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crunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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Re: Nihilism [Re: Ravus]
#4635453 - 09/08/05 08:13 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
But if the universe is actually part of your subjective mind, and the only boundaries are the boundaries of your mind, then what?
if i understand correctly, if nihilism is the statement that no values exist, and everything is subjective, then it's more or less the statement that you have no values.
do you find this to be true?
my guess is once "meaning" is eviscerated, what you're left with is animal impulses.
-------------------- "consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Nihilism [Re: Ravus]
#6490886 - 01/23/07 09:41 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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I this thread.
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aelephant
Stranger


Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 311
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Does it matter that nothing matters? Nihilism undermines itself quite easily. If you are truly a nihilist then you would agree that it does not matter that nothing matters.
As far as subjectivity/objectivity goes, I believe there is no objectivity. What we perceive as objective is just an example of building an answer to fit the question. All we've got in the realm of objectivity is probability. Does this matter? No. It can be useful, however, depending on what one chooses to use it for.
My question for Ravus is thus:
Why must your reason have an absolute meaning? If you put this condition on it, you will never find any reason to do anything. For what REASON do you require an absolute meaning?
-------------------- As we live a life of ease, Everyone of us has all we need Sky of blue and Sea of Green In our Yellow Submarine
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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What's the point of seeing everything with no values, no meaning? There is no point. Just like there is no point in putting meaning into things. Why do I do it? Because it makes me feel happy, it makes life more interesting to see what kind of realities my mind can create, to explore different possibilities.
You create your own reality. I remember going through my nihilistic period. I would think "The ultimate truth is that there is no ultimate truth. That means that everything is pointless." But, like aelephant said, I later realized this meant that nihilism was also pointless. The truth of nihilism wasn't any more true than anything else. Putting meaning into things was only pointless if I made it pointless. The problem with nihilism is that it's a belief disguised as Truth.
If you look at your life as a linear progression than sure there is no ultimate point, no goal - if you live in the moment, you aren't even thinking in terms of "why" or "what is the meaning behind this." The meaning is present in the moment. What I am trying to express here is that your "knowledge" or "wisdom" is bullshit - the only thing that is real is what is happening right now within or without your conceptual framework, whether nihilistic or hedonistic. Your nihilism is philosophy, not truth.
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Edited by cowabunga_dude (01/24/07 07:07 PM)
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Quote:
Why must your reason have an absolute meaning? If you put this condition on it, you will never find any reason to do anything. For what REASON do you require an absolute meaning?
What is reason and meaning that cannot be verified, that will not sustain itself with any length of time and that even the perceiver cannot believe in absolutely? The reason to do anything is that whether you do an action or do not do it, it is equally meaningless. Nihilism is not suicidal for this reason, because death contains no more hope than experience.
If you perform an action and a hundred years from now there is no recollection of that action, no positive or negative change in the universe and no one left to remember what you have done, your action is already meaningless. You may create false delusions in an attempt to make yourself happy, but happiness will also be forgotten and leave no effect on the environment around you. The otherworldly "meaning" created by dogmatic religions and blind spirituality may make some happy during their lifetime, but in most cases people end up dying for this meaning, and in the end it and all the casualties it caused are not even remembered. What's the point of that? And the truth of the matter is that meaning doesn't even usually accomplish the short-lived goal of happiness, as people become too attached to their meaning to adapt or thrive in an environment that doesn't support the meaning they've created for themselves. Those with no meaning can take in their perception and experience without boundaries, and can further eschew cognitive biases in an attempt to evade the contradictions abounding in the reality around them.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 11 days
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Quote:
cowabunga_dude said: What's the point of seeing everything with no values, no meaning? There is no point. Just like there is no point in putting meaning into things. Why do I do it? Because it makes me feel happy, it makes life more interesting to see what kind of realities my mind can create, to explore different possibilities.
Hhmm... sounds like a point to me.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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I've never known any nihilists beyond acquaintance so I can't claim to be knowledgeable on their lifestyles but I can't understand why someone would actively support such beliefs throughout their lifetime. Meaning, just because one believes not a single thing has divine purpose or meaning why should that stop them from still having their fun while they're here? But on the other hand, I understand that strong personal beliefs can and will determine the manner in which you live your life, because the value you attribute to any aspect of it will be in regards to your beliefs.
I myself like to think of things as positive or negative, constructive or destructive. Not that everything must conform to these two classifications but the majority would, maybe some would even cycle between the two based on external variables. It's hard to classify Nihilism in regards to these classifications though. Not that one has to, but anyway.. Would it denote positivity or negativity? It seems to me that Nihilism is radically neutral, so it must be neither, yes or no? What would cause it be one or the other?
It would probably rely on the individual. Would a lack of constructive action equate to support for destructive action? And if it did then would it enter the realm of destructiveness? For example, a nihilist may have no regard for the world around them, the people, the future condition of the world and the people in it and therefore their inaction may result in a diminished quality of life, denoting again the destructive categorization. At the same time, the nihilist may not actively be supporting negativity, it is only in the lack of action that it results. So where does that leave us?
I have rambled far too long without really saying much have I?
-------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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