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Anonymous

Merging science and spirituality..
    #814751 - 08/13/02 11:36 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

And on it goes.. society continues an exponential increase of advancements in medicine, technology, the sciences, and yes... even conscious awareness and different states of consciousness. Constantly evolving our species continues moving forward.. making changes to broken systems, attempting to keep everything nice and efficient along the way.

As we progress in our understanding of how things work, we begin to discover things like splitting the atom ...or cloning of humans.

Now maybe I am just foolish, but I feel like you wouldn't want to be experimenting with those sorts of things unless one had a full understanding of the implications and effects those things would have (for the environment which we live on, and us as a species).. This not only requires a knowledge of the science, and physical/technical aspects of the actual process, but also a spiritual understanding of the energy involved and how it will effect the environment (including) yourself.

I dream of a future where chakras are medical fact. Where one could moniter their soul or higher self using advanced biological machines. See what karmic patterns you currently hold, or take a look at the lessons you chose for life..you know..just to stay on track.

Disease? Extremely negatively charged cells. Counter the negative with positive. Restore balance.

And on they advance.. progress, change, revision. Each step along the way getting a little closer to the light of understanding. Soon now we will merge...manifesting along the way


Edited by Shroomism (08/13/02 11:38 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: ]
    #814766 - 08/13/02 11:42 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Oh yeah..the main thing I wanted to emphasize is that Technology needs to be made with nature, not against it. Hydrogen powered cars are a good start..


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Offlinemirrorsaw
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: ]
    #814825 - 08/13/02 12:09 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Science researches subjects with a $ reward at the end of it. There is nothing evil about that, but governments seem to have little interest in putting them under any kind of ethical restraint on what they do. I read recently (T/F?) that the safety regulations for experimental G.M. crops in the U.S.A. are classified!

Also, Mexican government scientists recently confirmed that 90% of maize fields surveyed had been cross-contaminated with G.M. genes.

I hope that one day soon, the biotech companies are going to be held to account and made to pay big time.

I have seen pro-GM scientists argue that cross pollination is natural and happens all the time!


Edited by mirrorsaw (08/13/02 12:10 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: mirrorsaw]
    #814833 - 08/13/02 12:12 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

It would be funny if all of a sudden $ became worthless.


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Offlinechemkid
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: ]
    #814990 - 08/13/02 01:32 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I agree that all science should be done in an ethical and ecologically sound manner but the understanding that you call for with cloning etc. comes from experimentation. You can't understand something without studying it.

As for the genetically modified foods.........believe me this is all propaganda. Things are being genetically modified on an everyday basis. This is called evolution. Making a cob o corn 15% larger is not going to hurt anyone. You know that in all the time that they have been genetically modifing not one person has become ill due to it. If someone tells you otherwise they are lying. Don't get me wrong.....I am not saying that scientists can't step over the line....they certainly can. Again, they should be ethical and synergistic with nature but at the same time you shouldn't believe all the bullshit that these leftist groups put out.


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: chemkid]
    #815007 - 08/13/02 01:41 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You know that in all the time that they have been genetically modifing not one person has become ill due to it.

How do you know?


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: ]
    #815014 - 08/13/02 01:45 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Technology represents our destruction and salvation.
What will destroy us will also save us.
Science has failed our Earth.
And for what? An easier way to live?
We have pushed ourselves out of our mother's grasp
We have none to blame, we are choosing this way

We came from the stars, we shall go to the stars
The beginning is the end


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Offlinemirrorsaw
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: chemkid]
    #815039 - 08/13/02 01:53 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

you shouldn't believe all the bullshit that these leftist groups put out

Those groups warn of possible dangers. It is too soon to know what harm will or will not be done. There are many more issues than just food safety.

Don't you believe people have a right to eat non-GM food if they want to?
How can they if the gene pool is contaminated?

The final descision about whether or not a food is safe comes down to the individual consumer, not a government body. They should be labeled so people can choose for themselves. You may well think that the products on the market are safe, but want to boycott them as you believe the biotech companies making them risk causing serious harm to the environment.

Things are being genetically modified on an everyday basis. This is called evolution

nature has a way of keeping things in balance. Are you sure we know enough to be doing are experiments not in a lab, but out in the fields?



Edited by mirrorsaw (08/13/02 01:55 PM)


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: mirrorsaw]
    #815061 - 08/13/02 02:02 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

nature has a way of keeping things in balance. Are you sure we know enough to be doing are experiments not in a lab, but out in the fields?

I am.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: ]
    #815272 - 08/13/02 03:50 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Now maybe I am just foolish, but I feel like you wouldn't want to be experimenting with those sorts of things unless one had a full understanding of the implications and effects those things would have...

Not foolish, but naive. It is impossible to have a full understanding of the implications and effects of ANY action. If we followed your advice, we would have stagnated long ago.

When people came up with various refrigerants, it was impossible at the time to portend the ozone depletion.

Now you are for hydrogen powered cars because they run clean and that's great. But can you forsee all the possible negative repercussions? No one can.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: Swami]
    #815308 - 08/13/02 04:06 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

This is a good point.

I, too, am against many of the things that science has done for us. However, I also agree with Adamist, that science will save us.

Swami is right when he says there is no way to forsee all the possible repurcussions of any action we take, and that we would have stagnated long ago if we hadn't taken these chances.

I do not like where science has taken us so far.
But I am a firm believer that science and experimentation are the only ways to take us further, into a better world.

Hydrogen powered cars are just the first step.

Imagine if no one was ever brave enough to eat a mushroom and see what it did to you. That is science right there. We simply have to take chances.



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Namaste.


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Anonymous

Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: Swami]
    #815434 - 08/13/02 04:50 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

If we gain a better understanding of the term what comes around goes around.. in a metaphysical sense.. then I think it would be much easier to forsee the possible reactions of an action. What I propose is approaching science from a natural standpoint... create technology that flows with nature, not against it. This power struggle of man vs. nature isn't helpful.. nature would win.

So yeah.. I'm waiting for unlimited free energy machines, handheld chakra/astral analyzer, and an inter-dimensional beamship.


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: Adamist]
    #815556 - 08/13/02 05:51 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

"science has failed our earth"???

maybe you're not sure of what the word science means?


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Offlinepostalboy
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: Traveller]
    #815633 - 08/13/02 06:24 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think science failed the earth. I believe that man has failed science...
Science is pure. the motivations of greed and power have perverted it to what it is today. Science is Galileo seeing the stars and recognizing shadows on the moon. Greed is making a bomb that will kill 200 million people as opposed to those crappy bombs that only kill 10 million...


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"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: postalboy]
    #815749 - 08/13/02 07:18 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I was referring to man's use of science.


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OfflineBrainNirvana
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: Adamist]
    #815768 - 08/13/02 07:26 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

One way to look at this is without technology right now would our current population be able to sustain itself? Think of all the technology in med., hospitals and things. Babies being born that wouldn't without technology. It's feels as though we relay on technology more then we do nature.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: chemkid]
    #815995 - 08/13/02 08:46 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Things are being genetically modified on an everyday basis. This is called evolution.

GM is usually more about putting the genes of arctic fish into tomatoes so they withstand the cold better etc. Arctic fish don't naturally tend to mate with tomato plants.

In England the government and Monsanto assured us that by leaving a 300 yard gap between GM fields and wild plants there would be no contamination. Recently weeds have been found contaminated with GM 3 miles away from the GM fields. GM food is basically an attempt by corporations to force us to eat their garbage and force third world farmers to buy their seed from them instead of getting it naturally from their own crops.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #816516 - 08/14/02 02:53 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

I, too, am against many of the things that science has done for us. However, I also agree with Adamist, that science will save us.





Or it will kill us, is not really science, but our miss use of it.
I believe that us a species, all this new discoveries are necessary, I don't believe in stopping science or going back to medieval times like some people would like, no we have to go forward, we have pass that face in history.
The only problem I see is that we have advance scientifically to fast with out evolving spiritually, and that could lead us into some big problems and perhaps extinction.
But is all part of evolution.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: ]
    #816934 - 08/14/02 08:29 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

It would be funny if all of a sudden $ became worthless.


Only when the last fish is caught,
Only when the last tree is cut down,
Only when the last fruits are plucked
Will we discover that money cannot be eaten.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: mirrorsaw]
    #816978 - 08/14/02 08:51 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Things are being genetically modified on an everyday basis. This is called evolution

nature has a way of keeping things in balance. Are you sure we know enough to be doing are experiments not in a lab, but out in the fields?

Nature seems to have a way of keeping things in balance, but only because our life expectancy only lets us see one tiny sliver of time in all of eternity. Just a few frames of the movie. Sure, the water cycle appears to be self-sustaining, ecosystems appear to be perpetual, but it took billions of years for the conditions on this planet to be stable enough to sustain life, and it can't possibly last forever. In another few billion years the sun will grow to a red giant and engulf the earth. Nature on earth won't be so balanced then heheehe.

Don't forget that humans and all our technology are products of nature too. I guess if you look at the entire scope, the whole universe and the entire timeline of its existence, then it does balance. Planets and stars are born and destroyed, things collide, as gravity and the properties of matter do their thing. I'm of the opinion that the properties of matter are the sole determinant of everything that has ever happened or ever will happen. It just so happened that things worked out that this planet developed the conditions to sustain us and that some of these organisms eventualy got around to putting up the Shroomery.

I don't object to being careful with regards to technology such as genetic engineering, but I do resent politicians' and celebrities' don't-go-there-EVER attitude with respect to human cloning or stem cell research, when they probably know very little about the technology. Sadly, the political dispositions are FAR more influential on the course of science than actual research and evidence. And yes, my personal curiosity outweighs my concern about the implications of such things. I'd really like to see what the mad scientists do. And they'll do it whether we like it or not. I'm very excited about the fact that I live in such an age. The internet itself is astounding.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Offlinemirrorsaw
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #817281 - 08/14/02 11:12 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

...when they probably know very little about the technology

I know very little about the best ways to poison soneone, am I allowed an opinion on the ethics of doing it?

Don't forget that humans and all our technology are products of nature too

Good point, but we could still fuck ourselves with our own 'natural' technology.

I think that with genetic modification of human DNA, in a way we would have put ourselves outside if time.

It could still be seen as a 'natural' evolution, but it would be one hell of a Paradigm-Shift.

Would we still be human?


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: BrainNirvana]
    #817582 - 08/15/02 11:31 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

It's feels as though we relay on technology more then we do nature.

It may feel that way, but until technology can recreate the Earth's environment without direct help from nature, we are fundamentally relying on nature more than we are on technology. I'm not sure how the bio-dome experiments have gone so if we are able to re-create a living environment without the help of nature, please correct me.


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #818948 - 08/15/02 11:44 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

i'm glad we cleared up that little thing. too often i hear friends say things like "science is flawed", when really science - or the sciences - are very useful tools, beautiful in their own right. science is not flawed, scientists are flawed. i get quite upset sometimes when people start talking about science as being somehow bad, so apologies if i've been mean to anyone along the way and to anyone i'm mean to over this in the future as i'm sure i will be.

cyberchump i'm with you here! there is a whole lot of crazy shit happening and about to happen if we can stick around long enough to see it. i was recently at a festival organised as a protest, trying to get a nuclear power plant shut down (in hamaoka japan, near mt fuji, very near Tokyo, and also on a major fault line where a very serious earthquake is predicted to occur in 2004). a lot of the people giving speeches were saying things like nuclear power was not meant for humans to use...we don't need nucler power...no nukes...etc. bollocks! some fear for atomic energy but none of them can stop the times. nuclear power could be the clean energy of the future. genetic engineering could produce super strong intelligent super peaceful super loving compassionate super "humans". ramble ramble.


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Invisibletak_old
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: Traveller]
    #820953 - 08/16/02 02:48 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

(R)evolution


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InvisibleJared
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: ]
    #823575 - 08/17/02 02:14 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Medical science is going to be the downfall of mankind. This "every life is precious" attitude that we have has caused total stagnation of the human gene pool.. not only are we not improving our genetics, we're weakening them with each succesive generation. We don't even let our bodies fight illness anymore, we ensure that everyone survives them and doesn't have to fight them. We make it our mission to find ways to keep our bodies from having to deal with illnesses. Cancer is good.. if everyone who got cancer just died, then eventually the only people left would be those whose cells were strong against bad mutation and so the genetics of mankind would become stronger. But no. We have to go and fuck everything up... I've totaly forgotten the topic of this thread.. crap.


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: Jared]
    #824317 - 08/17/02 07:35 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

western medical science is finally catching on to the chinese, indian and other "alternative" forms of medicine. this could very well be the deciding factor in changing global human civilisation since these forms of medicine deal with the entire human energy system - "mind, body, spirit" - and it's relationship with the environment. if you've ever been treated by a truly skillful acupuncturist (someone who's learned what i generally call "the real shit", as opposed to "all the other shit") you will understand what i'm talking about. if this knowledge and these various ancient systems are studied extensively using modern methods - as they are and surely will be even more in the future - we could go a long way towards peaceful consciousness-expanding societies through HEALING.


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InvisiblePynchon
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: Jared]
    #824893 - 08/18/02 06:09 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Jared,

Bullshit.

The gene pool is not weakened by medical science. If we can effectively treat an illness, then having a prediliction toward developing it becomes irrelevant.

Even where an illness can't be cured, it can still be worthwhile treating: a century ago, Stephen Hawking wouldn't have lived to see his balls drop. I don't know if he has kids or not, but it seems to me that his genetic "value" (ie his intelligence) is of greater benefit to mankind than his illness is a detriment.

Allowing people to die *unneccesarily* is worse than inhumane, it's stupid.



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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: Pynchon]
    #825737 - 08/18/02 03:16 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

The locus of selection shifted for humans once we gained the ability to think abstractly. Selection now works primarily on memes rather than only on genes (our genes are still selected upon, but much less).


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: Traveller]
    #826668 - 08/18/02 08:33 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Not too sure about chinese medicine. It's thanks to those bastards that there is still a demand for parts of rare and endangered animals to help in their "medicine"


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: Xlea321]
    #826753 - 08/18/02 09:27 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

quack homeopathy is not chinese medicine. chinese medicine is a lot more than grinding up rhinocerous horns to make your dick hard.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: Traveller]
    #826758 - 08/18/02 09:31 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Please post a link where I can order some rhinocerous horn.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: Traveller]
    #826913 - 08/18/02 11:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah... what I'm talking about is say for example you have most new age belief of the chakra system and how they effect one spiritually as well as physically.. and say you also thought that aside from the 7 chakras most literature focuses on, there are also many other smaller ones all over the body. Then you have the ancient chinese art of accupuncture... which is basically inserting pins in these little pockets of energy in the body, which they call qi channels, or cavities.. and twisting them to stimulate the nerves and muscles in such a way that it effects parts of the body. This is basically a physical stimulation of a 'chakra'..or pocket of energy... while also taking into consideration the mental and spiritual aspects of the healing process.

And herbs that have a 'signature' dna code which react to the human body in unique ways oftentimes with healing properties. These effect not only the physical body but also have an effect on the spirit. If we were able to understand the effects of something in both the spiritual and material world, I think it would lead to more efficient and advanced levels of science and technology.

Like taking into consideration the planet which sustains us. Why does the oil industry continue pumping their earth unfriendly product to the masses when there are much less harmful and more efficient ways of producing power? Money, of course... But let's not get into that...

I'm talking about a magical place where technology is created that flows in harmony with nature, rather than against it. Where great medical advances are made because of a deeper look at the spiritual and how it effects the physical. A place where all the people are citizens of the planet, rather than belonging to a controlling dichotomy. Where all citizens of the Earth are provided for, elitist a word of the past. Science has made such great advances that we are now able to travel the universe readily. Cancer, viruses, sickness? We control our health through psychic senses. It's scientific fact.

Of course this world will never exist and is just my little fantasy land.

What of it?

taiji


Edited by Shroomism (08/18/02 11:50 PM)


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: ]
    #827336 - 08/19/02 06:34 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Nice post shroomism.

I think the problem is people expect to be able to apply concepts like this while living in a society that offers no support for such things. If we had years to spend thinking and concentrating in a quite peaceful place I'm sure we could all improve our health. But trying to apply such ideas while living in a society where you are forced to spend the vast majority of your life chasing money, not getting enough sleep, not having enough time to eat well etc isn't going to work.

It's like the buddhist monk who spent 20 years in a cave meditating and was considered the most enlightened person in India. Then his disciples took him to a busy town and the first person that bumped into him made the master erupt in rage. Being enlightened alone in a peaceful cave is a lot different to being enlightened in a city. You need lots of support in society for these ideas to come to fruition.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineMurex
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Registered: 07/28/02
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Re: Merging science and spirituality.. [Re: Xlea321]
    #829165 - 08/19/02 10:09 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Just to let you all know that we are natural creatures of earth. What we do is in some way still part of nature. I think it started with a break in the equilibrium of the species.

Think of it being like a list of randomized single-digit numbers going on for pages and pages- wouldn't there be a few of the same numbers in a row eventually? Nature isn't always equalized- but eventually things cycle and start things over again before things get too unbalanced.








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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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