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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: mathematical visualization of nihilism. [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2400642 -

I don't think that's true.
Think about how you could encode infinitely many true statements using a finite amount of matter. There are certain numbers which we'd simply have no way to represent other than "one of the numbers which we are conceptually unable to refer to any other way"

That sounds strange.


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"Better Dead than Red."

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Re: mathematical visualization of nihilism. [Re: Mal_Fenderson]
    #2400661 -

Quote:
Think about how you could encode infinitely many true statements using a finite amount of matter. There are certain numbers which we'd simply have no way to represent other than "one of the numbers which we are conceptually unable to refer to any other way"




You can encode all numbers with nine numbers (0-9). Yet you can still refer conceptually to them.


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
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-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
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Post deleted by Anno [Re: oneducktwoducks]
    #2400736 -


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Re: mathematical visualization of nihilism. [Re: ]
    #2400750 -

Quote:
I really don't see how that could be true.




Do an experiment. Count the particles in the universe and exhaust every possible chess scenario. Compare numbers.


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----

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Re: mathematical visualization of nihilism. [Re: trendal]
    #2400772 -

the universe doesn't have to have infinite size to hold infinite information. it just has to be infinitely divisible - it has to have infinite resolution. and we don't know if this is the case, I would guess that the universe is in fact, infinite (in size, resolution or both). we do know one thing - we can't test the true resolution of the universe with our instruments of limited resolution - it would be like trying to measure the thickness of a human hair with a ruler thats only accurate to 1/16th of an inch.

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Re: mathematical visualization of nihilism. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2400810 -

I agree with infedelgod, our planet alone holds an infinite amount of information.

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Re: mathematical visualization of nihilism. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2401508 -

Excellent point, infidelgod!

However I think that the universe is not infinitely divisible. I think that at some point of dividing you will reach a truely "fundamental" particle of which everything is then constructed from. In string theory, for example, it is the "string" which is the smallest possible constituent.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: mathematical visualization of nihilism. [Re: Evolving]
    #2401631 -

Wouldn't anything capable of absorbing ALL of this information have to be more complex than the universe (and all it's parts) that it was classifying?

does a database really need to be more complex than the information it contains?

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Re: mathematical visualization of nihilism. [Re: trendal]
    #2401686 -

I think that at some point of dividing you will reach a truely "fundamental" particle of which everything is then constructed from.

could not this "fundamental" particle be the 3-D projection of a divisible hyper-dimensional object?

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Re: mathematical visualization of nihilism. [Re: raytrace]
    #2401830 -

Taming infinity...

The world as a hologram: it's just like a trick of light that allows a fully three-dimensional image to be recorded on a flat piece of film, our seemingly three-dimensional universe could be completely equivalent to alternative quantum fields and physical laws painted on a distant, vast surface. ('information in the holographic universe' scientific american, aug 2003)

In the last 50 years field theory is the ultimate language. Fields, such as the elctromagnetic field, vary continuously from point to point, and they thereby describe an infinity of degrees of freedom. Superstring theory also embraces an infinite number of degrees of freedom. Holography restricts the number of degrees of freedom that can be present inside a bounding surface to a finite number. 'Field theory with its infinity cannot be the final story' according to the author of the article.

According to new chains of thought, a final theory (that encompasses our scientific reality) must not be concerned with fields, not even with spacetime, but rather with information exchange among physical processes. More and more 'high brows' at various scientific research institutes are being convinced that infinity might be tamed. Personally I would say the universe is infinite when it comes to information, size, etc. But that's a consequence of failing to grasp the meaning and dimension of such a load of information. I'll leave that to physicist in order to prevent a massive headache :wink:

Fiend, finished counting the particles in the universe?  :smile:


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Valar Morghulis

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Re: mathematical visualization of nihilism. [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2401949 -

Time, infinite time.

Perhaps there is a limit to the physical aspect of the Universe, ie a finite number of atoms, but who is to say there is a finite amount of time.

In a Universe of infinite time, there may be a limit to the configuration of the physical layer, but the temporal layer will always add a new dimension; a dimension that is infinitely divisible.

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Re: mathematical visualization of nihilism. [Re: raytrace]
    #2402648 -

could not this "fundamental" particle be the 3-D projection of a divisible hyper-dimensional object?

I suppose, but as our universe exists with only 4 extended dimensions, anything "outside" our universe would not contribute to the information content of "our" universe.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: mathematical visualization of nihilism. [Re: trendal]
    #2402694 -

trendal said:
However I think that the universe is not infinitely divisible. I think that at some point of dividing you will reach a truely "fundamental" particle of which everything is then constructed from. In string theory, for example, it is the "string" which is the smallest possible constituent.


*still hopes you are wrong* :grin:

Hehe, sorry. I have a theory based on some feelings and it would be cool if it would draw water.  :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: mathematical visualization of nihilism. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2402743 -

All theories are welcome in this mind of mine :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: mathematical visualization of nihilism. [Re: trendal]
    #2402754 -

Hehe, well, it is sort of an imagery thing... but give me a little while and I'll post it if I can figure out how to properly explain it. :wink:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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