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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: Deviate]
    #5493298 -

Thats what I was just going to reply! :thumbup:

Temptress was also trying to make something out to look like something that has basis in objective reality when in fact it doesn't.

Indeed, assuming anyone believed the world was going to end  in 2000, certainly doesn't any more if they are still alive. Find one person alive today who believes the world ended in the year 2000.

Some people disillusioned with our governments magically forseeing abilities, "believed" Bush would find WMD in Iraq before the invasion. He didn't find any. Now they know, our government acted on either false evidence or that the reason for invasion was a hoax.

Find ONE human being who believed Bush would find them, that NOW believes they were found.

Thats where your argument is unfounded in an objective reality base.

Now lets look at where its also meaningless.


One person caught selling synthetic fur as real fur, doesn't now mean everyone selling fur is automatically guilty of selling synthetic fur as well.

It makes no rational or logical sense to make such broad assumptions.

Some people believed that if they studied hard in school, they would get a college degree and make a decent living. That belief came to prove true for some and not others.

Was it or was it not, a false belief for everyone to have, because it proved false for a few?

Put on your critical thinking skills cap. :smirk:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: Temptress]
    #5493334 -

Did you bother to notice exactly what remark those words were a response to? There is nothing "cheap" about the words that come from me, and the use of a literary device to render the word in a mercenary way was just that - a literary device. I don't like being called a liar because it is an offence against Truth, which is what I endeavor to be conformed to.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5493473 -

I don't understand what the purpose of posing such a question is beyond simple provocation.

Its purpose is to demonstrate how mystic heads are dead-set in their ways and will not allow that mysticism may be a myth, even in principle.

I think it succeeded at that.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (04/08/06 06:17 PM)

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: Diploid]
    #5493512 -

I think you are mixing terms here. Existence and truth. Mysticism as a myth ?
Mysticism exists, but it has not to be true exclusively, even there are cases, where fantasies hit the nail, especially in cases of speculations, which are part of science, too.

I will keep the term matter-heads :smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: Deviate]
    #5493517 -

i am willing to wager that when it didn't, they accepted the fact

Check out how many people still buy into Uri Geller's bullshit despite him having been embarrassingly exposed as a fraud on the Johnny Carson show years ago.

Check out how many people still call psychic hot-lines despite Ms. Cleo being disgraced and exposed as a fraud.

Check out how many millions of dollar Sylvia Brown hauls in year after year despite her refusal to submit to a simple test of her powers that she agreed to back in the 90s.

Check out how many True Believers still attend (and pay for admission) reverend Peter Popoff's prayer meetings by the hundreds of thousands even though he was exposed as a hoax by 'reading minds' using an accomplice with a radio transmitter and a tiny receiver in his ear.

Check out how many people here claim telekinesis, astral projection, telepathy, dawsing for water, and aura seeing, yet none will go beyond cheap talk and submit to a simple test of their claim.

Check out how many mystic heads have predicted the end of the world throughout history and when it didn't happen, not only did they not admit they were wrong but issued another end of the world prediction on another date, and another, and another...

Witness how many are currently bracing for yet another end of the world in 2012, many of them Shroomerites.

--> Clicky <--


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (04/08/06 06:22 PM)

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: Diploid]
    #5493519 -

Myths can be mystical, but mysticism is not mythical.
Reference Joseph Campbell and Evelyn Underhill for mythical and mystical, respectively, for accurate definitions of the words.

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5493537 -

Fantasy is a suitable proxy for accessing that which is just out of reach.

The only problems with it are keeping context clear of why you are using the proxy, and tehn feeling you need to defend the tenuous link.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: Diploid]
    #5493543 -

Diploid said:
It's purpose is to demonstrate how mystic heads are dead-set in their ways and will not allow that mysticism may be a myth, even in principle.


Well, then, they weren't presented with irrefutable evidence agansit their beliefs, now where they? :lol: If it was irrefutable, they would have no choice. :smirk:

Within an illogical mind, a refutation does not need to conform to logic in order for it to be a successful refute, within the context of that mind. You didn't provide for them irrefutable evidence if they continue to believe in it. :tongue:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5493553 -

Quote:
Check out how many people still buy into Uri Geller's bullshit despite him having been embarrassingly exposed as a fraud on the Johnny Carson show years ago.

Check out how many people still call psychic hot-lines despite Ms. Cleo being disgraced and exposed as a fraud.

Check out how many millions of dollar Sylvia Brown hauls in year after year despite her refusal to submit to a simple test of her powers that she agreed to back in the 90s.

Check out how many True Believers still attend (and pay for admission) reverend Peter Popoff's prayer meetings by the hundreds of thousands even though he was exposed as a hoax by 'reading minds' using an accomplice with a radio transmitter and a tiny receiver in his ear.

Check out how many mystic heads have predicted the end of the world throughout history and when it didn't happen, not only did they not admit they were wrong but issued another end of the world prediction on another date, and another, and another...

Witness how many are currently bracing for yet another end of the world in 2012, many of them Shroomerites.



find me one person here who, when the world did not end according to their prediction, maintained that the world had ended. and wouldn't issuing another world ending prediction necessitate admitting the first one was in error? how could you predict the end of a world that no longer existed?

Edited by Deviate (04/08/06 06:13 PM)

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5493559 -

This link about a coincidence regarding my father's original Polaroid-Land camera, with original film

That's not how you put it forth.

You more-than-implied that the pentagram you drew on the floor could not be photographed despite your repeated attempts. It even struck me as similar to the notion that vampires' reflection in mirrors cannot be seen. You were very matter-of-fact about it.

I asked for a demonstration. A demonstration that would have instantly and forever changed my perspective.

You refused.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (04/08/06 06:54 PM)

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5493628 -

Well, then, they weren't presented with irrefutable evidence agansit their beliefs, now where they?

I never said they were. I asked them to reach out and imagine being presented with that evidence, then state their reaction. It's a hypothetical question. Are you aware that such questions are a basic tool of philosophical discussion?

If it was irrefutable, they would have no choice.

Then why hasn't any mystic head so far in this thread simply said that? Why all the twisting and contorting rather than a straight-up direct answer?

I think it's because mystic heads are not intellectually honest. They go with anything that affirms their belief system, and pooh pooh anything that doesn't. An intellectually honest person has no attachment to their beliefs and changes them on a dime when new information comes along.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (04/10/06 07:35 PM)

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: Diploid]
    #5493645 -

If evidence was shown to me that contradicted my beliefs, my beliefs would change.  However, in a purely experiential context, the experience ramains the same, only the interpretation is altered.  I dont really have beliefs, I simpy have experience.  I have thoughts, ideas, theories, plans, and interpretations, but they are far from being called beliefs.  To me, a belief is something that one takes as "the way it is" limiting all future experinces to be viewed from within the confines of that belief.  A born-again christian once told me that all dinosaur bones were placed here by God to test the faith of his followers.  Perfect example of beliefs limiting ones world view.  She even went on to say that carbon dating is flawed because it didnt fit into her belief system.

If I see red, I believe red.  If I see sky, I believe in the sky.  Thought I am not falling into that "if I cant see it, I dont believe it camp" because that also falls into the category of a belief system.  I simply wont dismiss anything unless it is proven with solid "concrete" evidence that it doesnt exist.  I also dont hold any firm convictions about the nature of reality and it constituents, like life, perception, states of being, unexplainable phenomena etc...

     

:heart:Peace:heart:

:hippie:

Edited by Quoiyaien (04/08/06 06:52 PM)

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: Diploid]
    #5493651 -

Diploid said:
I for one chose to live 'as if' the Experience had its roots in 'God' as certain metaphysical traditions have described It.

So, rather than seeking Truth, you settle for dogma which may or may not be Truth.



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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: Diploid]
    #5493658 -


Then why hasn't any mystic head so far in this thread simply said that? Why all the twisting and contorting rather than a straight-up direct answer?


they have. if i were presented with proof of something of course i would believe it. i only became a "mystic head" because i was presented with irrefutable evidence to the point where i would be irrational to disreguard it. and like Quoiyaien i'm not talking about proof of any specific interpretation, im talking about being presented with new experiential information.

Edited by Deviate (04/08/06 06:41 PM)

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: Diploid]
    #5493666 -

This is sloppy speculation diploid.

Quote:
Check out how many people still buy into Uri Geller's bullshit despite him having been embarrassingly exposed as a fraud on the Johnny Carson show years ago.


Did you consider that many who may believe in him, have never seen or heard of his expose on that show? Find one who you know for a fact that saw it and still believe.

You also have shown no evidence that people still entertained by him, are so , because they believe what he does is magical and not for entertainment value only. Siegfried and Roy and David Copperfield make a shit-load off of entertaining people with illusions. The people know they are illusions and enjoy the entertainment value anyway.


Quote:
Check out how many people still call psychic hot-lines despite Ms. Cleo being disgraced and exposed as a fraud.



You are misleading readers from the truth diploid. Ms Cleo was brought up on fraud charges for over and double charging peoples phone bills, not for being a bad psychic. She never even answered the phones of her hot line business. Again, her adds clearly state on the bottom, for entertainment only.

You have not shown any evidence that people who call her hot-line are not doing so for entertainment only either.


Quote:
Check out how many millions of dollar Sylvia Brown haul in year after year despite her refusal to submit to a simple test of her powers that she agreed to back in the 90s.


Apparently, her accepting to take  some challenge has no relevance to their interest in her. Perhaps they see her as entertainment as well.

Speculation

Quote:
Check out how many True Believers still attend (and pay for admission) reverend Peter Popoff's prayer meetings by the hundreds of thousands even though he was exposed as a hoax by 'reading minds' using an accomplice with a radio transmitter and a tiny receiver in his ear.


Prove they were there because they believed he could read minds in the first place. Some people like to pray in groups and support those who sponsor group prayer for them. Maybe if they did believe, they don't now, forgave him, and just care to keep with the group prayer.

You have no proof that anyone who first believed he was reading minds still holds that belief.

Speculation.

Quote:
Check out how many mystic heads have predicted the end of the world throughout history and when it didn't happen, not only did they not admit they were wrong but issued another end of the world prediction on another date, and another, and another...


My aunt thought it was going to end in 2000. She gladly admitted she was wrong. How do you know all the people who ever believed in a prophecy, to know if they admitted their belief was invalid or not. You have shown zero proof of that.

So people start new ones. So what if people choose to believe in them. Maybes its for entertainment purposes too.  They are not invalid until after they pass without event.

I have proof of someone doing that. You once predicted that I would not reply to one of replies in a thread. I did and I proved you wrong and you never admitted it. :tongue:

Quote:
Witness how many are currently bracing for yet another end of the world in 2012, many of them Shroomerites.


I've read through most of the 2012 threads since I have been here and never read anyone who thinks the world is going to end. All I have read is people saying, its the end of a calender, or the end of a certain way of life, not life itself.

Dooms dayers are just people who live in fear and clinical depression or love a good drama. Remember the hoax put on here by the staff for April fools. You even got in on that one.

Please do not confuse depressed fear filled dooms dayers with ALL mystic minded people.

I think I can guarantee you that no one who has replied in this thread thinks the world is going to end anytime within the next century nor do they worry about it.

Diploid, all your thread has succeeded in proving is that you yourself use your imagination to speculate on what you want to believe is true of people you know and don't even know.

You yourself believe in your speculative fantasies and maybe you keep posting this stuff as if its the truth, in a subconscious attempt to show your conscious mind how you are stagnating your own growth and development by believing in fantasies.

MS. Cleo was indited for billing fraud, not for being a fake psychic. Her ads ran runners that said the services her hot line business provided were for entertainment purposes only. You have no proof, that ALL current callers are not calling to entertain themselves.

Any belief otherwise is all in your imagination or an attempt to get members here to beleive stuff that isn't true.


:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: Deviate]
    #5493699 -

Stating that you would accept the evidence, then in the same breath attaching the caveat that such evidence cannot exist says only that you would not accept the evidence in principle.

And we're back where we started: mystics will not uncling themselves from their beliefs no matter what; not even for the purpose of a hypothetical discussion.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5493707 -

Again, her adds clearly state on the bottom, for entertainment only.

You have not shown any evidence that people who call her hot-line are not doing so for entertainment only either.

You sound like a lawyer squirming around with technicalities rather than a seeker of Truth.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: Diploid]
    #5493728 -

Yes, back to where it started, your asking people to use their imaginations to serve as evidence of something.:lol:

Is that what you do when you slip into the fantasy of believing Ms Cleo was indited on psychic claim fraud charges and not the truth of billing fraud regarding her entertainment only business?

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: Diploid]
    #5493734 -

There is a lot of hocus pocus misleading garbage out there.

There are also moments when divinity intercedes with our existence.
If you have never experienced this I can understand your lack of belief.

I have mixed feelings about posting this on the web, perhaps I shall take it down in a few days.

When I was in kindergarden I made a macaroni art piece of the crucifix on construction paper. After completion I wrote
To: God
From: Ryan
on the art-work. That night I placed the art against a wall in my bedroom and as I layed in bed I said a prayer. Asking god to accept my gift and to take it from me.

I awoke the next morning to discover that the art was no longer.

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Re: A Question For Mystic Heads [Re: Diploid]
    #5493756 -

Diploid said:
Again, her adds clearly state on the bottom, for entertainment only.

You have not shown any evidence that people who call her hot-line are not doing so for entertainment only either.

You sound like a lawyer squirming around with technicalities rather than a seeker of Truth.


No need to squirm and I am a truth seeker. The facts and truth of Ms Cleos indictment are clear in black and white. She comitted billing fraud plain and simple. The information on it is easy for all to find.  I searched for the truth of the matter and accepted it. You are still in denial of it believing what you want to beleive.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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