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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: Grok]
    #6661902 -

"The changes that could take place"

Of course they could. Anything can happen. But that's different from being sure they will happen and when.

It's enough if one really has done this themselves. They no longer require that from anyone else as they already have the world they wish to inhabit.:heart:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (03/12/07 03:56 PM)

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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: arne]
    #6661909 -

all you have to do is look at the zodiac to know exactly how close we are, it's as simple as that.

psylocibe couldn't have put it any better. The world will have no needs for we will have anything and everything we could ever possibly want thus ending the need for need altogether.

to die is simply another word for entering immortality.


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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: shizznit]
    #6661918 -

i only say COULD and IDEAS because i don't want to seem totally irrational...

truth be known, i know this all to be fact.


"On the visual spectrum alone, it has been well known since Newton that we normally perceive less than 0.5 (one-half of one) per cent of all known pulsations."
Robert Anton Wilson


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Edited by shizznit (03/12/07 04:09 PM)

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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: Grok]
    #6662174 -

I guarantee that within five years (very likely sooner) there will be a worldwide revolution based on an understanding of human potential and life itself. If you are really interested in betting me throw me a PM.

Alright, I call your bluff.

There's no need for PM. Let's set this up here in public.

State what you think will change such that it can be clearly measured by an impartial third party we'll both agree on, perhaps one of the Shroomery admins. We'll go from there.

The ball's in your court.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: shizznit]
    #6662223 -

terence Kenna knew it

McKenna's timewave crap has been debunked here a dozen times. Here's an excerpt of Peter Meyer, the guy who WROTE Kenna's software:

Peter Meyer: I regard the time wave as having no explanatory or predictive power at all, and so is useless as a cognitive aid. It can, however, be entertaining, as long as one doesn't believe it gives any knowledge of any kind. Unfortunately (as I suspect) a lot of people do believe it, so they're fooling themselves (as people tend to do).

Peter Meyer: The problem is that the construction of any of the sets of 384 numbers is arbitrary. That would not be a fatal objection if the theory could be used to explain or predict, but it can't (in a way which withstands criticism). It doesn't predict or explain anything at all.

And from "Autopsy for a Mathematical Hallucination?", McKenna discounts his own nonsense 'theory':

"Recently, while in Mexico at the classic Maya site of Palenque, I made the aquaintance of a young British mathematician and psychokinesiologist named Matthew Watkins. Watkins offered the strongest and most interesting critique of the timewave and the assumptions of its construction yet made. Watkins is confident that he has condensed the theory of the timewave into a formula (given below) and is further convinced that there is no rational basis for assuming that the timewave represents the fluctuation of any quantity which can be meaningfully understood as 'novelty'." -- Terence McKenna

And a few key excerpts from Watkins' mathematical analysis:

Strangely, McKenna's description of the derivation fails to yield the data points which appear in the appendix and which have been used since.

and

By the final discussion he [McKenna] seemed to have fully grasped the nature of the problem, and had admitted that the theory appeared to have "no basis in rational thought".

and

As a mathematician who has met and talked with him [McKenna], who is sympathetic with the majority of his other work, and who is only interested in spreading clarity, I must conclude that the "timewave" cannot be taken to be what McKenna claims it is.

Of course, the complete debunking of the basis for a True Believer's beliefs has never stopped one from continuing to believe anyway. Truth doesn't matter to a True Believer, only their beliefs matter, even when they're demonstrably wrong, as the above illustrates. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: Diploid]
    #6662376 -

Diploid said:
Self-discovery, learning to see things from new perspectives, improving my chess game (serious!), bonding with friends, having fun...

Why do you take them?



i don't, generally. those would be reasons to except for the chess though.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: leery11]
    #6663691 -

hey man, i dont even know what youre talking about. dont take this the wrong way, but are u in a public library? because theres a couple of bums that live around here and spew this kind of shit, and i see them in the library sometimes. So mayb youre on of them using a public library computer. Either way, I suggest you talk to people about these ideas with you in person, and see how they respond. peace

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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: shizznit]
    #6664298 -

shizznit said:
i only say COULD and IDEAS because i don't want to seem totally irrational...

truth be known, i know this all to be fact.


"On the visual spectrum alone, it has been well known since Newton that we normally perceive less than 0.5 (one-half of one) per cent of all known pulsations."
Robert Anton Wilson 


I think it's all wishful thinking. IMO anyone who thinks they know the future is naive or delusional or self indulgent..:tongue:

Edited by Icelander (03/13/07 10:57 AM)

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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: Icelander]
    #6664338 -

I know the future ! Everyone will gonna die !
:grin: :heart:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #6664419 -

Not me! I'm invincible! :cool:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: Icelander]
    #6664444 -

Icelander said:
"The changes that could take place"

Of course they could. Anything can happen. But that's different from being sure they will happen and when.


I am sure that if people were to become aware of the full potential of human experience these changes would happen very quickly. It'd be like a chain reaction. I also do known when it is happening; NOW. There is no future or past. The changes will occur as people become more aware; which is essentially inevitable as greater awareness is a byproduct of the evolution of consciousness; and let's not forget that we ARE evolving right now. This is nothing more than a choice we can make and enact right now.

Most people can't see how such changes could happen. I can no longer see how they cannot. There's only two directions humanity can go now.  Heaven or hell, and it's our choice. Few people would have faith in that human beings could become One and transcend this reality, and so long as we doubt this, that will be our experience. If people knew that we could do this, which I assure you in the core of my being that we can, and very simply at that, they would undoubedtly make this their intent. One step at a time though.

Quote:
It's enough if one really has done this themselves. They no longer require that from anyone else as they already have the world they wish to inhabit.:heart:


True in that nothing is required from others. But nothing ever was. Nothing IS required at all, all need is an illusion of our reality. Everyone already lives in the world they wish to inhabit; they've not yet remembered this however.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: Grok]
    #6664615 -

There's only two directions humanity can go now. Heaven or hell, and it's our choice.

You do realize that heaven and hell are cultural constructs, don't you?

Had you been born on another planet, in another civilization, the concepts of heaven and hell wouldn't figure even in your imagination, let alone your reality.

All these whimsical ideas you put forth are arbitrary and made up to naively fit the pre-conclusions hard wired into your psyche by the evolution of human neurology and the culture that has surrounded you since birth.

It's all happy self-deception fulfilling the human need for a protective big daddy in the sky and for spinning the cold neutral Truth of existence into something warm and fuzzy and anthropomorphic.

I know this because nothing you say is new. It's all been said before. Humans were said to be 'on the verge' at the turn of the last century, and again during WWI, and again during WWII, and when the first atomic bomb exploded, and when hippies had long hair, and when Y2K came along. And now yet again for 2012.

It'll be said again when asteroid Apophis makes a close pass by Earth in 2029 and when it returns in 2036 too. Primitive humans said these same things 10,000 years ago when other asteroids filled the sky, not because those things were true, but because those humans share the same neurological structures with us.

People will continue to say we're 'on the verge' so long as humans fail to realize that imagined things are not real.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: Diploid]
    #6664677 -

Look man, I didn't mean Biblical heaven or hell. This has absolutely nothing to do with any sort of organized religion or traditional views of heaven/hell/God. Nor does this have anthing to do with any prophetic dates or events. There is only right NOW and this is when we can choose. I can assure you that no magical cosmic forces are going to change the world at some predetermined date, Jesus isn't going to fall out of the sky.

The way we're headed right now means utter destruction. Too many people consuming too many resources too quickly and at an ever increasing rate. Humanity will doom itself if it doesn't evolve back into balance with all life. That is the 'hell' I refer to. We're already headed there. But we don't have to. Nothing is hell lest thinking make it so anyway; it's all about how you choose to experience reality. But I can't see how this direction wouldn't be a hellish experience for most people; their fears of death and ego attachments would make such an experience hellish.

It is also possible to transcend this entire reality and enter a new era of human experience beond anything you can imagine. That is heaven to me.

It's our choice which way we want to go. I have aboslutely no belief in 'big daddy in the sky', these aren't ideas I've adpoted to make myself feel good or help me sleep at night. We are God and we can create heaven or hell as we choose. It's that simple. ITS ALL OUR CHOICE RIGHT NOW.

And it doesn't even matter anyway. The final outcome is guaranteed.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

Edited by cilosyb (03/13/07 01:04 PM)

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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: Diploid]
    #6664704 -

actually, on dec 21st 2012 the zodiac will complete full circle. If you truly believe that nothing is going to happen when that happens. Then shit..i guess it's total coincidence ( and coincidences do not exist in an intelligent system which *surprise* we live in one ) that the stars fit a full 24,960 year life span exactly. It's just a time clock put in the sky. The mayans, who didn't even have the wheel, had knowledge of this long before anyone of true western society did.

But hey, we can't make anyone believe anything. your ignorance is because you haven't seen and read the things i have thus your beliefs are that i'm the one being ignorant. Besides all that though.. einstein has already determined that all matter of energy can only build up before it must "explode" or "disintegrate" so the fact that you say were going to 2029/2036/infinity defies the law of physics and physics is an EXACT science.


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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: shizznit]
    #6664713 -

it's flat out hysterical that anyone would believe that the zodiac is pure coincidence or just "there" in the first place. That alone should tell you alot.


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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: shizznit]
    #6664760 -

From what I understand, and my understanding is not immune to misunderstanding, the Mayan Calender has nothing to do plantary/galactic movements or cycles, but the evolution of consciousness. Lately there have been many episodes with people who partake Ayahuasca which have conveyed to them a strong significance of the mayan calender and evolution of consicousness, which I could see as plausible given that

A. Humanity has never been so connected
B. Our 'advances' and understanding of life and reality grow at an ever increasing rate
C. My own personal experience which has shown to me that a unified collective at the same level of awakened consciousness could transcend reality and 'time'.

It could correlate to the Mayan Calender. Maybe not. There are no coincidences. At any rate, it doesn't matter...nothing will change unless humanity changes it's mind about many things.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: shizznit]
    #6664773 -

actually, on dec 21st 2012 the zodiac will complete full circle.

So what? It's A full cycle that has been completed over and over every 23,000 years for a total of about 200,000 cycles since the Earth formed. And in 23,000 more years, it'll happen again. Big deal.

I debunk the time wave 2012 baloney, and you come up with the zodiac 2012 alignment baloney to replace it. You seem more interested in believing what you believe than in finding the truth, whatever it may be.

Let's talk zodiac, though I doubt the True Believers will put any effort into reading and understanding what I'm writing, not because it takes effort but because True Believers don't read things that demonstrate conclusively that their beliefs are suspect. I'll try anyway:

First some terminology and basic principles of astronomy.

1. Angular measurements are made using degrees. There are 360 degrees in a full circle. Fractions of degrees are measured in minutes and seconds, so 1.5 degrees is the same as 1 degree, 30 minutes, 0 seconds.

2. The path of the sun against the backdrop of (essentially) fixed stars is called the ecliptic. Which constellation the sun is in on the ecliptic on your birthday is what determines your sign.

3. The position of a star in the sky is defined by its Right Ascension (RA) and it's Declination (Dec). This is analogous to latitude and longitude on a land map. RA is given in hours, minutes and seconds, Declination in degrees, minutes and seconds.

4. The Celestial Sphere is an imaginary sphere surrounding the Earth with its poles exactly aligned with the poles of the Earth. The celestial sphere rotates once a day around the celestial poles as a result of the rotation of the Earth on its axis. All astronomical objects can be considered as lying on the celestial sphere.

5. The zodiac consists of 12 even slices of the ecliptic, one for each sign, so each sign subtends 30 degrees in the sky (360 / 12).

6. An astronoMer is a scientist. An astroloGer is a mystic.

Now the beef.

The Precession of the Equinoxes, also known by the name Precession of the Zodiac, is a gradual westward movement of the zodiac on the celestial sphere. Its main component, caused by the gravitational pulls of the Sun and Moon on the Earth's equatorial bulge, is known as Lunisolar Precession. An additional effect due to the pulls of the planets is called Planetary Precession. The sum of these two components is called General Precession.

General Precession causes all the stars to slowly move west parallel to the ecliptic such that the stars visible from any given place and time of night gradually changes throughout one cycle of precession. Because of precession, the right ascension and declination of stars are continually changing. The total change amounts to ~ 1.5 degree per century.

To allow for this constant change, and because it would be too expensive to issue new star charts every year, star charts give star coordinates for a standard epoch, which by international agreement is currently the start of the year 2000. On January 2, 2000, all the star charts are in error because of precession, but the effect is small enough (only 1.5 degree per century) that it is only corrected at each new epoch, typically every 50 years.

Over the course of the 2000+ years since astrology was invented, precession has drifted the zodiac by about 30 degrees, or one entire sign. Professional astronomers compensate by issuing new tables at each epoch, but astrologers stuck in 2000 year old pseudo-science do not.

A concrete example:

The star Beta Capricorni is currently at position 20 hours, 21.0 minutes RA and -14 degrees 46.9 minutes Dec. If you point a telescope at that spot, you will find Beta Capricorni. In 100 years, you will be off by 1.5 degrees, and 2000 years ago, you would have been in error by 30 degrees ( 1.5 * (2000 / 100) ), or one complete sign.

This is why if you think you're any given sign, you are actually one sign over. Most astrologers are ignorant of these facts because all they do is plug your birthday into a computer program and 'interpret' what comes out. The ones that do know about precession never mention it because it would wreck their money-making system. Both types of a$trologers count on their blind followers to never look this stuff up for themselves.

shizznit says:your ignorance is because you haven't seen and read the things i have

Thanks for that laugh! :rofl2:

By the way, I'm still waiting for a True Believer to take me up on the $1,000 bet. Put your money where your mouth is, or do you have no conviction in what you're saying? I do.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: Diploid]
    #6664835 -

"So waht? It's A full cicle that has been completed over and over every 23,000 years for a total of about 200,000 cycles since the Earth formed. And in 23,000 more years, it'll happen again. Big deal."


I didn't realize you were around 23,000 years ago and 23,000 years before that and again 23,000 years before that. For all you.. and humanity knows, there has only been one cycle and thats the one were in and about to leave.


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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: shizznit]
    #6664841 -

lol diploid i don't know what you believe in but from what i read out of you, you seem to believe in detesting every possible "ending of existence type theory" and seeing as how you have Posts: 6199 ... You have much more expeirence in it then i do. Believe what you will, the others in here may or may not know what i mean when i say; You haven't had a talk with the logos.

Nice info, to bad its all phsycial.


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Re: Make no mistake about it [Re: shizznit]
    #6665085 -

For all you.. and humanity knows, there has only been one cycle

How do you explain the geologic record that shows a clear 23,000 year climatic change cycle; evidence that the Earth does indeed precess and has been doing so for the entire available geologic record?

Nice info, to bad its all phsycial

Right. When the evidence contradicts the True Believers, they just dismiss it out of hand. How about pointing out which parts of my explanation are wrong and why instead? That would be more productive than saying I'm wrong "just because".

I didn't realize you were around 23,000 years ago

See, this is what I mean when I say that a True Believer cares not for the truth, but only for blind belief even in the face of evidence to the contrary.

I don't have to be 23,000 years old to know that the Earth's orbit was precessing back then like it still is now and will be in another 23,000 years. That you would dismiss all that careful explaining I just typed up by simply saying I can't be right because I'm not 23,000 years old is classic True Believer denial of available evidence when it contradicts dogma. Something the Inquisition made clear to Galileo once.

If you were seeking the Truth rather than just supporting blind dogma, you would at least debate me fairly by pointing out where my points above are wrong instead of just dismissing me because I wasn't there to witness the last cycle of precession.

But anyway, let me get you straight. Are you saying that the Earth WAS NOT precessing 23,000 years ago?? :confused:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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