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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: Silversoul]
    #6309320 -

no hope


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: Silversoul]
    #6309326 -

I want to respond, but the way "ego" is being used seems so ambivalent I can't find a place to start. You don't seem to be using ego in the sense of consciousness, ego in the sense of self, or ego in a psychoanalytic sense?

Please define "ego."

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6309393 -

I agree, this description of the ego doesn't fit any definition I've heard before.

SS: If you are discussing ego in the Freudian sense, the qualities you are describing refer to the id. The ego is the "middle man" who negotiates between the id (animalistic impulses, basic drives) and the superego (internalized parent or deity). Sometimes the ego goes astray in these negotiations, but it is always in the middle.

If you are discussing ego in the "constructed self and habitual behavior patterns" sense, then I will return to the driver/vehicle metaphor once again. The problem is not in the ego, but in what ask of the ego. We ask our ego to protect us from responsibility for our choices, to cover us with a soft fuzzy blanket of carefully-maintained ignorance, to run on auto-pilot.

Quote:
leads to unbridled desire, which, as the Buddha said, leads to suffering


Actually, this was a mistranslation of the original text, which said that craving/grasping leads to suffering. It is not the desire which leads us to suffer, but the mental habit of denying impermanence. We constantly yearn for the "good" things to persist and the "bad" things to stop, instead of rationally accepting that nothing will persist. This denial of the nature of reality leads inevitably to suffering.

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: Veritas]
    #6309399 -

That description was divinely inspired. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: Icelander]
    #6309412 -

Divine?


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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: Veritas]
    #6309417 -

I'd hit it.

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: Veritas]
    #6309425 -

I am not using "ego" in the Freudian sense(I rarely find it used in that sense by most people). I'm using it in the sense that most spiritual philosophies use it(and the way I've seen it most commonly used): That part of our consciousness which creates the illusion of separation and of selfhood, and holds the self above all else.

Quote:
Actually, this was a mistranslation of the original text, which said that craving/grasping leads to suffering. It is not the desire which leads us to suffer, but the mental habit of denying impermanence. We constantly yearn for the "good" things to persist and the "bad" things to stop, instead of rationally accepting that nothing will persist. This denial of the nature of reality leads inevitably to suffering.


Doesn't seem like a mistranslation to me. That's exactly what I meant when I said desire, and it still reigns true that this is a manifestation of the ego.


--------------------

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: Veritas]
    #6309450 -

I can't let you off without a proper questioning. :tongue: I'm not comprehending what you mean by "what you ask of the ego." (I assuming the "driver" equals the ego?) It doesn't make much sense to me to 'ask' anything of the decision-maker, driver, ego, or whatever you want to call it. Either 1) the 'driver' will wish to perform some task and be able to accomplish it, or 2) will wish to 'do' something but be inhibited by some emotional-biological factor (fear, anxiety, etc). It seems to make more sense to 'ask' of the 'vehicle' rather than the ego.

We ask our ego to protect us from responsibility for our choices, to cover us with a soft fuzzy blanket of carefully-maintained ignorance, to run on auto-pilot.

If you mean individuals try to place responsibility for their behavior outside of themselves, then I understand. "I failed the test because the other students were distracting me... not because I didn't study."

I'm just not gettin "We ask our ego..."  Maybe I am just taking "ask" too literally?

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: Silversoul]
    #6309460 -

I'd call that "Self-concept."

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: Silversoul]
    #6309480 -

Anyway, as I was saying before getting sidetracked, the trappings of the ego tempt us all(as symbolized by Jesus' temptation in the desert), but though it may seem too strong to resist sometimes, there is hope for us all.

I agree that an extremely self-promoting (in other words: unable to see ones own faults) can prevent the growth of a persons personality. The more accurate picture you have of yourself, the better you can - as Firework's God would say - navigate reality. If you're aware you tend to behave arrogantly or smugly, then you can make an effort to reverse this - if you need to. On the other hand, if you're unwilling to accept that you have this trait, you may offend others and be less successful at reaching your goals. Likewise, seeing yourself as a distinct entity separate from all the other forces of the universe probably will be detrimental too - although, since this is more ambiguous and abstract, and I"m tired, I won't provide any examples.  :tongue:

Edited by MushmanTheManic (11/29/06 01:37 AM)

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6319375 -

MushmanTheManic said:
I'm not comprehending what you mean by "what you ask of the ego." (I assuming the "driver" equals the ego?)


No, the driver is our consciousness.  We (consciousness) create and re-create our ego (external representation of self) by requesting tasks.  Our ego does not make the decisions, nor is it in the driver's seat. (Though it may seem so when we run our lives on "automatic pilot." :tongue:)

Quote:
We ask our ego to protect us from responsibility for our choices, to cover us with a soft fuzzy blanket of carefully-maintained ignorance, to run on auto-pilot.

If you mean individuals try to place responsibility for their behavior outside of themselves, then I understand. "I failed the test because the other students were distracting me... not because I didn't study."



I meant placing responsibility for our behavior on "instincts" or "the way ANYONE would react," as in outside the control of our consciousness. IMO, this is the source of the negative response many people have to Rational Emotive Therapy techniques--they believe that they are either their reactive creation (ego) or a robot (lack of ego.)

Additionally, identification with the constructed self is often used to maintain what I like to call the Discomfort Zone.  :grin:  This is the familiar, mediocre unpleasantness we call a lifestyle.  What Thoreau referred to as "lives of quiet desperation."  As long as we believe that our constructed self IS who we are, we are blind to the flashing green EXIT sign at the rear of the Discomfort Zone.

Edited by Veritas (11/29/06 09:32 PM)

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: Veritas]
    #6319592 -

what if there really are not that many separate parts to self/or/mind such as driver and also ego.
the facts of streaming conciousness and associative memory don't require other special constructs.
a lot of people are looking at synchronicity, (sure it's related!) and it really itmatters not a whit, while it is happening, if you made it so, your memory compelled it, or it blew in from outside.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6319630 -

Something just felt really right about what you just said there Red.  Timing was perfect for me anyway. :thumbup:

:heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6319682 -

Well, dividing my "self" into the part which seems to exist of its own accord (consciousness), and the part which I perform or create, matters to me because I want to experiment with the performance.

Perhaps it is unnecessary or inaccurate to dissect the self.  :shrug:  I find it entertaining/educational.

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: Veritas]
    #6320101 -

IMO, I've found separating my ego from my higher(core) self, seems to indicate a lack of responsibility. It therefor becomes easy to "blame" this ego for these self created problems, and instead of looking directly eye to eye at yourself in the mirror, ya tend to look "down" upon this egotistical self. There is truly no separation.

p.s. Inspiring thread, thank you!  :heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."

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Re: You Are Very Unhappy [Re: Ped]
    #6328202 -

Ped said:
All of you! A bunch of mirages! We've got people throwing around words like "radiant" and "all-encompassing", we've got conversations about the will of the universe, or "hyperspace", or "hyperconsciousness" or whatever other nonsense. Over there, somebody's pretending they're Yoda. And over there, somebody's pretending they're a Yogi. Yodas, Yogis, and Yoginis, all congregating at a site populated otherwise by drugged out losers with too much money, time, and far too little self-esteem.

I'm sick of all the bullshit. I'm sick of all the pretending. None of you are wise, special, enlightened. Neither are any of you wise, special, or enlightened for not claiming to be wise, special or enlightened. None of you are even on par with what's popularly considered well-adjusted! In fact, all of you, every last one right down to the very core, is a fuck-up.

Now, am I talking about S&P, or am I talking about myself?


I totally agree, this forum has been hyjacked and ruined.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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