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Offlinecanid
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: pscyanescens]
    #6423766 - 01/04/07 02:43 AM (17 years, 28 days ago)



somewhat seperable even though these where a bit watterlogged.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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OfflineQuankus
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: canid]
    #6423801 - 01/04/07 03:40 AM (17 years, 28 days ago)

Oregon- looks like a healthy patch of cyanofriscosa. very nice

where ya from?


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CyanoFriscosa


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: canid]
    #6424028 - 01/04/07 09:28 AM (17 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

concretefeet said:


somewhat seperable even though these where a bit watterlogged.




Yeah I see that. It seems to me the definition of pellicle is a little stretched tho. I mean, I've been able to do that before, but I never called that a pellicle like liberty caps

On liberty caps it's often something you can lift off like a jelly, and it's really obvious. But then again, even the fibs have more of a 'skin' than say, paneaolous

that just means a 'pellicle' has a wider definition than I thought. But still, many times you're not going to see that on cyans, so it shouldn't be a deciding factor.

it sounded like this one guy was using the pellicle as a defining factor in ID


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OfflineOregonBluesGil
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6424104 - 01/04/07 10:12 AM (17 years, 27 days ago)

those finds are up here in humboldt,ca.We have been getting some good rain and sun,hope people enjoy the pics


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I'm in a Magical Mushroom land!


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6425045 - 01/04/07 03:40 PM (17 years, 27 days ago)

it's still a pellicle even thugh it's not easily seperable. the distinction comes in the type of membrane it's comprised of, in this case, a transuscent gelataenous one, characeristic of Psilocybes.

[edit: in the case of Psilocybes, this specific type of pellicle is a [though not the only] key identifying feature, at least within the strophariacaea, and only loosely for delineating species within the genus and only then where the particular nature of the pellicle is helpful.]


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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Offlineurbanism
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: canid]
    #6425144 - 01/04/07 04:12 PM (17 years, 27 days ago)

Here's a few pics from today in SF:





Three's company...



A ps cyan and a "Friscosa". Friscosa is much meatier, thicker and has a shorter stem.



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The best things in life aren't things


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: OregonBluesGil]
    #6425461 - 01/04/07 05:53 PM (17 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

OregonBluesGil said:
those finds are up here in humboldt,ca.We have been getting some good rain and sun,hope people enjoy the pics



So those would be cyanohumboltsa


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


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OfflineOregonBluesGil
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: tahoe]
    #6426104 - 01/04/07 08:46 PM (17 years, 27 days ago)

Ahh waht to do,Its fixed sorry for inconvenice


--------------------
I'm in a Magical Mushroom land!


Edited by OregonBluesGil (01/05/07 11:20 AM)


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InvisibleburtonRebel
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: OregonBluesGil]
    #6426133 - 01/04/07 08:55 PM (17 years, 27 days ago)

or how about cyanefriscumboltescen?


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: OregonBluesGil]
    #6426136 - 01/04/07 08:55 PM (17 years, 27 days ago)

twas ever thus


Edited by auweia (01/05/07 09:48 AM)


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6426998 - 01/05/07 02:50 AM (17 years, 27 days ago)

...And thus...


--------------------


Edited by Zen Peddler (01/05/07 08:12 PM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #6427407 - 01/05/07 09:29 AM (17 years, 26 days ago)

Blue meanie said:

Quote:
I'm sorry but what MJ proposes is ludicrous. Obviously he has just decided that its now a new species and wants to be involved in it.




And also this comment
Quote:



In three years. Why would it take him three years to publish something? LOL. Maybe he just wants some of your glory... But did you find it first?
It isnt proper form to list the name of the person that makes the collections - its the person who publishes it first that should get the credit, and if they go and publish something before doing the proper checks they might end up with egg on their faces (Guzman subaeruginosa complex, etc).
Those mushrooms look like subaeruginosa - Ive changed my mind - i think some of them may be subs... Its certainly possible given the fact that subaeruginosa has been know to outcompete other psilocybes and is also known to exploit and co-habit the same habitats as Ps.cyanescens.
How about someone ask Peter if he wants some specimens of subaeruginosa for comparison.??




Another quote from Blue Meanie:
Quote:

Why would it take him three years to publish something?




It now takes from 1-3 years for a journal to publish an article. More people submit. The article is sent to the journals editor, then resent to three reviewers around the world who are on the boards of the various journals. They review, they send back to the journal with suggestions to shorten or remove items from the paper.

The 100-paged Distribution of the Species by Guzmán, me and Gartz, took three years to publish.

The original article I wrote on Australian and New Zealand
which appeared in the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs in 1990 took a year and a half to write and correspondence with several dozen other people from down under to correct and verify my findings, a visit to the continent and then three people editing and reviewing and then the submission to the journal and then waiting on the reviews, almost 27 pages were edited out of the original article and then another year and a half before publication.

My recent paper P. antioquensis paper took almost two years to be published after submission to the International Journal of Medicinal Mushrooms and it is only five pages.

Then you stated that:
Quote:

It isnt proper form to list the name of the person that makes the collections




Yes it is and that is in the Chicago Manual of Style. The book used for proper form of writing for scientific journals and other public notices.

Every deposited collection in herbariums has the name and date of deposit and the name of the person who collected it and what herbariumn it is stored in, as well as a deposit number to identify the collection and is in written as such and published in 99% of most papers on the taxonomy of species.

So Blue Meanie, for an simple example here is one such paper on P. pelliculosa specimens on deposit in herbariums in mexico, even I am listed by name for a collection from 1983 the Genus Psilocybe from a Seattle collection I made in 1977.



After you enlarge the image, right click the mouse onthebottom right corner of the paper tio read.

This is a good example of some mushroom collections. I am sure you will recognize some of the names of those who deposited this species found in clear cuts in the PNW from Humbolt county north to B.C, Canada and in parts of Europe. However, most clear cuttings are now illegal.

So your comments about peoples names in journals for herbarium deposits is incorrect.

What was said to Oregonbluegills is from a private pm message and should not have been posted here at all because it was a private conversation which we talked about in a pm./ It is a violation of rules to talk about what is said in a pm message.

I said it could be a new species and offered to do SEM and Chemical analysis which i can do in Bangkok legally. I do not want to get into anything about it now because of his and your comments.

AS for the name , The paper I suggested to him was for the chemistry and for the SEM work which I also can do in bangkok. Of course every herbarium collection used in an article gets a number and the name of whoever sent in the collectiona and where the location was and the habitat.

I can write those papers once a name is provided.

Guzmán already has several collections from several Californians who sent them to him on my suggestion,but Oregonbluegfils shrooms looked to me more like P. cyanofibrilosa speciemens similar to the images I already posted here of P. cyanofibrilosa rather than the normal shrooms people are calling P. cyuanofriscosa,A name which probably will not be used whent eh mushrooms identity is published by Guzmán in his revision of the genus Psilocybe.

Since I already have SEMs of P. cyanofibrilosa, I can do a comparative analysis of if and other collections and show whether they are the same species or not.

Blue meanie, This is not your affair.

Pollock had only one known specimen, P. tampanensis when he found it and he and Guzmán wrote the taxonomy from the one specimen and named it. And all the P. tampanensis of todays sclerotia came from a few spores scraped from the cap of that loan specimen found by Pollock in 1976. And from those spores, Pollock was able to grow massive shrooms of the specie sand produced the "cosmic comote" (Philosophers Stones) for the world (sclerotia of P. tampanensis).

You need to read your email. I am a little pissed at your comments and you should read the pm I sent to you about this matter and maybe stayed glued to your Australian shroom work because that is what you have experience in. Not that of the PNW where you have never been.

There are currently on deposit in several herbariums in Mexico over two dozen species of Psilocybe in the genera where there are only from one or two to five specimens deposited in certain herbariums of an individual suspected new species and used in formulating the taxonomy and naming of a species.

While Pollock's P. tampanensis was named from one fresh mushroom specimen only and found in Tampa, Florida in 1978, it was never seen again recorded or collected by anyone until a small collection was discovered in Mississippi in 1996. Many named species do not have any chance of 12 possible collections to study them and others have hundreds of collections deposited in herbariums.

mj

This is why I deleted over 12,000 photographs from this site because of people like you making rude unwarranted comments about thier assuming they known U.S. shrooms and about those who have done the major research in their 30-50 years in their lifetimes such as Guzmán, or Watling and others you obviously do not like or the results of their lifes works.

Oh btw, yes, we now have DNA confirmation of Psilocybe eucalypta as an individual species separate from P. subaeruginosa and P. tasmaiana.

And I also have in bangkok now several collections of the P. suaeruginosa mushrooms, or what people who sent them to us identified them as.

And now I think maybe I need to stay away from here for another six months or so.

have a shroomy day
mj


Edited by mjshroomer (01/05/07 12:35 PM)


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6427428 - 01/05/07 09:40 AM (17 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:


This is why I deleted over 12,000 photographs from this site because of people like you making rude unwarranted comments about thier assuming they known U.S. shrooms and about those who have done the major research in their 30-50 years in their lifetimes such as Guzmán, or Watling and others you obviously do not like or the results of their lifes works.
have a shroomy day
mj




Guzman has looked at these before too, i heard. I like Guzman. he is smart person

just give me some crayons and I'll be happy for hours, but Guzman is smart


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6427440 - 01/05/07 09:44 AM (17 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:
And now I think maybe I need to stay away from here for another six months or so.





Its your decision to make.


--------------------
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I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
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OfflineOregonBluesGil
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6427667 - 01/05/07 11:32 AM (17 years, 26 days ago)

sorry to have to make you Stay away from 6 months,Its all my fought.I didn't mean to bring you heat.But I'm trying to move on from this mistake,I've read a book(I think yours Mj)about Clear cuts full of Cyans,Because the Smaller alder Trees,get Crushed by the Cat bulldozers,turing theminto chipped wood and being so close to the ocean that Spores travel in the air up the side of a mountain and germiate right there


--------------------
I'm in a Magical Mushroom land!


Edited by OregonBluesGil (01/05/07 11:57 AM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: OregonBluesGil]
    #6427804 - 01/05/07 12:15 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

This is the SEM I use to make my images and here is an SEM photograph I made of Cactu's Psilocybe laurae. WE did this in less then three months and with chemical analysis included in our research, after Guzmán publishes his revision of the Genus Psilocybe, Cactu and I and Gartz will publish on the chemistry and distribution of the species and then also Shroomy Dan, I, Gartz and Smy Thai Colleague will publish on the chemistry, cultivation and SEM of the mushrooms from Ohio. Dan's work took a little longer due to waiting for appointments to et to the SEMs. It takes a month to 2 months to get in to use them in Thailand.

WE are also working on two species, P. cubensis form Thailand and p. samuiensis. WE now have a new indol from both species. Those papers will appear in a forensic or chemical journal.



And here is an SEM of the mushroom from Shroomy Dan in Ohio which we have examined, conducted chemical analysis and await on Guzmán's taxonomic work,.


mj


Edited by mjshroomer (01/05/07 12:27 PM)


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6429237 - 01/05/07 08:14 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

I based my comments on what I originally read in this thread - after reading you pm my post has been deleted.


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Offlinepscyanescens
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #6429607 - 01/05/07 10:09 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

So glad to see a pellicle picture thanks concretefeet.

Pellicles are in many textures and thicknesses. If you look at a pellicle from one type of mushroom and assume all are the same that is not factual. Not many books involve identification having to do much with the presence of a pellicle, probably because they are not always separable. This doesn't mean you shouldn't check for your own personal knowledge.


--------------------
----------------
"With an abundance of Cyanescens... i would never touch another Cubensis again."


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: pscyanescens]
    #6430747 - 01/06/07 10:59 AM (17 years, 25 days ago)

yeah, you could call it a pellicle...see, the thing that seems a little strange to me...it's the first time I've ever seen a reference to pellicle on cyanescens. I can't find any reference to it here in the past.

the only thing I did find was this http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6404710/an/0/page/0

gee, and that looks like Curecat wondering aloud about the pellicle, but then I get tackled for it.hmmm....is this one of those shroomey side effects?..curecat posts and I get tackled?


well, anyway, I just thought it was weird because it's about the only time I've ever seen anybody mention a pellicle on cyanescens..It's not just me, I've never heard anybody else mention it before this

basically, it's the definition of pellicle that got me..i just thought it was a skin on cyanescens, as opposed to a pellicle on liberty caps

this is just the first time I've ever heard of that skin being referred to as a pellicle, that's all


Edited by auweia (01/06/07 11:01 AM)


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Invisiblespores
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6430807 - 01/06/07 11:19 AM (17 years, 25 days ago)

gee thanks auweia, I'm glad you're allowing us to call it a pellicle.

the only 'reference' I've ever seen of cyanescens and similar mushrooms not having a pellicle was from you.  I have a hunch that's where curecat got the idea.

you were wrong, it's alright, no one gives a shit.  people might be nicer about it if you hadn't acted like you were definitely right and everyone else was wrong though.

:smirk:


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