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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Does enlightenment exist?
    #4490903 - 08/03/05 07:01 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Or is it merely an illusion created solely by our minds to provide some sort of meaning and purpose in our otherwise insignificant and meaningless lives?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: dblaney]
    #4490960 - 08/03/05 07:14 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yes and no. It depends a lot on how one defines enlightenment don't cha think? :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: dblaney]
    #4491021 - 08/03/05 07:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney18 said:
Or is it merely an illusion created solely by our minds to provide some sort of meaning and purpose in our otherwise insignificant and meaningless lives?




I think enlightenment can be defined as a combination of knowledge and smartness. It's just that many connect it to enugmatic speach in codes, and paranormal things.


if there is a tree on the field, and you know about it, it is one step toward enlightenment. If you know that the tree is made out of cells, that is another step. Knowing how the tree came into place, how it evolved, how it might evolve, knowing its chemistry, and how it reacts to environment including you is an even higher level of enlightenment


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (08/03/05 07:27 PM)


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: dblaney]
    #4491221 - 08/03/05 08:10 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney18 said:
Or is it merely an illusion created solely by our minds to provide some sort of meaning and purpose in our otherwise insignificant and meaningless lives?




Illusions exist in some form or another. Enlightenment exists within the mind; it is an idea that dominates so thoroughly the mind bows to it and all conflict ceases. Enlightenment is simply the end of the inner Darwinistic fight for the mind we all experience.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: dblaney]
    #4491397 - 08/03/05 09:03 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

waking up out of a dream
is natural


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4491437 - 08/03/05 09:13 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

waking up out of a dream
is natural


Really?


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: dblaney]
    #4491637 - 08/03/05 09:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

One could argue that everything created by our minds is an illusion.


--------------------
PsyPost - Psychedelic Research


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4493715 - 08/04/05 04:02 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4493916 - 08/04/05 06:49 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

going from one dream to the next is natural
you can awaken to that naturally too


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: dblaney]
    #4494727 - 08/04/05 01:38 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney18 said: Does enlightenment exist?



Yes.


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4494804 - 08/04/05 01:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

So you're saying that life is like a dream and enlightenment is like waking up from it? So that implies that there is such a thing as enlightenment.

It seems to me that unless one has first hand experience of enlightenment, it is to be regarded in the same way as the existence of an afterlife...a possibility, but with little solid evidence to support it.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4494816 - 08/04/05 01:56 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Nice reply to the question Oldwood. That would've been mine. I see it as states of having "light" knowledge/information shed onto things previously in the dark about. I see becoming enlightened as an ever on ongoing process.

The next time someone tells you that they are enlightened, ask them about what exactly. I love this one, "I know that I need know nothing to be at one with the universe and in bliss". If that's the simplicity that the quest for knowledge leads one two in a life time, maybe many of seeking then I will add it to  the cosmic joke.

All I need to know is that I need not know anything.  :rofl2:

There is a lot of freedom and liberation in that statement and leaves a lot of room open in life for just being in joy in the moment.

How to define it is the question? Is it the process of knowing more. Is it a state of pure knowing of all or is it knowing that we need know nothing to be in harmony with everything.

I like to chase knowledge and then relax and not need it and then chase after it and then relax and not need it. Works for me. I found that being in harmony with the universe is being in states of contraction and expansion. If I stay in either the chase or the not needing phase for too long, I start to feel like I am putting up resistance to the natural rhythm of existence.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: dblaney]
    #4494991 - 08/04/05 02:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

it does not exist the way quarks do not exist except for the instant that it prevails.

for this rolly polly doll (me) to get upright, it needs to recover repeatedly from 2 instinctual impulses, hatred (avoidance and aversion), & greed (attraction and acquisition), and also from delusion (confusion about this life).

from observation one can determine that the mind works as an association machine... our whole personality works like that.

introduce hatred or greed and the rolly polly doll tips over - unballancing, so we need a more enlightened attitude to recover from the animal instincts of avoidance and attraction, more humane associations or unlearn the old ones anyway, or recover and let go quickly anyway.

then concerned about things in life including this conversation, we find we are again snagged, or deluded, because we forget that all of our mental contents is composed of sensations and associations.

the rolly polly doll tilts again when we are confused.

we become enlightened (less tilted) realizing that everything is happenning in the mental association matrix. less confused about what we are saying and what we mean by it, but we know that we are just expressing our associations and not meaning anything more than that.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4495055 - 08/04/05 02:37 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Interesting...so basically it boils down to what each individual defines as 'enlightenment' it sounds like.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineSerioOria
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: dblaney]
    #4495084 - 08/04/05 02:44 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

perhaps, but then again it could be something tha is not accessible in this life or world or consciousness, something we may come close to but never truly experience until death or the stage after death (if there are such things)

thinking logically though it is just something we've made up to make ourselves feel as if we have a purpose. But there have been those rare few whom i believe were truly enlightened, perhaps jesus and some christian philosophers, some pagan philosophers, most likely buddah. Guess thats something were gona have to wait to find out (or not find out)

Quote:


Interesting...so basically it boils down to what each individual defines as 'enlightenment' it sounds like.




and that also, what do you define as enlightenment, is it pure knowledge about how the universe works or pure control over everything that be, or perhaps non existence?


--------------------
Live every day like it is your first
or
Live every day like it is your last
My ArT!!


Edited by SerioOria (08/04/05 02:46 PM)


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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: SerioOria]
    #4495228 - 08/04/05 03:09 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps enlightenment = nirvana?

And besides, I don't think the Buddha was as enlightened as he made himself out to be...and if he was...he was full of himself.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: dblaney]
    #4495231 - 08/04/05 03:11 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

he was full of emptiness maybe

in a way, I guess you're right then :cool:


--------------------



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: deff]
    #4495969 - 08/04/05 06:38 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

he was an excellent teacher
practicing mindfullness and teaching mindfulness at the same time & to many different kinds of people.


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: dblaney]
    #4496171 - 08/04/05 08:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You seem to see enlightenment as something other than what you have. You are made out of light and light makes your world. I like how others put is more as a process than a thing to achieve, you can find that out for yourself.

You seem to be on the quest for secret knowledge. Not many find it, but some find that they do not want to know it when they do. It is most earth shattering and also most simple as well. Most can have an experiental moment through the use of psychedelic drugs.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does enlightenment exist? [Re: mecreateme]
    #4496178 - 08/04/05 08:04 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Interesting post dude. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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