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Israel
    #477306 -

26 Israelis were killed by Hamas suicide bombers today. The Israeli people are very angry and it seems Sharon is under pressure to take very strong military action against the Palestinians. George Bush has asked Yasser Arraft to use all resources to track down the killers. Maybe if the Israeli army stopped its constant tank and missile attacks aginst the Palestinian Police Force, they might be able to do so. Also, if they had been treating the Palestinians with some humanity in recent times, this would not have occured. A few days ago the Israeli army shot 5 children, and have they been deliberately targetting children for years. In the last week they also assasinated a prominent Hamas member, clearly the spark for the recnt suiced bombings. Yet they reacted with outrage when their Ultra-right wing Tourism minister was assasinated, that too being caused by the Israeli army shooting people in Palestinan teritory.


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Re: Israel [Re: mm.]
    #477319 -

And your point is? You're talking about Israel acting Israeli. The non-state of Palestine responds accordingly. Twas ever thus. Israel remains a fascist regime. Yes, fascist as in rule by military belligerence. How can anyone be shocked? Neither faction desires peace, they'd just assume fight from now until the end of time.
Absent are the peaceniks in Israel. Have you yet seen a student group calling for an end to violence?
See? And see now how our opininions weigh?

Edited by puscle (12/02/01 06:19 PM)

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Re: Israel [Re: mm.]
    #477432 -

I'm afraid that NO party in this endless conflict is without innocent blood on his hands. It will never end.. It will never end. It will never end....
Both sides are murderers. Arafat us a either a liar or he cannot "control" his followers. If he is a liar, he should not be negotiated with. If he is not in control of his Palestinians, he should not be negotiated with.

The state of Israel is not legitimate in the eyes of the Palestinians. It never will be. They have been building "settlements", thereby solidifiying their hold on territory they say they are will to negotiate over. They cannot have it both ways.



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[red] Life:[/red][blue] Live it foward, understand it backward...[/blue]

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Re: Israel [Re: mm.]
    #478370 -

FACT: The 5 kids that died were not targeted delibrately. They accidentally kicked an unexploded tank shell. But let us not let the FACTS get in the way of a good line of bullshit.. Keep up the good work... You have yet to get any thing right in any post you have made. You post up polls with COMPLETLY LOADED questions. You take an event and turn it into something it is not. When were children targeted by Israel? They respond sometimes too aggressively but they go after the people they think are killers. Non- combatants do die in attacks, it's terrable but that is why war is terrible. IT is Hamas, Hezbollah and the Islamic Jihad that DELIBRATELY target non-combatants. Either Arafat is unwilling, or unable to reign in these groups.


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[red] Life:[/red][blue] Live it foward, understand it backward...[/blue]

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Re: Israel [Re: puscle]
    #478375 -

How can a "Fascist" state have truely democratic elections?

I can see you've been to your dictionary but the entire definition does not apply. Just the part you thought handy at the moment...



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[red] Life:[/red][blue] Live it foward, understand it backward...[/blue]

Edited by Mklangelo (12/03/01 04:13 PM)

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Re: Israel [Re: Mklangelo]
    #478459 -

sorry, i did make a mistake. The five child deaths last week were as a result of an Israeli booby-trap device planted on their route to school, they were not shot, nor did they 'accidently kick an unexploded tank shell.'
full story in UK Guardian newspaper here

Israeli soldiers do deliberately shoot children.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1296000/1296348.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/events/newsnight/newsid_1028000/1028210.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1428000/1428883.stm






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Re: Israel [Re: mm.]
    #478475 -

Ahh yes, the Left Wing Rag known as the Gaurdian. If These Israeli soldiers planted this so called "booby trap" Which has yet to be proven, I doubt very seriously they did it under orders to kill some kids. I listen to and watch a wide variety of news sources. From Fox, which I will admit has a Right Wing tilt to it. I also listen to the BBC and have done so on a nightly basis for the last 3 or so years. I listen to the BBC World Service. I also listen DAILY to that "supposed" bastion of Left Wing support, in America, National Public Radio. I wonder why this has never been reported by ANY of these news organizations?
And in one of the other sources from BBC, a mother of a 13 year old killed by Israeli Soldiers, when asked by the reporter if she thought her "child" should be fighting, she herself said, "He is not a child, he is a young man." The boy thought of himself as a legitimate combatant, and so did his mother...

If it turns out that the booby trap was a delibrate attempt to kill those 5 kids, those soldiers should be brought to justice. But I think the jury is still out on that.


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[red] Life:[/red][blue] Live it foward, understand it backward...[/blue]

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Re: Israel [Re: Mklangelo]
    #478538 -

NIce stories. I like how the Palestinians are training kids to slit the throats of Israelis and telling them to throw stones at Israeli soldiers, and then say "We don't want any of our people to get killed."

They have a right to live in peace. They choose not to. The boy's mother summed it up perfectly, probably unaware of the solution staring her in the face.

MOTHER:

"(TRANSLATION) They want to fight and liberate Palestine. If we all stopped our sons, there would not be a fight."

Throwing rocks at a tank that doesn't fire unless fired upon isn't doing shit for the liberation of Palestine.

And now Pelestine is being bombed by Israel.


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Israel [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #478744 -

i see a lot of racism here.
lets not forget that both sides are in the wrong, the only possible solution is a very long way out.

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Re: Israel [Re: Lenore]
    #478795 -

A very long way out, Lenore.
Word on the wire is that Sharon ordered his assault helicopters to attack Arafat's Headquarters. That's the equivelent of attacking the White House. Israel was waiting for Palestine to fuck up substantially enough so that they could slip under the shield of infallability that the United States holds up to defend its 'War on Terrorism'. For that is exactly what has occured now: Israel has declared a 'war on terrorism' /against/ Palestine.

Let's look at what might possibly precipitate Israel doing this...because it's rather frightening... not what Israel is doing (that should have been easy to predict)... but the prescedent that the United States has set in their handling of Afgahnistan.

The United States was attacked by a group of individuals it associated roughly with a terrorist group residing in Afghanistan. When the government of Afghanistan wouldn't turn over the suspected terrorists, the government itself /was branded as terrorists/ and over the past two months...we've unilaterally destroyed the government.

Now Israel has taken up a 'War on Terrorism' with Palestine...claiming by inference that the Palestinian Government is /terrorist/ as well - just as the Taliban was. And what do you think their intentions and goals might possibly be? They want Palestine dissolved, just as we dissolved the Taliban - and they want a substantial say in the 'restructuring' of the theoretical 'New Government' that will be setup after the destruction.

What is the prescedent here? Because of the United State's overt behavior to Afghanistan, /war between countries can now be waged legally (unless you dispute the legality of the United State's war in Afghanistan) because of /claims/ that terrorists operate from within the target country/. How can the UN keep Israel from attempting to obliterate Palestine without effectively saying that the United States is itself in the wrong? It can't, and it won't. And now we behold the new face of terror.

Ish

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Re: Israel [Re: Lenore]
    #478823 -

You see no such damn thing in any of my posts pal...


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[red] Life:[/red][blue] Live it foward, understand it backward...[/blue]

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Re: Israel [Re: Ishmael]
    #478827 -

It'll be a cold day in Hades when that tin shack that was attacked will come close to the Prestige of the American White House...


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[red] Life:[/red][blue] Live it foward, understand it backward...[/blue]

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Re: Israel [Re: Lenore]
    #479171 -

I'd like to get one thing crystal clear here Mr. Lenore. Show me racist statements in any of my posts. The only thing I'm doing here is criticising behaviours, OF BOTH SIDES. I have pointed out the hypocrasy of Israel for building settlements on territory they are at the same time negotiating over for possible establishment as a Palestinian homeland. Does that make me a racist?? I criticize Arafat for being definitely UNABLE and quite possibly UNWILLING to reel in Hezbollah, Hamas and the like from targeting civilians.
I will say that Arafat had the best offer he will ever get 14 months ago. He did not want to share Jerusalem. BOTH sides have legetimate historical claims to that city. He also wanted the "Right of Return" for all Palestinians to what is now Israel. Well now, can you blame Israel for refusing this? If 4.6 million Palestinians come to Israel, that is the end of the State of Israel. It would cease to exist.
Comprimises have to be made. Tough comprimises. NO PARTY here can claim moral high-ground. We are WAY past that. Now they have to stop and start fresh...
Israel ain't goin' nowhere. Face that. The sooner one faces that, the closer one is to the reality of the situation. The Palestinians are never going to cease their struggle. This is another fact here. Yes in 1967 Israel was attacked by several nations at once who vowed it's destruction. They underestimated the will of that tiny nation. Israel had a U.N. sanctioned territory that was embodied in the the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 in November of 47. Although Palestinians rejected this Resolution, it was an attempt by the World Community at the time to give both sides a place to call home.
After WWII the Jews were feeling just a bit "out of sorts" I hope you can understand that. They were"Ready to Rumble" in the parlance of the day... Israel has a right to a homeland, and so do the Palestinians.

That Race-Card is handy. It is the first knee-jerk reaction of a certain type in the world who have blinders on and are afraid to make definitive statements in any conflict. Next to "Child Molester", it is the most feared label a man can be tatooed with. In the current Political Climate, it usually sticks whether justified or not... It is the "nuclear blast" in a battle of ideas. Most people are afraid of openly and honestly critisizing the actions of a group because of this fear. Someday this will not be true and then the people who willy nilly throw this label around will have to think carefully before leveling this charge. I made this statement before and I'll make it again. BOTH sides here have innocent blood on their hands. And yes it is a long way out of the problems faced. But keep that race card in your hand. It doesn't apply here.


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[red] Life:[/red][blue] Live it foward, understand it backward...[/blue]

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Re: Israel [Re: Mklangelo]
    #479219 -

You'll have to forgive Lenore he thinks if you oppose any group then you are a racist and a hatemonger. He's a perpetual socialist with no commonsense....his sock puppets are just as funny.

With that aside i hope that Isreal kills Arafat just for the crime of using the same oxygen as myself...BAM!!...no life force!!


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Israel [Re: Innvertigo]
    #479315 -

You can't even eat a Kosher hot dog in Israel without fear of a human bomb going off next to you.

What about the precedents set by practitioners of the Muslim faith? They claim to be a peaceful people but actions speak louder than words.

Just read that article on that boy that was killed. His parents and culture are getting off on the fact that he died. They have a sick and unhealthy attatchment to this whole "martyr" idea.


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Israel [Re: Mklangelo]
    #479436 -

I must have slipped into an alternate reality again...in this one...prestige must mean something akin to 'body count'.

The United States is one of the few countries in the world to have been condemned by the World Court with "the unlawful use of force," meaning international terrorism. The UN voted to try to force all States to abide by International Law, but the United State vetoed the Security Council Resolution - there is little wonder why.

We have this nice little institution on Patriotic American Soil called: The School for the Americas...where we /train/ central and south american 'leaders' on just how to carry out American policy initiatives in their home countries. These policy initatives include, but are not limited to: 'Soft Target' attacks (Soft Targets are defenseless civilians; priests, women and children as well as places where they might found) and Military Coup (where the Military is organized to overthrow an existing legitimate government and put in place a new system which is sympathetic to American business). These tactics are used to inspire terror, nothing else.

In Columbia where such policy has killed tens of thousands, Nicaragua where such 'soft target' attacks have left tens of thousands more corpses inside farming collectives. In the phillipines where half a million 'primitives' were killed - "slaughtering the natives in English fashion [until] the misguided creatures" who resist us will at least come to "respect our arms" and later will come to understand that we wish them nothing but "liberty [and] happiness."

The white house as a symbol for prestige. I must have misplaced my dictionary.

Ish

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Re: Israel [Re: Ishmael]
    #479463 -

Well IF that is true, then we suck.

But how did such information find its way into your head?



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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Israel [Re: Ishmael]
    #479517 -

Just what the HELL does the "School of the America's" which by the way should be shut down, have to fucking do with Israel and the attack on Arafat's HQ? And what in the fuck does my saying that Arafat's "tin shack" will not likely have 1/10 the Prestige of the American White House? EVER!! Just keep jumpin around til you land somewhere you can stay for a minute, ok? You have the attention span of a fucking KNAT. Jesus Christ you people get under my skin...


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[red] Life:[/red][blue] Live it foward, understand it backward...[/blue]

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Re: Israel [Re: Mklangelo]
    #479550 -

****You have the attention span of a fucking KNAT. Jesus Christ you people get under my skin... ****

now you're starting to see how i feel. :smile:  i've had numerous debates with people on this board and their arguments are all over the map...welcome to my world my friend.....it's a bumpy ride


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Israel [Re: Innvertigo]
    #479572 -

I agree with Ishmael that the "School Of The America's" has trained many South American murders and they took what they learned here and took it home and killed thier own citizens. And thanks for that warm welcome into the world. But the Doctor beat you to it!! I knew right away it was gonna be a bumpy ride cause the first thing he did was slap my ass... LOL


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[red] Life:[/red][blue] Live it foward, understand it backward...[/blue]

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