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OfflineOregonBluesGil
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6344777 - 12/07/06 11:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

yUP THATS KIND OF ODD HUH?Anyways those Cyanfriscosa I found were on the northern outskits of eureka right off the Hwy 101 on the way to arcada,So maybe they were Cyanofiblosa,like Mj Said I Dont know?But Like I Said Mj sould travel More or less Regional WestCost,Raather then to Go to thailand to tell us About Shrooms That no-one rarly will see.Lets get the spieces around here In order first before we go off to another Country,But Whom Am i to tell what people should do.


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I'm in a Magical Mushroom land!


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: WaylitJim]
    #6344785 - 12/07/06 11:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Ok thanks Waylit. I've cerrtainly never seen those around here before, That was the one and only time I ever saw that, and it's good enough for me to save, so hopefully this year I can get better photos. Those last year were mostly old and dried by the time I found it


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InvisibleWaylitJim
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6344806 - 12/07/06 11:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I found a similar mushroom in Berkeley last year, I thought it was P. azurescens but Workman recently examined it but says it's not. This is the original specimen.





And some cultivated...


Edited by WaylitJim (12/07/06 11:41 PM)


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6344846 - 12/07/06 11:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Ok, lets see about one comparison..

the first one from a Japanese website > http://kinoko-ya.jp/01eng6/psilocybe_subaeruginascens02.htm


Yeah, I can see this. semi nipple, veil remnant on stipe..except the patch I found didn't get wavy, but that might not be normal anyway. I guess subaeruginascens is japanese?

I think Peter also mentioned they weren't quite like the subaeruginascens found in GG Park last year. I think that's the same one I saw at the MSSF meeting last year when somebody had a live specimen. That specimen was tiny compared to the Richmond find.

Either way, there should be more about this pretty soon


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: WaylitJim]
    #6344848 - 12/07/06 11:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

WaylitJim said:
I found a similar mushroom in Berkeley last year, I thought it was P. azurescens but Workman recently examined it but says it's not. This is the original specimen.





And some cultivated...





jajaja....yep yep....that looks more like what I found in Richmond last year...I'd say Bingo, those are the same ones

the second photo, note the sheen on the stipe and how it's sort of bumpy like that?..yep, I saw the same thing. those things are strong. I ate one average size and I felt it for 6 hours..recently a friend told me she ate just half of one and felt it most of the day, and those were dried for 6 months in a vacuum


Edited by auweia (12/08/06 02:40 AM)


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6345083 - 12/08/06 01:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

the one that the dude at the fair said was the cyclone had no nipple. We need peter in on this again. This guy acted as if he knew peter personaly and i saw him showing the fib and cyclones to him
stunzi?


cyanescens

unknown

nice ass

fibs


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


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Teh=The
I need to proofread


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InvisibleWaylitJim
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6345112 - 12/08/06 01:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

That is a nice ass!

Quote:

auweia said:
I guess subaeruginascens is japanese?





That's a good photo you found. These don't get wavy either. Subaeruginascens are known to fruit from April to July in temperate southern Japan and subtropical Indonesia. They really are strong. :crazy2:


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: WaylitJim]
    #6345442 - 12/08/06 03:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

There are two varieties of the japanese Psilocybe subaeruginascens.
One form japan and one is from indonesia. No Auweia, I was not suggesting that at all.

I would say that if someone had sent me a collection of those shrooms a few years back I could have had them done within four months of research with chemical analysis, SEM spore ideiificationa and even Cultivation.

However, Workman is the most reliable for fast cultivation since he is outside the continental USA and can conduct such cultivation. I do a lot of that in Thailand but i have access to a whole University of mycological wealth in lab equiptment, scopes and in cultivation and chemical analysis of species, and i have numerous scholarly colleagues to assist me in anything I send to them, faster than it has taken for someone to really check this species out.

again, I guess you will all have to wait on Guzman and that could still take several years for him to complete his updated revised edition to the monograph of the Genus Psilocybe.

Still I could have chemical analysis performed and provide SEM's of such specimens as well as taxonomy of te species if anyone is intersted pm me and I can get your specimens to a legitmate source for work on them

I should mention that we knew of both P. azutrescens as early as 1980 and 1981 and also of P. cyanofibrilosa, but then again it took many years for sooeoen to work on them. A lot of recent work has been generated because of people like me who continue to go everywhere and investigate what grows where.

If I were to have a grant of enough to live in San Ferancisco for three months inthe fall I could have done so.

But I make a living taking people (usually serious in college students and teachers to se Asia to conduct such research ont two levels of communication. Both mycological and cultural. Angkor Wat is a good example and ther eis still the mysterious shroom from Thailand found by Gary Lincoff in Thailand which paul Stamets shows aas an unidentified species on a page in his book.

I still have four or five more specimens of mushrooms not yet identified, two magic and three not but all are Psilocybes and one non-active Hypholoma.

mj


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6346100 - 12/08/06 06:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I hope you do get some samples from here sometime...It would be great to see SEM's of these someday and for a consensus to finally be reached. It sure doesn't seem like there's enough of a consensus yet on these. I'm certainly not satisfied yet with the taxon on these.

I think Workman already has some samples of both. I can only get some samples to MSSF right now, but I know others might be willing to send it further

also, about the Psilocybe subaeruginascens, it could be, but there's enough difference to make me question that too. I spent a year in Korea and that's not far away from southern Japan, and that's one heck of a different environment than here. The extremes in weather can be more like Kansas than the PNW.

still, stranger things have happened, so we can't rule anything out. Hang on to your hats, here comes the rain


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6346154 - 12/08/06 06:59 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

hey btw, Waylit might be interested in this, along with some others..I came across this thread by accident...Just check out the photos and compare them with the photos posted here...I say nothing else right now

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3271354#3271354

er, rather, this > http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3269280#Post3269280

now can you see what some of the problem is?...


Edited by auweia (12/08/06 07:18 AM)


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6346274 - 12/08/06 07:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

'I've never seen that here. I can tell very easy that I've never seen that here. It's so obvious it whaps me upside the head with a frying pan. If you can't see the difference between this photo and what we've been seeing here and posting photos of, then I recoomend you don't come here and pick cause you'll be next in line for the Darwin awards. I've seen galerinas here that look closer to the above photos than the psilocybes we've been picking here.'

Ive missed your point completely there. Who said your mushroom was supposed to look like that? I certainly didnt...

Someone feel free to post some microphotos of the basidia and cystidia and all confusion will be to some degree clarified.


--------------------


Edited by Zen Peddler (12/08/06 07:56 AM)


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6346284 - 12/08/06 07:44 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

'Currently, the two most important mycologists involved in Psilocybes are Prof Nooderloos and Gaston Guzman and his daughter Laura, and several others in Xalapa, Mexico. In fact, all Psilocybes which are new generally go to Guzman who is currently revising his 1983, "The Genus Psilocybe."'

In whose opinion MJ? Yours? I dont agree in any way - just because they write a lot doesnt mean they know what they are doing...
Pluteus - if he wasnt on 'holiday' would have sorted the whole genus out in no time...

And talking about how a mushroom looks to you is meaningless - you cant identify a mushroom purely by its macroscopic characteristics.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6346295 - 12/08/06 07:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

'I can't think of any species with more extreme variation than fibrillosa. Almost seems like it's pushing the limits, and it just might be '

See, ive mentioned a species that varies far more than yours does - Ps.subaeruginosa - but your obviously so assured in your reasoning taht your too busy to read...
Seriously what limits are you talking about? Have you researched or defined the limits, or do you just talk about your opinion?
How many species have you actually examined? I mean ive seen strains of cubensis that are much more variable than that.


--------------------


Edited by Zen Peddler (12/08/06 08:01 AM)


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #6346318 - 12/08/06 07:53 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

last reply in a row.
If Peter thinks this mushroom is subaeruginescens again Id like to see some evidence of this - for a start its an Asian species. Subaeruginosa is probably more likely, since it is such an aggressive species and can over-run Ps.cyanescens patches in the UK.
It is possible, but generally it has far smaller spores than the normaller or more common Ps.cyanescens variants like Ps.cyanescens (surprise!), Ps.subaeruginosa and Ps.azurescens.
So that is a long shot - pretty much like most of what Ive heard Peter say...


--------------------


Edited by Zen Peddler (12/08/06 08:02 AM)


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #6346351 - 12/08/06 08:10 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bluemeanie said:
'actually your post is all ego and no sense...
Sorry you were so easily slighted...




nah...not really, but I do expect you're going to be participating in the Bay Area hunting board alot more now, ok? I'll be looking forward to your ID posts




Edited by auweia (12/08/06 06:04 PM)


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6347051 - 12/08/06 02:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

LOL
'Yes I agree, some if this IS a long shot, but it still doesn't negate the fact that we are finding some rather 'long shots' here in the Bay Area, just by itself'

Im confused what you mean by this? What other long shots are we talking about? Maybe ive smoked too much tonight, but assume your talking about other things not shroom related?
Anyway, I dont know why Peter would jump to a long shot when there are more obvious and probable answers (which youd assume are much more likely just with reason)
Yeah Id love to get a sample of these one day - picks of teh cystidia and basidia up in this thread would help lots.

When you say that you wouldnt advise any newbies to use this as some sort of basis for finding this mushroom Id have to again disagree. Firstly, people shouldnt be basing their idea of how to ID an Psilocybe from pictures.
I mean any mushroom you find that fits the basic key - purplebrown spore print, stem and cap staining blue, possible pellical.

WOuld a person check out any mushroom that looked suspicious, even if it didnt fit their exact image of the species they have been hunting? I thought that would be logical.


If nothing else, it certainly needs further study from all of you...Just do us the courtesy of not totally ignoring it until there IS a very good consensus, eh?

Im not sure whose consensus we are talking about?

EDIT, for MJ et al...you mean to tell me that for everything you can't identify worldwide, you're just going to shove those under the umbrella of cyanofibrillosa?...why?..because nobody knows about those yet? '

Only in fairy land - Guzman might but that doesnt mean its in any way valid. Using cystidia and minor and generally unstable microscopic characteristics has been a pretty good tool in the past for IDing mushrooms within taxon, but now that we have far better methods - such as DNA or simpler spore-match compatibility tests, the ways of Guzman et al arent as relevant because they are no where near as accurate. Works in the field, but it isnt an exact answer.



--------------------


Edited by Zen Peddler (12/08/06 02:38 PM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #6347108 - 12/08/06 03:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Blue Meanie,

Regarding Guzman's qualifications, her eis a bit moe of his biography

Quote:

Instrumental in creating and leading our Veracruz tours, Dr. Gastón Guzmán, former President of the Latin American Mycological Society, has been a mycology professor and researcher for more than 40 years. In 1971 he received a grant from the Guggenheim Foundation of New York to study the genus Psilocybe, which ultimately resulted in a comprehensive book on the subject. He founded the Department and Herbarium of Fungi in Xalapa, and currently holds the Emeritus Research chair at the Ecological Institute of Xalapa. He has published more than 350 papers and nine books, including the first book, in 1977, on Mexican mushrooms.




And that is only a small part of His academic credentials.

btw, I did state above that it could be a new species, it could also be two or three new species.

I really doubt P. subaeruginosa or aeruginascens would grow in Englland. AS for P. azurescens, so dfar over the past 15 years, everyone who made small gardens of them in their homes never got the spores to spread into areas other than were they were planted.

Even Gartz has grown outdoor scores of patches in East Germany, he has never seen them reappear in places other than were he transplanted them or placed them outdoors from lab cultures in woodchips and mulch/

I can also say the same for some friends of paul stamets and I who tried growing them in Ohio,, New York, Arizona and a few European countries.

As For Gaston. 350 scientific papers are good credentials.

mj

And 99% of all edible mushroom pickers get their food shrooms from looking at one photo from leading mycologists field guides. So some pictures are a thousand words/

Again, the images I posted were all positively identified as P. cyanofibrilosa and yes there is a hell of a varience in the genera.

And as far as P. cyanescens there are patches with stems only 1/2 inch to 1 iunch and then some grow with stems up to 4-6 inches. Yet they are the same species. you should download Guzman's original book and read it.

Or if you can afford the new one when it comes out.

http://www.mexicodesconocido.com.mx/espa...b=31&idpag=3458

http://setascultivadas.com/publicaciones.html

HE also writes on many other species including Plurotus\

http://www.ecologia.edu.mx/posgrado/curs...ardo%20Mata.pdf

And he has published papers on Gymnopilus sp. And other mushrooms/

mj

z


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6347500 - 12/08/06 06:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

we gotta get some Europeans on these bay Area hunting boards to complete the international flavor and input here


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InvisibleWaylitJim
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #6347634 - 12/08/06 07:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bluemeanie said:

Pics of the cystidia and basidia up in this thread would help lots.





Bluemeanie, within a few days I'll post a composite image of an unknown bay area psilocybe. (the one in my avatar)

In the meantime, here's one to check out. Composite by Workman.

Cheliocystidia occasionally forked, but not as described for Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa. This specimen came from WA, PNW USA. It was originally described as a cyanofib.





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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: WaylitJim]
    #6347969 - 12/08/06 09:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I have seen those here also and I would have said they were a cyanofibrilosa. WE always have to rememebr that one species can have so much variation in it that it can macroscopically resemble another species at time.

But I have P. stuntzii images with the same color in
the caps. I will post a few here to show you because generally a they are a brownish to caramel color in the caps changing to a straw yellow when drying.

But see this stuntzii here below




And this one here was also identified as a P. cyanofibrilosa which is so wet that ther eis no striate margin. SOmetimes, people walking over woodchip mulch flatten the mycelia and when shrooms come up they are mutated in shape formtheir mycelial network becoming corrupted by a heavy weight cauing a mutation inthe shapes of the sp hrooms. most likely to try to protect theirselves form excess weight when stepped on before they fruit.

I have one stuntzii that looks like a clitorus because of a mutated specimen directly behind it. And agfain, this more or less resembles the ones @cro and I found and the same as the Jeremy Bigwood Speci9mens posted at Michael beug's website and not the two images in Paul Stamets book PMOFW.



mj


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