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Quankus
keep a dreamjournal


Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 362
Loc: Benicia, CA and Monterey ...
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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i got a few more of em in my gallery, check it out if ya want.
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CyanoFriscosa
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: WaylitJim]
#6355040 - 12/10/06 05:30 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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There are few psilocybes that have forked cheilocystidia - Ps.aucklandii, Ps.cyanofib and Ps.tasmaniana maybe ps.caerulipes. So that would be quite indicative of it NOT being Ps.cyanescens which definately does not have branched cystidia.
Secondly, MJ i know with 100% certainty that there are Ps.subaeruginosa growing in the UK and that they have naturalised and outcompeted a local Ps.cyanescens patch.
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: tahoe]
#6355051 - 12/10/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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If Stamets suggests that all woodlovers are descendents of Ps.subaeruginosa he is wrong. He is basing that on an an error that Guzman made relating to that mushroom having pigmented cystidia - when it doesnt.
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: Zen Peddler]
#6355162 - 12/10/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I dont see how the conclusion that this mushroom could be Ps.subaeruginascens has been made. Firstly, its never been recorded outside asia. Secondly, and probably more importantly, it has fuscoid ventricose with blunted apexes pleurocystidia, cheilocystidia fuscoid ventricose to sublageniform. No record of forked cystidia there. Ps.cyanescens, Ps.azurescens and Ps.subaeruginosa all have lageniform, lecynithform to capitate cystidia. Cyanofibrillosa doesnt have Pleurocystidia at all - which would be an obvious point in terms of identification and the cheilocystidia are supposed to be lancelate to fuscoid.
So in terms of iding this mushroom, if its got lots of pleurocystidia it probabyl doubtful that it is cyanofibrillosa. If its got forked cystidia then its doubtful that it is Ps.cyanescens, Ps.subaeruginosa or Ps.subaeruginoscens. In that case it would most likely be a new species.
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urbanism
Stranger


Registered: 06/23/03
Posts: 119
Loc: SF, CA
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: Zen Peddler]
#6362341 - 12/12/06 04:48 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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According to Tahoe... these are them. (from my hunt today in SF)




-------------------- The best things in life aren't things
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auweia
mountain biking


Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: urbanism]
#6363643 - 12/12/06 08:20 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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those are good...but you should dry them out before eating them..the ones in the first photo look like they have some bacteria on them..drying them kills the bacteria
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sui
I love you.


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,853
Loc: Cali, Contra Costa Co.
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
#6364589 - 12/13/06 12:40 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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those be them.
-------------------- "There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix
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urbanism
Stranger


Registered: 06/23/03
Posts: 119
Loc: SF, CA
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: sui]
#6370799 - 12/14/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Went back to the patch of Friscosas today to snatch a few. The patch was going banannas.
What could lurk under the shrubbery?

Why do you have to live all the way back there? (I only grabbed about 2 of these guys) This is about 1/5 of the patch.

Here's what I hauled out in 15 minutes or so of stealth ninja style clipping and picking

Here's a few of my favorites

And a close up of a nice fresh, semi-wavy specimen showing some nice bruising and stem splitting.


The biggest differences that I see between these and PS Cyans is their shorter stem, which seems weaker and more hollow and prone to splitting, sometimes un-wavy cap and general size and weight. Haven't had a chance to "try" them yet.
-------------------- The best things in life aren't things
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canid
irregular meat sprocket



Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 11,912
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
Last seen: 19 days, 17 hours
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: sui]
#6398413 - 12/22/06 11:23 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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i found my first 'friscosa' fruits sofar to look anything in form like the P. cyanofibrilosa i've seen in oregon.

not great pics, but i didn't have a cam in the field.
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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it. If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.
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spores
haploid


Registered: 02/18/99
Posts: 2,486
Loc: Washington
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: canid]
#6398443 - 12/22/06 11:44 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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wow, I can't believe you just posted that abortion of a picture concrete 
I am a big fan of those Heavy Duty Powercell batteries though.

nice find anywho, the cam should focus on them better if you lay them on a blank sheet of paper
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tahoe
Noob Slayer


Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: spores]
#6398452 - 12/22/06 11:49 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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concrete, take more pics before you dry them. I don tthink those are what we are calling friscosas. They might be that other species that other people are calling friscosas
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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canid
irregular meat sprocket



Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 11,912
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
Last seen: 19 days, 17 hours
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: tahoe]
#6398476 - 12/23/06 12:08 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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here are the pics of what i brought home: all specimens where from two clusters within a few feet of one another. deformed caps and stipes are due to growth under/around ivy tendrils [i see this alot]. the smaller three specimens lined up in the middle are the above pictured three:


again, sorry for the image quality.
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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it. If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.
Edited by concretefeet (12/23/06 01:46 AM)
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: canid]
#6398549 - 12/23/06 01:11 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ive had a chance to examine the pics by Workman of the cystidial forms of the two mushrooms that have been collected as friscosa (sp?). I guess its important to mention that when im trying to ID a shroom I sit down and record all the cystidial structures I find - even the odd or singular forms. THat way you get a good idea of the more common to least common forms. This isnt really possible with the pictures from Workman because he has just posted one image of each of the cystidia.
The first one: http://www.sporeworksgallery.com/composites/Friscosa
Looking at the spore size, pleurocystidia and cheilocystidia Id be comfortable in saying that its either Ps.cyanescens or Ps.suaberuginosa. Id reckon its pretty close to Ps.cyanescens - although the specimens Ive examined have a large amount of capitate cystidia - which we do not see in this picture. Other than that, and the spores being slightly different in shape, Id be happy with IDing this mushroom as Ps.cyanescens - sublageniform pluerocystidia, sublageniform to lageniform cheilocystidia with extended body forms and sometimes flexous necks. Perhaps Peter should examine some specimens of Ps.subaeruginosa for comparison as this mushroom is very similar to Ps.subaeruginosa.
The second specimen was: http://www.sporeworksgallery.com/composites/SanFran_azurelike
This one is much more interesting. The spore shape is quite different to any member of the Ps.cyanescens family, I did also mention the 2-spore basidia but workman told me that these werent as abundant as the photo might suggest. That being the case, Ive never heard of Ps.cyanescens having 2-spored basidia - only Ps.australiana and Ps.cyanofibrillosa. The pleurocystidia is also pretty classic sublageniform to pyriform with a neck, and cheilocystidia are pretty fucking weird - sublechyniform to well I cant really describe that second form - maybe lancelate with a swollen body??? Looking at the macroscopic appearance isnt really helpful because it appears very different. I dont think its Ps.cyanescens - Id be thinking that its either a strange regional variant of Ps.cyanofibrillosa with pleurocystidia and no forked cheilocystidia, a new species or a branching species (somewhere between Ps.cyanofibrillosa and something different.) Im probably thinking that its a new species based on what I can see, but Id have to examine the specimens myself to be a better judge of this.
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auweia
mountain biking


Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: canid]
#6398818 - 12/23/06 08:18 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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concrete, yeah I see those middle three, and I've seen that before too, but I think that specific shape is not very common...All the surrounding ones are more normal. But compare those three with the cyanofibrillosa photos on Stamets website. Notice on Stamets website how the cap margin flips up a little at the edge?, even these three don't do that
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tahoe
Noob Slayer


Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
#6399020 - 12/23/06 10:42 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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auweia
mountain biking


Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: tahoe]
#6399058 - 12/23/06 11:04 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tahoe said: this might be the one that produces teh cyclone mycelium http://www.sporeworksgallery.com/composites/SanFran_azurelike
that might be, but that's not the one in the Stamets book as cyclonic, so there one descrepancy  
Waylit might be right..the cyclone effect might have come from one substrain single spore
me thinks we got a little ways to go yet, but it's getting better. Notice also how even urbanisms patch a few posts back have that dark spot in the middle. That's very common with both the rounded and semi wavy types of 'friscosa' I think that some of these substrains that get a little wavy is more a product of habitat, but they just about all get that dark spot and inverted nipple. In fact, even concretefeets patch there has a dark spot on the older specimen.
Edited by auweia (12/23/06 11:14 AM)
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tahoe
Noob Slayer


Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
#6399069 - 12/23/06 11:11 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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nice, I didnt realize theere were pics of the fruit. These are the same with what wwe have been calling friscosas
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
#6399133 - 12/23/06 11:47 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Auweia,
After looking at the Stamets photo in PMOTW,

These two photos hardly resemble one another. The first image in the moss are approx, two and a half to three inch high mushrooms, Incurved margin and striate margins.
And Paul's second image of this species from his book are flat on the caps of some and smaler than those in the first image.
then take a look at the photo of P. cyanofibrilosa in David Arora's Mushrooms Demystified.

The above photo is of P. cyanofibrilosa and only a few resemble the photos of the P. cyanofiberillosa in Paul's book, while the Arora specimens have a few which slightly resembles a smaller version of Paul's Pictures in PMOTW, the David Arora image has much larger meatier specimens. The Arora photo was accidently mislabeled as P. cyanescens, of which it is really P. cyanofibrillosa.
Both have been aware of that error since the book first appeared in print but has never been corrected.
This next image is from 2003-2004 by @cro and shows some of the bulkier meatier specimens of P. cyanofibrillosa.

And then we have one of Jeremy Bigwood's images taken in the 1980s from Oregon of P. cyabnofibrillosa, also of much meatier stock than the Stamets original PMOTW images.

And then back to the original look, here is an image from Cardboard from the Bellingham region of northwestern Washington.

And a whole patch of the taller stemmed version of P. cyanofibrillosa by Cardboard. Also around Bellingham.

mj
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auweia
mountain biking


Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: mjshroomer]
#6399163 - 12/23/06 12:03 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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yeah mj, I see that, but Peter Werner, Sporeworks, and now Bluemeanie are all saying the ones here don't match cyanofibrillosa from Washington
the last four photos don't really look like what we see down here. The David Aurora one looks like what we see here, but not the four below it. Just something I can't quite put my finger on...somethings not right about those last 4 photos
Edited by auweia (12/23/06 12:06 PM)
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canid
irregular meat sprocket



Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 11,912
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
Last seen: 19 days, 17 hours
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: mjshroomer]
#6399368 - 12/23/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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your last two photos, with thier more petite form, resemble the form i found in oregon growing in the dunes with P. azurescens somewhat aswell. they where highly variable and often, i couldn't distinguish between them and the azures or them and the cyans, except that they where never squat or robust in those particular collections. i think we've reached a place where morphology, or at least macroscopic mrphological features, especialy as interperated from photographs is of little help.
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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it. If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.
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