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Invisiblespores
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6434229 - 01/07/07 12:08 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

spores said:
and thanks again, for letting this go and not posting a long, drawn out, content barren response to this.





so much for that :rolleyes:.

no one cares why you didn't know that Ps. cyanescens has a pellicle or what a pellicle is.

we want to call it a pellicle because it is one, a real one.  no one said it sometimes had a pellicle or didn't have a pellicle, except you.  until someone competent shows us otherwise, I'm going to assume that Ps. cyanescens has a pellicle, everywhere it grows.  if you really want to I'll let you call it an "un-real like semilanceata pellicle", but you should know that others will, correctly, call it a pellicle regardless of what distinctions you want to make, what is seen with liberty caps and what you knew or didn't know.

concretefeet's picture doesn't look all that different from the liberty cap pic to me.

Also, the fact there are one or more Psilocybes of questionable identity growing down there that may be mistaken for P. cyanofibrillosa does not mean that P. cyanofibrillosa does not grow there.  It has been reported from california many times.  spare us your anecdotes and references to shitty old stamets pictures.  I find reports from mycological society forays and such to hold (a lot) more weight than half baked speculation on an internet message board for psilocybe hunters.  cyanofibrillosa is cyanofibrillosa, regardless of where it grows.  there is no REAL distinction between 'cyanofibrillosa from the PNW/Washington', as you refer to it, and any other cyanofibrillosa.  that's entirely your creation, again.  probably somehow resulting from your strange need to ensure the entire world knows and recognizes that there is a 'new' psilocybe that is not cyanofibrillosa in the bay area, for some reason. 

we know, people (hopefully qualified ones) are working on it.  no one is disagreeing with it or arguing otherwise.  but the seemingly endless stream of speculation and plain bullshit coming from this thread and others on the subject is doing more to confuse hunters  that read these forums than really help anything from what I have seen. 

:shrug:


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: spores]
    #6434247 - 01/07/07 12:16 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

spores said:
there is no REAL (known/documented) distinction between 'cyanofibrillosa from the PNW/Washington', as you refer to it, and any other cyanofibrillosa.





yeah, I think there is a distinction. the ones in the bay Area do not have a forked cystidia, the ones in Wash do.

I think the MSSF said that


actually, I got a PM once asking me about dosage of fibrillosa here in the bay area...

this is a legitimate question, right?

what are these? and how many do you eat?



1? 2? 10? 15?

what about after drying?..they lose most of they're potency after drying, is that right?


Edited by auweia (01/07/07 12:48 PM)


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Invisiblespores
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6434309 - 01/07/07 12:48 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

so you're saying every specimen ever collected in california and identified as P. cyanofibrillosa did not have forked cheilocystidia?

did you look at any of them under the scope to check? no, it appears you've never looked at anything under the scope. correct me if I'm wrong.

did anyone? maybe, maybe not.

does that mean it's logical to conclude cyanofibrillosa does not grow there? No.

people more competent in identification than yourself or I have said they do, and I'm going to believe that, other people should as well.

arguing that you can tell how potent woodloving psilocybes are compared to other woodloving psilocybes by eating them is rediculous. there's no way to tell that from the subjective experience of a trip (or 100). until we see some chemical analyses, your assertion is based on nothing as far as I'm concerned.


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: spores]
    #6434314 - 01/07/07 12:50 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

spores said:
so you're saying every specimen ever collected in california and




no, I'm asking a question...see above

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6434247#Post6434247


Edited by auweia (01/07/07 12:53 PM)


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Invisiblespores
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6434331 - 01/07/07 12:59 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

auweia said:
yeah, I think there is a distinction. the ones in the bay Area do not have a forked cystidia, the ones in Wash do.





looks like more of a statement than a question. a statement based on no facts at all, and not on personal observation. in fact I have no idea what it's based on, other than the delusions of auweia.

yeah, I'm ignoring your stupid question because the answer is meaningless. I don't give a shit how many mushrooms anyone eats or how much potency you are saying they lose or keep when dried. you have no facts to back you up on that other than 'well I ate some of these and they were fuckin strong d00d!!!!'.

psychoactive potency is not a characteristic taken into consideration for identifying mushrooms. it is too variable and the subjective experience of trips are too variable to make any assumptions about it based on eating mushrooms, without actually quantifying the chemicals.


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: spores]
    #6434343 - 01/07/07 01:04 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

spores said:
Quote:

auweia said:
yeah, I think there is a distinction. the ones in the bay Area do not have a forked cystidia, the ones in Wash do.





looks like more of a statement than a question. a statement based on no facts at all, and not on personal observation. in fact I have no idea what it's based on, other than the delusions of auweia.

yeah, I'm ignoring your stupid question because the answer is meaningless. I don't give a shit how many mushrooms anyone eats or how much potency you are saying they lose or keep when dried. you have no facts to back you up on that other than 'well I ate some of these and they were fuckin strong d00d!!!!'.

psychoactive potency is not a characteristic taken into consideration for identifying mushrooms.





Ok, sorry, that was just something peter Werner of the MSSF posted once here, that they don't have a forked cystida...sorry I mentioned it

I have a question tho..what do I tell the guy who asked me how many to eat?




how many?


Edited by auweia (01/07/07 01:08 PM)


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6434355 - 01/07/07 01:08 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

lord please, please lord! Tell me! When will it end?????


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


Teh=The

I need to proofread


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Invisiblespores
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6434361 - 01/07/07 01:09 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

auweia said:
I'm not going to get that question answered am I?





nope, just like you ignored my question about every specimen ever collected in california and identified as P. cyanofibrillosa not having forked cheilocystidia... maybe you can point me to where Peter said that every specimen ever collected in cali and ID'd as P. cyanofibrillosa lacked forked cheilocystidia. I doubt anyone who knew what they were talking about would say something so dumb, so I wont hold my breath.

nope, I don't tell people how many mushrooms to eat. or try to identify mushrooms I'm not sure about from pictures. if I'm not sure about something, I don't jump to conclusions with a lack of evidence and try to pass them off as facts. you should try that sometime.


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: spores]
    #6434379 - 01/07/07 01:15 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)


Oh I did. I told him I couldn't say...maybe he'll ask somebody who knows, cause I sure don't

jeez, tahoe...I got a PM asking me what the dosage for those are..man oh man, people asked that all the time about cyanescens before and they got answers

sorry I asked :tongue:


Edited by auweia (01/07/07 01:21 PM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6434645 - 01/07/07 03:14 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

A point on potency levels in species.

Most levels of potency in analysis are determined by a pooled collection of them being ground into one gram piles of powdered shrooms , Then a dosage level is made based on a gram weight per pooled collection.

However, each individual mushroom contains a different amount of the various active ingredients set apart from a single specimen of the same species being analyzed and it will have a different amount of the various chemicals in that one then in the first one analyzed. so each individual dose with one or two shrooms of potency per mushroom can have a different amount of chemicals in it to make a difference in the high from one shroom to another.

Mj

No two mushrooms have the same ampouont of chemicals within them from one another.

And as noted, P cyanofibrilosa in Washing is no digfferent than P. cyanofibrilosa in Oregon or in California. Theya r the same shroom.

Even right now some amateur Shroomery mycologists are trying to say to say the P. cyanescens in England is different than the ones in Washington and/or the PNW. Some of that talk is also being generated by one of my colleagues, Jochen Gartz, of Leipzig, Germany.

mjshroomer
I think he is wrong and have told him so


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6434664 - 01/07/07 03:23 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

ok...is there a ballpark figure for cyanofibrillosa then?...2?...100?

I mean, there is an average dose for cyanescens, is there not?

let's see http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-Calculator


half a gram dried for cyanescens for level 1

ok...but there's nothing there for cyanofibrillosa


Edited by auweia (01/07/07 03:35 PM)


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Invisiblespores
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6434876 - 01/07/07 04:48 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

ahh the shroomery dosage calculator.  that magnificent fusion of science and technology.  wonderous arbiter of mushroom fact.  it may yet hold the key to the mysteries of the bay area psilocybe...

who dares to argue the almighty dosage calculator?

fork your cheilocystidia!! :lol:

:smirk:


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: spores]
    #6434910 - 01/07/07 04:59 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

ok...so how much is it for cyanofibrillosa?...same as cyans?...less?... more?


Edited by auweia (01/07/07 04:59 PM)


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Invisiblespores
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6435017 - 01/07/07 05:24 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

uhhh, let me go pick a bunch of samples of them from different places, verify their identity and run them through the HPLC lab setup that I have right here next to my computer.  after that I'll type up a handy dandy list, calculate the average potency, let you know what it is and then wonder wtf that has to do with anything.

hold on, I'll just be a minute...

:smirk:


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: spores]
    #6435049 - 01/07/07 05:31 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

ok...that's ok, forget it


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Offlinepscyanescens
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6435753 - 01/07/07 08:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Caulorhiza umbonata
This is a real pellicle too.


This is not what you will see from a Cyanescens or Cyanofibrillosa. From the pictures i have seen you won't see this on Semilanceata either.

However this is still a very real, very separable pellicle. Just another example of the variations of pellicles.


--------------------
----------------
"With an abundance of Cyanescens... i would never touch another Cubensis again."


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Offlinepscyanescens
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: pscyanescens]
    #6435894 - 01/07/07 08:57 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Auweia:
If you have 'Psilocybe Mushrooms of the World' there is a section in there that list percentages by weight in a graph form of psilocin, psilocybin, and beaocystin. I don't know how accurate they are or how the study was conducted. I am not arguing that every mushroom is different in potency's. However to a certain extent it can be estimated with some accuracy. For example you wouldn't expect 2 stunzii to get you as high as 2 Azurescens.

I am almost positive i have seen the percentages in posted on other websites as well.

Cyanofibrillosa, from what i recall, is about half the potency of Cyanescens, maybe less. I would recommend eating twice the amount as a normal desired Cyanescens trip. I must mention i have never consumed Cyanfibrillosa this is just from what i have read.

I have found them before but used them to start some mycelium. Hope it takes!!



--------------------
----------------
"With an abundance of Cyanescens... i would never touch another Cubensis again."


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: pscyanescens]
    #6435914 - 01/07/07 09:03 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

ok, thanks...twice the amount(of cyans) it is then...hehe


Edited by auweia (01/07/07 09:04 PM)


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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: pscyanescens]
    #6435928 - 01/07/07 09:08 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

a dose of cyanofriscosa, since this is the cyanofriscosa thread should be no more than 2 grams unless you're expereinced and prepared to trip kinda hard. (Its so hard to dose someone who knows nothing about mushrooms because they immediately think. "An 8th right?" )
these are much stronger then cubensis, so an 8th to someone naive is just asking for a bad trip.

obviously we all know trip depends on a lot of factors, but when i dose other people i never give them more than 2gs. usually 1.4-1.9 for a medium level trip.

I think the stems are a huge factor that nobdoy is really talking about. A major distinct characteristic of cyanofriscosa and cyanofibrillosa is the stem difference. Friscosas are really short and stubby, always. They are low to the ground, they do not grow tall like cyans or cyanofibrillosa.

They do not lose their potency after drying like auweia states, which should be an influencial factor becuase if it's a fact that cyanofibs lose a noticable amount of potency after drying in washington or oregon and these cyanofibs/friscosas in the bay area DON'T. Then isnt that an obvious sign that they arent the exact same mushroom.

they could easily be mutations, or adaptations but at the same time a new species. anything is possible


--------------------

CyanoFriscosa


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Re: Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa [Re: auweia]
    #6435942 - 01/07/07 09:12 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

i find 2 grams of the fib/friscosas to be a good trip comparable to an 8th of cubes :tripping:


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