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Raven Gnosis
π°π’π―ππ’π«π±π¦π π¦π‘π


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Charlatanism
#14128327 - 03/15/11 11:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Personally, as a deeply spiritual individual, with his spirituality being based in truth at all costs and insistence on disillusionment, whenever and wherever I naturally may delude myself. I find charlatanism a plague to human intelligence and freedom.
I've always intuitively deplored from a young age charlatans such as Sylvia Browne, John Edwards, The Amazing James Randi, Miss Cleo and The Dreaded Sorcerer, George W. Bush.
Why do you think charlatanism is so pervasive? More so in the form of a deluded practitioner, other than a scandalous manipulative quack?
What in the human condition do you feel brings people to the feet of charlatans, becoming the victims of what Carl Sagan would call, 'Bamboozling"? Outside of blatant ignorance, what would you say brings an individual under the deluded spell of a charlatan, or to delude themselves? or causes a charlatan to delude themselves or to desire to delude others into their delusions?
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Wanting to believe, the placebo effect, and the surety that the charlatan has all the answers to the great questions of life perhaps.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: Personally, as a deeply spiritual individual, with his spirituality being based in truth at all costs and insistence on disillusionment, whenever and wherever I naturally may delude myself. I find charlatanism a plague to human intelligence and freedom.
"Spiritual healers" are the biggest charlatans of all. 
How is James Randi a charlatan?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Raven Gnosis
π°π’π―ππ’π«π±π¦π π¦π‘π


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Charlatanism [Re: Poid]
#14128450 - 03/16/11 12:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: Personally, as a deeply spiritual individual, with his spirituality being based in truth at all costs and insistence on disillusionment, whenever and wherever I naturally may delude myself. I find charlatanism a plague to human intelligence and freedom.
"Spiritual healers" are the biggest charlatans of all. 
How is James Randi a charlatan? 
Hmm, I've never known anyone who claimed to be a spiritual healer, nor do I even understand what that means... What, do you heal someones soul? I'm spiritual (likely not in the sense of the word people might take it here) and have helped people heal, psychologically and physically (using earthly methods mind you, no hocus pocus.) But, I don't think that makes me a spiritual healer. Until someone pulls some Jesus mojo on me, I ain't gunna believe it.
And James Randi? he's the biggest charlatan ever. (jokes.)
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Raven Gnosis said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: Personally, as a deeply spiritual individual, with his spirituality being based in truth at all costs and insistence on disillusionment, whenever and wherever I naturally may delude myself. I find charlatanism a plague to human intelligence and freedom.
"Spiritual healers" are the biggest charlatans of all. 
How is James Randi a charlatan? 
Hmm, I've never known anyone who claimed to be a spiritual healer, nor do I even understand what that means... What, do you heal someones soul? 
I'm not too sure what it means, either, because everybody has a personal definition for the term 'spiritual'; when you say you are spiritual, what exactly do you mean?
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: I'm spiritual (likely not in the sense of the word people might take it here)...
Then in what sense?
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: ...and have helped people heal, psychologically and physically (using earthly methods mind you, no hocus pocus.) But, I don't think that makes me a spiritual healer. Until someone pulls some Jesus mojo on me, I ain't gunna believe it.
What's spiritual about you doing that? Are psychologists/psychiatrists/physical therapists spiritual, IYO?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Raven Gnosis
π°π’π―ππ’π«π±π¦π π¦π‘π


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Charlatanism [Re: Poid]
#14128584 - 03/16/11 12:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: Wanting to believe, the placebo effect, and the surety that the charlatan has all the answers to the great questions of life perhaps.
Hmm, I read a psychiatric document on the placebo effect a couple years back on it's aiding in reversing terminal illness... Intensely intriguing.
The latter part of what you said sounds intellectually lazy on whomever's behalf would have such certainty...
Quote:
Poid said:
"Hmm, I've never known anyone who claimed to be a spiritual healer, nor do I even understand what that means... What, do you heal someones soul? :confused"
I'm not too sure what it means, either, because everybody has a personal definition for the term 'spiritual'; when you say you are spiritual, what exactly do you mean? Well, I think spirituality is something personal to each individual, it arising in it's uniqueness from their specific paradigmatic instance and often reflecting it. As it goes for myself.
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: I'm spiritual (likely not in the sense of the word people might take it here)...
Then in what sense?
Well, my spirituality is born in the face of the visceral bewilderment and wonder I feel in the face of this strange world I have found myself upon, this strange life I have found myself within and what I have learned about it, myself and where I come from... Horrifyingly mysterious at times... Even with all our knowledge, that howling maw of ignorance is immensely vast. I guess the easiest way to describe it is my spirituality is the experiential and intellectual fruits and wisdom obtained through delving into that unknown and through this life in general. 
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: ...and have helped people heal, psychologically and physically (using earthly methods mind you, no hocus pocus.) But, I don't think that makes me a spiritual healer. Until someone pulls some Jesus mojo on me, I ain't gunna believe it.
What's spiritual about you doing that? Are psychologists/psychiatrists/physical therapists spiritual, IYO?
Lol, I left out the part where I was gunna say I found nothing spiritual about me doing that, but I figured you would figure.
P.S. Forgive me for the quote box screw up, I'm still figuring it out.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Raven Gnosis said:
Quote:
Poid said:
"Hmm, I've never known anyone who claimed to be a spiritual healer, nor do I even understand what that means... What, do you heal someones soul? :confused"
I'm not too sure what it means, either, because everybody has a personal definition for the term 'spiritual'; when you say you are spiritual, what exactly do you mean?
Well, I think spirituality is something personal to each individual, it arising in it's uniqueness from their specific paradigmatic instance and often reflecting it. As it goes for myself.
Unfortunately, that tells me absolutely nothing about what spirituality is. 
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: I'm spiritual (likely not in the sense of the word people might take it here)...Quote:
Then in what sense?
Well, my spirituality is born in the face of the visceral bewilderment and wonder I feel in the face of this strange world I have found myself upon, this strange life I have found myself within and what I have learned about it, myself and where I come from... Horrifyingly mysterious at times... Even with all our knowledge, that howling maw of ignorance is immensely vast. I guess the easiest way to describe it is my spirituality is the experiential and intellectual fruits and wisdom obtained through delving into that unknown and through this life in general. 
Just another definition of 'spirituality'.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Raven Gnosis
π°π’π―ππ’π«π±π¦π π¦π‘π


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Charlatanism [Re: Poid]
#14128694 - 03/16/11 01:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said:
Quote:
Poid said:
"Hmm, I've never known anyone who claimed to be a spiritual healer, nor do I even understand what that means... What, do you heal someones soul? :confused"
I'm not too sure what it means, either, because everybody has a personal definition for the term 'spiritual'; when you say you are spiritual, what exactly do you mean?
Well, I think spirituality is something personal to each individual, it arising in it's uniqueness from their specific paradigmatic instance and often reflecting it. As it goes for myself.
Unfortunately, that tells me absolutely nothing about what spirituality is. 
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: I'm spiritual (likely not in the sense of the word people might take it here)...Quote:
Then in what sense?
Well, my spirituality is born in the face of the visceral bewilderment and wonder I feel in the face of this strange world I have found myself upon, this strange life I have found myself within and what I have learned about it, myself and where I come from... Horrifyingly mysterious at times... Even with all our knowledge, that howling maw of ignorance is immensely vast. I guess the easiest way to describe it is my spirituality is the experiential and intellectual fruits and wisdom obtained through delving into that unknown and through this life in general. 
Just another definition of 'spirituality'. 
If you want me to take a shot at giving spirituality a definition, I'd say it's a humans way of relating and aligning himself symbolically and in some instances literally with the natural world or with the greater mysteries or the mysteriousness in general of our lives on this strange garden world with that pale orb circling in the sky above.
But, then again, it's something that's often pretty subjective in it's nature, so, it's a given definitions will greatly vary from cultural paradigm to cultural paradigm, from individual paradigmatic instance to individual paradigmatic instance.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
Edited by Raven Gnosis (03/16/11 01:17 AM)
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