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OfflineSneezingPenis
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intro to nihilism
    #4011677 - 04/04/05 05:53 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

imagine for a second, a single consciousness, which is the only one in all of existence, for eternity. What would be its purpose? what would be the point of anything it did, or communicated? would there be any right or wrong? better or worse? moral or immoral?
.... Now imagine that that consciousness represents all of existence (which would mean all of existence in all of existence .... like 1/1). So all of this existence, in all of this time, is really just one big car ride, with no destination or end phenomenon.... so I ask you again... What would be its purpose? what would be the point of anything it did, or communicated? would there be any right or wrong? better or worse? moral or immoral?


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OfflineGomp
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4011857 - 04/04/05 09:07 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

purpose is a 'human' trait... :smile:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: Gomp]
    #4011858 - 04/04/05 09:10 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

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Ni?hil?ism

1. Philosophy.
1. An extreme form of skepticism that denies all existence.
2. A doctrine holding that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated.
--------------------
he he


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: Gomp]
    #4011867 - 04/04/05 09:17 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I heart huckabees seemed to touch nicely on it.
also raising of the sparks goes there
hide and seek
find oneself


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: Gomp]
    #4012135 - 04/04/05 11:45 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
purpose is a 'human' trait... :smile:




:thumbup: :thumbup:  Indeed!


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4012151 - 04/04/05 11:54 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I heart huckabees seemed to touch nicely on it.
also raising of the sparks goes there
hide and seek
find oneself




fuckabees


--------------------
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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4012280 - 04/04/05 12:46 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

rhyming helps memory to function
so does a blackboard.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4012303 - 04/04/05 12:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The idea that a single conciousness represents all of existance is not a facet of nihilism.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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OfflineTinTree
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: Phluck]
    #4012452 - 04/04/05 01:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quite. One does NOT equal zero.


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"I'm afraid of losing my obscurity. Genuineness only thrives in the dark. Like celery."
- Aldous Huxley


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: TinTree]
    #4012493 - 04/04/05 02:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

the thin-ness of the sharp crease, that you may fold one into, can approach the infinitessimality as an approximation of zero; it is an effort to construe, but easy to understand the benfit of such mastery.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4012627 - 04/04/05 02:34 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism#Nihilism_in_ethics_and_morality

"Nihilism in philosophy
Though the term nihilism was first popularized by Ivan Turgenev (see below), it was first introduced into philosophical discourse by Friedrich Heinrich Jacobi (1743-1819), who used the term to characterize rationalism, and in particular Immanuel Kant's "critical" philosophy in order to carry out a reductio ad absurdum according to which all rationalism (philosophy as criticism) reduces to nihilism, and thus it should be avoided and replaced with a return to some type of faith and revelation.

Friedrich Nietzsche's later work was obsessed with nihilism. Book One of The Will to Power, which consists of an arrangement of selections from Nietzsche's notebooks from 1883 to 1888, is entitled "European Nihilism," which he calls "the problem of the nineteenth century." Nietzsche characterized nihilism as emptying the world and especially human existence of meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value.

Though derided by some as nihilistic, postmodernism can be contrasted with the above formulation of nihilism in that nihilism tends toward defeatism, while postmodern philosophers tend to find strength and reason for celebration in the varied and unique human relationships it explores. Nihilism can also readily be compared to skepticism as both reject claims to knowledge and truth, though skepticism does not necessarily come to any conclusions about the reality of moral concepts nor does it deal so intimately with questions about the meaning of an existence without knowable truth."


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineTinTree
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4012769 - 04/04/05 03:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Aye, an approximation of zero, that is useful for some purposes, no doubt. But still, strictly speaking, not quite zero. :smile:
This is why I got angry as an adolescent and chucked a brick through mathematics' window... I refused to accept that .9999 repeating is = to 1.


--------------------
"I'm afraid of losing my obscurity. Genuineness only thrives in the dark. Like celery."
- Aldous Huxley


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: TinTree]
    #4012859 - 04/04/05 03:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

http://slate.msn.com/id/2114128/

99% of the time.

(or .9999 :tongue:)


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (04/04/05 03:47 PM)


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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4013034 - 04/04/05 04:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

So it's everything, 1/1, but it's infinite so it can always expand! It will still be 1/1 because as more is discovered it becomes part of the whole, part of the 1.


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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4013123 - 04/04/05 05:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The only thing infinite is human ignorance and the lack of understanding; beyond that their may be a large scale of anything, which places it in the seemingly infinite multitude of things. But it isn't infinite. Concepts and mathematics can be infinite... only because we define limitations on them which allow them to be such. (sequences and series as an example)

Go to a beach, count all the grains of sand, it may seem infinite... but alas the number is growing by the day, but in an instant of time, their is a finite number associated with the amount.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4013317 - 04/04/05 06:19 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

you can try to divide by zero


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4013368 - 04/04/05 06:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

seems we are getting hung up on the mathematics here....

First... i gave the analogy of one single lone consciousness in all of existence to relate a viewpoint of the scope of everything. Maybe a better analogy would be a Football league, which had only one team.. who would they play, what would be the point of even going on the field, who would come to watch that?
I dont think there is any defeatism in nihilism at all. In fact it is quite the contrary. If there is no absolute purpose or goal for existence as a whole, then why not just experience and live everything to its fullest and appreciate that there is no universal expectations of us to liev up to, only to just be. From this you can either choose to play into the fake constructed ideology of existence, or realize it is just a never ending game with no villain, protagonist, or end and go about your own existence just playing the game.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4013845 - 04/04/05 08:28 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

interesting that you pose mathematics as the blockage to effective discussion of nihilism, and then declare that there is no defeatism, yet "what would be the point of even going on the field".

the kabbalists seemed to have a mathematic or numerological way of resetting every glum moment into a re-connection with the infinite.

I am not certain that there is any difference between the infinite and absolute nothing, but the attitude is all important; and it seems that mathematics provides a mechanism to refocus that lens.


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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4013864 - 04/04/05 08:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Nihilism is believing in nothing. Your post has no relation to it.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4014110 - 04/04/05 09:21 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Nihilism is believing in nothing. Your post has no relation to it.




thanks for that completely uninformed viewpoint.... do you get all of your religious knowledge from The big lebowski?


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