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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6336188 - 12/05/06 08:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

btw,

I have been to California and even lived there for some time, and I was also there in the 1960s as well as 1994, 1997, 2001, 2003 and 2004. ANd several times inbetween all of those years dating from 1968 through 2004.

I have picked both P. cyanescens while there and seen specimens growing in situ of P. cyanofibrilosa in San Francisco (Golden Gate park and elsewhere in Marin County.

I want to post another picture of Paul Stamets here which I have permission to use and is in my book, "MMOTPNW.".

First Paul's Picture and then some from Cardboard in northwestern Washington near Bellingham, DH, @cro and Psillygirl in Seattle area and others, including Michael Beaug (Olympia and Tumwater and from Jeremy Bigwood in Oregon, this mushroom as do all Psilocybe species have certain characteristics of the generra which can be featured in many Psilocybe species.

And many belong to different stirps.

Currently, the two most important mycologists involved in Psilocybes are Prof Nooderloos and Gaston Guzman and his daughter Laura, and several others in Xalapa, Mexico. In fact, all Psilocybes which are new generally go to Guzman who is currently revising his 1983, "The Genus Psilocybe."

So Here I am presenting a short pictorial of some of the many variations in the growth and development of Psilocybe cyanofibrilosa.

The image of Pauls first picture shown above is not an image that one might say is representative of the species. I repeat that image here next to the other image in his book. Those shrooms he shows attain only a heigth of 3 inches.

And here are two images by Paul Stamets of P. cyanofibrilosa from his book, "pmotw."

Auweia showed you this image posted above as not like others he sees in San Francisco. I post my copy here of that same image posted above by Auweia.


But Auweia did not show you the 2nd image from Paul Stamet's book which looks nothing like the posted image by Stamets as posted by Auweia above.

But this image is also in Paul's book,



Now this next image of P. cyanofibrilosa is by Paul Stamets and appears in David Arora's book, "Mushrooms Demystified."
Notice the larger size of them and the convexed shape of some of the caps. Only a few smaller ones in this image resemble some of Paul's images posted directly above this one, but others here look nothing like Paul's two images in his book. But they are P. cyanofibrilosa


It was accidently mis-identified in David's book as Psilocybe cyanescens by David Arora. Both Paul and David are aware of the error in the identifucation of this species under the image in his book where it was listed as Psilocybe cyanescens. OF course, those who know P. cyanescens known that this image is not P. cyanescens. I was the first to inform both Paul and David while attending an annual Breittenbuish Mushroom Conference years ago. Those annual symposiums on shrooms are still a yearly event at Breittenbush Hot Springs Retreat.

The mistake is probably from the person who edited David's book, or maybe David at the time had never seen an image of P. cyanescens when the book was printed. Neither of them have tried to change or correct the text to that error, yet both have known of it since publication years ago.

Arora was also one person along with Gary Menser who claimed tha the gyumnopilus shrooms were active onthe east coast and void of chemical content in specimens formthe west coast (That shows misidentification of Gym Species).

These two P. cyanofibrilosas are by Cardboard near Bellingham somewhere.


by Jeremy Bigwood


by @cro in Seattle


by Psillygirl:


By DH:


By HongoMeester:


by J. Webb in San Francisco


by Psillygirl


by @cro






This next image was taken by Jochen Gartz while he and I were collecting specimens of P. stuntzii in 1991 in Eugene, Oregon at a local shopping mall along the Willamette River. He mailed these back to Germany from Salem, Oregon and later identified them also as Psilocybe cyanofibrilosa. Notice some have semi-conical caps. And they blued extemely instense after about five minutes.



And here are some images taken by me when shrooming with @cro and Psillygirl and by just @cro and I. These were also identified by Guzman for me as P. cyanofibrilosa









As in P. cyanescens, the stems of P. cyanofibrilosa can be either 1/2 to 2 to 3 inches in height or as much as 4-6 inches or taller.

They can also grow singular and/or cespitose and in clumps and/or clusters.

They can also grow in grassy areas where mulch was originally on the ground and sod was replaced over the mulch or they can appear in grassy areas along mulch beds where the lawn mowers have clipped the edges of the mulched areas alongside the grassy areas.

And, being Psilocybes. they have many similar characteristics of the genera Psilocybe.

But then so do Deconica, Naematoloma, Agrocybe, and even the deadly three Galerina species also mimic macroscopically several species of Psilocybe, by color as well as by shape.

mj


Edited by mjshroomer (12/05/06 09:09 PM)


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Offlinethetonebone72
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6336236 - 12/05/06 09:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Excellent pictorial MJ!! There was a thread not too long ago that was bemoaning the fact that there were so few pics available of cyanofibrilosa. I was only familiar with the two from Stamets and although I have MD I never knew that the pic of cyanescens was in fact fibs so thanks for the clarification of that error. Now all I've got to do is find some!!!


--------------------
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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: thetonebone72]
    #6336272 - 12/05/06 09:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

right, one of those photos is mine, but none of them get a flat cap like the top photo. ever.

and that's what you have on your website, MJ, and copied from Stamets website.

Basically, if people do a Google search for cyanofibrillosa, they're going to find the top photo (the one on your website) On your own website you describe 70% loss in potency on drying. I've never seen that here either. All the ones below that top one I recognize, just not the one posted on your own website


Edited by auweia (12/05/06 09:30 PM)


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6336303 - 12/05/06 09:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think the Gartz one might be different..the larger one lower right..Never seen them get flat like that..that's similar to the top one a little


Edited by auweia (12/05/06 09:38 PM)


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OfflineCiv
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6336665 - 12/05/06 11:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Only one of those pics looks like Ps. cyanfriscosa, but the others don't. Why compare with pics from mushrooms 900 miles away? anyone that has held one or seen a frisc in person would know. I find cyan fibs in SONORA (oh yeah mushrooms of the motherload) <-- yeah and they look nothing like ps.cyanfriscosa. They are not even half the size as a frisco.


--------------------
"...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender.
So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..."  -Agar


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6336717 - 12/05/06 11:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

About the use of the Stamets photos. I paid him cash for the rights to those two photographs for my book and use as I see fit. So they were not copies.

Garzt examined a pooled collection of those mushrooms from Eugene, including the conical capped ones. They all were identified as P. cyanofibrilosa.

the last image I posted also has no umbos, or protrudes or nipples as do the cyans.

Not sure which photo is yours in my pictorial. I used those according to the ones people gave me permission to use.

AS I no longer own the mj shroom world site, I am slow in sending data to the brothers who run the site.

I still have numerous papers I am working on and at the same tiem I am trying to create some new pages of Thailand.

I have not even began to create the portion of the shroom world site for other edible and non-edible and toxic shrooms. I have thousands of images of those to sift through and then identify, plus ones I already i have identified.

Let me known which image I posted came from you and I will add your name there for a correction.

mj


One last note.

Guzman, I, Stamets, Arora, Menser, Bob Harris, Steve Jules, Jon Ott, Andrew WEil, Dick Schultes, Rolf Singer, Rich Gee, Gary Lincoff, Michael Beug, Daniel Stuntz, Orson Miller, and many others have also misidentified species, sometimes based on the reliance of an expert mycologist or their published latin descriptions, so the San fran species could be new or just a variation of an already exiting species. However, those mushrooms are also sometimes seen here in the PNW.

I collected a beautiful large cluster of a species in 1986 which was lost in mailing and never seen since. IT to resembled your collections but had over 120 specimens in the cluster. IT looked like one giant shroom from afar which was composed of over 120 shrooms.

Also one collection of a new species I collected in Thailand was completley eaten by gheckos and then shit into powder from them. The shrooms were placed in a metal tray and placed on a cabinet in one of the offices and forgotten about until I returned the following year. When my colleague brought the tray off the top of the cabinet, about ten gheckos leapped from it stoned out of their minds and all that was there was shroom powder looking like dust


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6336815 - 12/05/06 11:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

naw, it's no problem about my photo..

that's the one I sent to Stamets the next day..back in 2002, and he emailed back asking me permission to put it in his upcoming book, mycelium running, and I said sure, but he never got back to me and it was never printed, so I dunno. You, or anyone else is free to use it. As far as I know, that's still one of the earliest photos from the Bay Area.

I should also say that this photo also isn't really normal for what we see down here. In fact, that spot is in Golden Gate Park and never came up again after that. I have another one the same year that looks a little more normal, but this here is much more normal >

This is the stuff that's becoming very common here. Big puppies too These here are 3 inches across


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OfflineOregonBluesGil
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6336926 - 12/06/06 12:02 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You guys know your shit,So get together down in San Francisco and Figure This Whole thing out,But Hey Dont listen to me I'm Just A nobody,Who might just move backm to Oregon in the Next few Weeks,Enjoy,Live life to the fullest,We're all in this thing together,There are people out there that think what we do is stupid and a waste of timee,I say to those People Go Uck yourself.


--------------------
I'm in a Magical Mushroom land!


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: OregonBluesGil]
    #6337093 - 12/06/06 01:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

well, I'd be happy to show MJ a place or too to see this local variety. I think I offered Stamets the same thing once. But no matter, I've already shown Peter Werner one of my better spots, and he's one of the few I would show that too, cause I know he's not going to rape it or blab it all over. That should be good enough till we get this all sorted out. He's in close enough contact with Stamets, basically replacing Stamets for California stuff, especially this type here.

So he knows what I've been seeing, and I'm sure he's getting some cultures from other Bay Area spots too. I'm just saying the ones down here don't look alot like the ones up in Washington


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Invisible@cro
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: OregonBluesGil]
    #6337148 - 12/06/06 01:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Hey John, the group of 5 photos of mine that look all beat up are actually the ones I took you to that fruit in the springtime. I took those into Dr. Ammirati just cause they seemed a little strange. He said they aren't actually cyanofibrillosa, and sent them off to SF to be studied. I haven't kept up on him to find out if there were any conclusions from it, maybe if I remember I'll find out.

@cro


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Invisible@cro
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa *DELETED* [Re: OregonBluesGil]
    #6337164 - 12/06/06 01:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by @cro

Reason for deletion: double post



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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: @cro]
    #6337299 - 12/06/06 02:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: tahoe]
    #6337335 - 12/06/06 02:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

poor frustrated tahoe wants more pics! more rain! :banghead:


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6337680 - 12/06/06 03:32 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Mmmmm!!!  This is getting exciting!  Don't stop now!  :wink:

I talked with Stamets about this, explaining the current debate.  He said Guzman and Peter were looking into it as far as he knew, and I told him that MJ said that Guzman thinks they are cyanofibrillosa so far.  I told him also, about Auweia's casual mating experiment, and he said it would be an interesting experiment to try mating the SF psilocybes with cyanofibrillosa and cyanescens on agar in petri dishes, each about 10 times for each species, and see what results.


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Invisiblesui
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: Civ]
    #6337883 - 12/06/06 04:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Civ said:
Only one of those pics looks like Ps. cyanfriscosa, but the others don't. Why compare with pics from mushrooms 900 miles away? anyone that has held one or seen a frisc in person would know. I find cyan fibs in SONORA (oh yeah mushrooms of the motherload) <-- yeah and they look nothing like ps.cyanfriscosa. They are not even half the size as a frisco.




This one right?



This photo was taken by hongomeester. Ive met him and he lives in the bay. This is an old photo from before all the friscosa stuff happened. They are friscosas.


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it."
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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: sui]
    #6338029 - 12/06/06 04:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, that's what I see too, in the mid size range


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Invisiblepsiclops
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6338747 - 12/06/06 07:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It seems to me that your argument is:

"I haven't seen it like that, so it cant be."

Not a good argument. Good form but your premise is bad.

Later.


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: psiclops]
    #6339058 - 12/06/06 08:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

well, over the years I've seen maybe 10,000 of these. I'm not saying it's impossible for the stamets photo of cyanofibrillosa to occur down here, but it sure doesn't seem like that's what people are going to find.

I mean, if somebody told me that cyanofibrillosa grew in the bay area, and I looked it up and found that photo, I wouldn't be picking what I've been seeing

I think part of the problem is that many people find these in defferent stages of growth. When they're younger I bet alot of this looks very similar, but upon maturity they get so different.

Usually, when people put up a photo like Stamets, it's to represent a middle ground, a good healthy specimen to give a good indicator. Just about every species I've seen is like that, at least the ones I've picked, cyans, libertys, etc. Most people have a good representative photo on their website.

except for this cyanofibrillosa. I'm sure they do look like that in Washington, but after all this time I've never seen one like that here, I've never seen anyone else post photos that look like that either. If it was sometimes they looked like that I wouldn't bother mentioning it, but none of them look like that. It's not just me, there's quite a few others that posted San Francisco varieties here too in the last couple years...look for 'fibs' forum in the past

yeah, it's still possible that type can grow here, but the odds are getting worse as time goes on...

Oh and one other thing, if that type in Washington doesn't exist down here, we're not going to be able to prove that you know? because the way you're describing it, it's always going to be an open question, no matter how much time passes without us seeing that


Edited by auweia (12/06/06 09:06 AM)


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6339204 - 12/06/06 09:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, well what you describe could still be indicative of a phenotypic variant common to SF, such as a strain.
What makes a strain of cubensis different from another?? They are the same species, and can mate, however, evident differences persist throughout certain regions.

Not saying it is anything... just making suggestions.


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: CureCat]
    #6339253 - 12/06/06 09:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, you're right...I've looked at photos of many strains of cubies..I can see variations in all of those and still see it's the same species too.

Cubies can vary alot, but this varies even more. I can't think of any species with more extreme variation than fibrillosa. Almost seems like it's pushing the limits, and it just might be


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