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A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Tae Kwon Do
    #5197289 -

I was reflecting on the martial art of Tae Kwon Do and then was thinking about all of the arguments that say, science and spirituality will never meet to work together.

In a way, they did meet and blend quite beautifully through martial arts like Tae Kwon Do.

It's goal is achieving non violence, balance and harmony within the self and balance and harmony between the self and the environment. It does this through basic principles of PHYSICS, ei -physical balancing, leveraging, energy forces and through an awareness of over 500 pressure points in the physical body.

There is a method to it that is scientifically based and it brings about the effects of spiritual goals many have for a way of life, also including, respect for self and others, yogic breathing training and mental discipline and focus training.

Considering those goals are achieved through methods based on science physics, I say the argument of spirituality and science not having met and never will meet to work together is a mute one.

I'm reflecting on watching black belts using there bodies with the effects of a lethal weapon and yet to meet the nature of the individual within the body is another experience. So far, they all seem sooooooooooo relaxed, easy going, supportive, understanding encouraging, non aggressive and gentle natured. They bust warming smiles over the simplest of things so easily. It takes few words if any for them to communicate profound lessons.

And its all based on science physics. I'm blown away seeing how weel they work together in this light. I wanted to share this view and entertain any comments on it.

:japsmile:

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Edited by gettinjiggywithit (01/19/06 12:36 AM)

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5197317 -

For a while I have thought that science and spirituality actually worked well together, but you put an entirely new spin on it. That is very interesting, I hadn't thought of that but I thoroughly agree


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-CUBErt
:cubie::levitate::cubie:

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5197400 -

The Martial Arts really cover a lot of territory.

I'm surprised you didn't add, "Physical Health" to your title line... then it could've been:

A hot menage a trois of science, spirituality and physical health.

:smile:


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: Rose]
    #5197471 -

Quote:
A hot menage a trois of science, spirituality and physical health.


:lol: Indeed it is! Maybe thats why martial artists are so sexy!:lol:

I never realized it all coming together like that before tonight, thinking maybe someday in the future when science gets further into quantum mechanics they may merge into a unified practice. And all along, there has a been a beautiful merging and practice of the two that has been around for hundreds of years.

Maybe they never even were two separate things. Maybe science and spirituality are the same thing just realized in different ways.

I'm glad you appreciated the spin I took to see recognize this Cubert. There are many people who see the potential for them working well together and some who want to keep them VERY separate and think they should be. After I saw how they are already merged through the martial arts, I thought back to old debates and opinions on it.

It's all about repetition that produces predictable results- "the science method" and how funny that the results are the "spiritual goals" of many. Perhaps others have considered this before, I hadn't and wanted to share the view.

:japsmile:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5197485 -

I partake in martial arts, but through a strictly scientific, athletic way. I am a student of muay thai, but I am strictly a student of the formalistic properties of the discipline. I have no spiritual connection to it, and most the people I train with don't. I also have a few years of karate under my belt and currently somewhat train in jiu jitsu and boxing. Muay thai is my main passion though.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with finding some spiritual solace in martial arts, it just isn't my thing.

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: spud]
    #5197502 -

From what I understand, martial arts was initially strictly about fighting. The spiritual elements were added later, after Japan was unified, and the samurai sought to justify their continued existence as a class in a time of peace by glorifying themselves with the whole bushido code and such.


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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: Silversoul]
    #5197539 -

That's true, and not just with Japan. The origins of martial arts most likely dates back to self defense from attacks by animals and other people. Over time, like most anything, people began to refine and explore their systems of defense. Groups of people exploited this knowledge to protect themselves and their endeavors, thus certain disciplines, or schools, were formed. In the process of developing the martial arts, ideologies and spirituality became infused with the martial arts.

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: spud]
    #5197567 -

I hear ya. I'm not familiar with some of the ones you mentioned. Tai Kwon Do has goals and produces results that do amount to some "spiritual goals"non martial artists have, weather people were seeking them or not is the thing.

I think of all the other methods spiritual types use and to think they can get there through a martial art, based on science physics is pretty interesting.

I think a lot depends on the gyms and teachers you choose as well.

You hear some people tell others to shy away from the americanized places that just put a physical emphasis on it. The place I chose is very Traditional.

To each his own. I'd be surprised if you have had that much training and didn't develop any respect for the arts or your fellow students and instructors or your skills and power or achieve a greater sense of inner balance and harmony. So many things have to come together at once to execute a move while keeping in self defense mode only and to avoid violence and harm as much as possible to self or others.

I noticed none of the ones you mentioned ended in "Do" which I think are the self defense ones. That's why I emphasized Tae Kwon Do in the post. Maybe I should change it in the header. I know some places are like that gym in the Karate Kid that were all about aggressive attack and intimidation.

Everyone is looking for something to better serve them in this life.

I suppose anything that can be used for good can be used for bad as well. Like a gun in your face can keep you from hurting or robbing another and a gun can help you hurt or rob another.

Thanks for sharing your view spud! I'm sure you represent a handful here! :smile:

:japsmile:

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5197591 -

Muay Thai is perhaps one of the most aggressive form of martial arts in existence. It's one of the most dominant forms of martial arts used in Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) competitions. It focuses on brute force, using very simple yet powerful blows to cripple the opponent. Fists, elbows, shins, feet, and knees are used to strike. There is also some stand up grappling, called the clinch, where you get them in a hold which allows you to control them or throw some knees to their body/face. The dojo I train at is very sport oriented. I'm not sure if you are familiar with Pride FC or UFC, but our dojo has trained such people as Tito Ortiz and Rampage, some of the most prolific MMA fighters alive. There is no spiritual aspect, as it's only emphasis is on efficiency.

The only goal we have is to win.

Sure, we do get a sense of inner harmony and balance, but I believe any sort of physical activity does this. Anything from running to swimming can cause "spiritual" like effects.

I do find the spiritual side to it all interesting, and am familiar with the spirituality of many forms of martial arts, I just don't find any relevance to them within my paradigm of religion, besides of course the importance of physical wellbeing.

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: spud]
    #5197641 -

Thanks for telling me more about Muey Thai. I came across some videos on Brute Force martial arts earlier. They looked intense. :evil:

So true, swimming and running can do the same thing and they involve reptition methods and physics. Runners even get a euphoric high like some do through meditation.

I've seen some of those sporting events on TV. My husband loves them, especially ultimate fighting. I have to leave the room. I have a hard time watching people physical harm each other that bad for sport. It's their bodies and their lives. I don't have to watch it and I don't.

The Master at my gym had some black belts put on a demonstration for my family and I after our class. They were just showing skills-no sparring. I enjoyed that a lot! Though they teach to subdue and attacker quickly by use of their pressure points, they work with a lot of flair too just for the athletics. These guys can fly and their speed is like lightening.

It was a religious experience for me today because I kept saying HOLY Fuck!:lol:

Do you have goals spud to compete in tournaments and fights?

I'm going to have a hard time bringing myself to contact sparring when the time comes. Not that I have to ever. I pretty much see it as a fun way to keep fit with some bonus's for mental discipline. I doubt I ever would've even signed up if it weren't for wanting my daughter to be signed up. I think its great for kids-adults too! I'm already seeing positive changes in her.

:japsmile:

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5197661 -

TKD is a beautiful martial art, and it is a very effective one. Being a student of muay thai, I myself am jealous of the aesthetics of TKD.

My eventual goal is to have my first amateur fight before the end of this year.

As for the not being able to watch competitive fighting, my girlfriend is the same way. She isn't even very fond of me going to the dojo, since it's very spar oriented, but she knows how much I love it so she doesn't give me a hard time about it. I've never let her come see me fight, simply because at times the fights can get pretty ugly and I don't want her seeing me getting the shit knocked out of me :lol:

Once I start competing, however, she made me promise that she could come support me at all the fights. We'll see how that goes as the time comes.  :grin:

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: Silversoul]
    #5197683 -

Paradigm said:
From what I understand, martial arts was initially strictly about fighting.  The spiritual elements were added later, after Japan was unified, and the samurai sought to justify their continued existence as a class in a time of peace by glorifying themselves with the whole bushido code and such.


From what I have read... that is not entirely true, but close... you simply forgot China. A couple Chineese arts have their origins within the Zen philosophy, rather than self defense and agression.

As I understand it a couple of the oldest arts... Hshing Yi (sounds like, "shing yE")... an ancient martial art WAS born as a part of Zen philosophy... Pa Kua (sounds like bah gwa) followed... after these new arts were developed, Tai Chi and other... older arts soon adapted their ways and incorporated the philosophy as well. Some, with better results than others.

If you are lucky enough to study one of the Zen arts... you won't soon forget the lessons you learn.

But, you may as well be combining Zen with Motorcycle maintenance... or the art of archery. :smirk:


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (01/19/06 01:25 AM)

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: spud]
    #5197688 -

I can relate to your girlfriend!:yesnod: Though I fully support my husband learning this too and going as much as he can.

I hope to catch a post of yours in one of the forums about how you do at your first competition. If you remember and post about it, send me a PM link.  :thumbup:

:japsmile:


:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: Rose]
    #5197697 -

In my years of studying various martial arts, all texts I've referenced have illustrated the origins of martial arts being purely practical and not spiritual.

Tai Chi, for example, dates back to the 12th century I believe. The origins of martial arts is far before that. Tai Chi is an example though of a specific school of martial arts whose origins are in fact spirituality. Sumo is another example, with it's origins being ritualistic.

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5197698 -

Will do!

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: spud]
    #5197712 -

spud said:
In my years of studying various martial arts, all texts if referenced have illustrated the origins of martial arts being purely practical and not spiritual.

Tai Chi, for example, dates back to the 12th century I believe. The origins of martial arts is far before that. Tai Chi is an example though of a specific school of martial arts whose origins is in fact spirituality. Sumo is another example, with it's origins being ritualistic.


Like I said, Tai Chi adapted into a Spiritual Martial art later on... but, Zen was certainly around when most of the "Formal" arts were formed... and a couple of the oldest existing arts, were most certainly Zen inspired. It would be natural for a Buddhist to combine the two during the era of historical formalization of the Martial Arts. Allowing the philosophy to be taught without words, throughout the occasional Confucian era.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: Rose]
    #5197722 -

As soon as man threw his first punch, martial arts was developed. Man is a creature that loves to impose structure upon anything and everything. Martial arts out dates written record, though most likely extremely primitive in nature. The arts we can name off are merely the product of thousands of years of aggression.  :grin:

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: spud]
    #5197727 -

Yup... that is why I qualified what I said with a John Kerry-esque "Historical Formalization of the Martial Arts" disclaimer. :wink:


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5197968 -

When I did inter-dojo tournaments, the tae kwon doe kids were always the easiest to beat :P


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: A beautiful marriage of science and spirituality-Martial Arts [Re: psyka]
    #5199038 -

And if I had asked which of the martial arts taught you how to win tournament competitions best, I could understand what your contribution was to this thread. Such a post would've belonged in the pub though. :confused:

Do you have anything to say relevant to the original post regarding science physics based repetition methods bringing out results akin to common spiritual discipline and awareness way of life goals? This was about the beautiful marriage of science and spirituality through Tae Kwon Do.

Sure, spud and I went a tad off topic in some places, though at least he contributed stuff relevant to the topic post.

You're funny, you come into this topic and say, I beat the TDK kids.:lol:

It's my post and I can take it off topic and reply to your reply as it is;

That's GREAT Psyka. :laugh: You beat the TDK kids in martial arts competitions. :thumbup:  You RULE in your universe of winning competitive MA sports!  :cool: You win and award for that! :tp:

I'm glad you found one that best serves your life goals!  :smile:

My personal off topic opinion of which martial art brings about the best results for demolishing people are the brute force ones. After that, I think it comes down to physical endurance, stamina, and pain tolerance and hard core intent to destroy.

This was about how science physics and the scientific method when married with spirituality can bring about positive results and WORK WELL together.

If you want to talk about how science physics and the scientific method when married with a desire to destroy human life is effective, you are now in the science forum talking about guns and nuclear weapons etc. Bruce Lee is the man and anyone with the help of science could nuke his house or take a sniper shot at him and he's toast.

If you want to talk about the best method for taking people out of the equation, martial arts is weak compared to other scientifically designed forms of weaponry. If its all about taking people down and out to you Pyska, why aren't you playing with guns and bombs instead?

That's the best way if thats your goal. You only have to be able to pull a trigger with your finger or throw a grenade. Not much skill required there to waste people. That's not what this post is about.

:japsmile:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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