be pictures, etc. While you have every right to do this giving you different sources won't help you much, I think.

Read Erich von Daniken. Look at Shroomism pcitures (for starters) in his Alien's post. Although he didn't believe they were aliens even Swami could not explain them all...BTW, why is that? When something happens that you admit you don't know what it is and yet your immediately throw out certain ideas, that is not my opinion of subjectivity, but that may be yours. Also, read the Sirious Mystery, some interesting things in that book. I'll give you a few more if you want them but I think you aren't going to be satisfied.

At least my retarded cousin would actually participate in an investigation... not one of you (I hate grouping all of you...) "believers" have actually put themselves up to some sort of realistic scrutiny. You just brand me a naysayer and that's that. I don't care... I'm just doing my part by trying to keep the bullshit out of philosophy and spirituality.
I have been and will continue to throw my beliefs up against "disbelievers", that is what these two post are about.

Once again YOU are deciding what is bullshit about philosophy and spiritualy when the entire topic is a matter of opinion, unlike say science where an igneous rock is an igneous rock.

Seriously, I don't mind talking about this and I enjoy communicating with you. I don't agree with you about many things but you can learn something from everyone and besides you are an intelligent guy. Challenge my beliefs anytime.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Swami]
    #730024 - 07/07/02 08:50 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

"One can have visions off of rattlesnake venom yet this effect has nothing to do with its primary purpose."

Yes but rattlesnake venom doesn't occur naturally in the human brain.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Swami]
    #730031 - 07/07/02 08:57 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

"Having lived through the later part of the psychedelic era where large numbers of friends were doing copious amounts of these substances (albeit not DMT), I never once heard of alien visions until the 90s."

Strange, Maria Sabina was reporting contacting the spirits the day Wasson met her in 53. There are stones depicting strange entities carved into mushroom stones from 10000 years ago and cave paintings of bee-headed "aliens" holding mushrooms from 3000 years ago.

Were your friends doing mushrooms alone in darkness with their eyes closed? Or were they at a party walking round going "The wall just like moved dude...crazy"



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OfflineAdamist
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Re: DMT - Any theories? [Re: Xlea321]
    #730079 - 07/07/02 09:19 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

LOL!


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