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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4014124 - 04/04/05 07:23 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

and basically, i just made the 1/1 statement trying to show everything in everything, like how one apple is contained in the dimensions of one apple. Didnt really want to get on the neverending infinity/zero loop.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4014178 - 04/04/05 07:35 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Nihilism states that nothing can be known absolutely, nothing has any true purpose and human morals, ethics and even existence is just an illusion. Nihilism is dynamite to blow away old beliefs.

The problem with your post is that is violates one of the basic tenets of Nihilism, that there is one unified consciousness. You have never been outside of your own perception, so how do you know if there is a consciousness? That cannot be known, and is just a religious leap of faith. Hell, you've never been out of your own perception, so how do you know if your own perception even exists? We can make assumptions, we can say that we are just a tiny fraction of one unified consciousness with no purpose, but none of it can be known. This is just guessing and wishing, humans illusions that should be cleared away along with all the old rubble in the stream of Nihilistic thought.

Gorgias was perhaps one of the most ancient Nihilists, and summarized its philosophy best when he said, "Nothing exists; even if something could exist it, it could not be known; even if it could be known, knowledge about it could not be communicated." Life is pointless, just one grand illusion of subjective perception that we can never truely verify, and saying there is consciousness at all outside of our own is a grave assumption that Nihilism could not claim except as a chaotic joke.

Of course, along with being one of the most frustrating philosophies, it is also, to me, the most liberating and truthful I have ever come across. Quite a contradiction, that Nihilism could contain any truth, eh? Nihilism itself will cancel out after its work is done, and we are left in the sea of chaos that we were born into before we developed our lies to help us think we knew anything.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: Ravus]
    #4014523 - 04/04/05 08:54 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I pretty much agree with everything you stated ravus.... I only made the analogy of a single consciousness to get an idea across. It is how I kind of explain it to people, or better how I came about to cognite on the meaning of nihilism.
"Life is pointless, just one grand illusion of subjective perception that we can never truely verify" ---- that is a perfect summation of the end product of nihilism IMO, atleast this is what i have gotten from it.... It isnt just "a belief in nothing" as some people put it... more like "believing in THE NOTHING" (not the same from the never ending story.... but unintentionally as i typed that i just got that movie a whole hell of a lot more..)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4015523 - 04/05/05 12:42 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

You better go read the dictionary before criticising me.

"Philosophy.
An extreme form of skepticism that denies all existence.
A doctrine holding that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated"

The viewpoint you expressed was from a religious viewpoint, which is the antithesis of nihilism. Your whole exercise is pointless in the light of the definition of the word. Now, can you make your case or are you just good for insults?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4016002 - 04/05/05 05:37 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

That is ridiculous. Yous said Nihilism is the belief in nothing.... that is all. I dont see at any point where i really entangled religious views into nihilism, i was simply making an analogy which i thought would help people start to understand for themselves where i was coming from on this. I never said there is one single consciousness... i said IMAGINE one single consciousness, just like i said IMAGINE something like the NFL with only one team.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4016859 - 04/05/05 11:23 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Nihilism is the belief in "nothing" from a religious philosophic view. I suggest, once again, checking your terms.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4016922 - 04/05/05 11:34 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

is this like individual buddhists arguing about their egos?


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4016963 - 04/05/05 11:42 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I am not a Buddhist or a Nihilist...and I HAVE an ego thank you. I just found his point to be nonexistant so I said so.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: intro to "nihilism as origami" [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4017017 - 04/05/05 12:01 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Weather it falls in line with nihilism or not, I can see your message here psilo without getting hung up on labels.

I use the one team idea myself when the illusion of duality rears its ugly head. Take a visual of a football team getting their ass kicked by phantoms that look real, and feel real, but are only manifestations of the teams self defeating beliefs. It's funny when you apply that image to life's "apparent" oppositions.

If all you are trying to do is express the nothingness of oppositions to the One your message is a good one and can help people over come fears of oppositional forces if they have them.

If one pops up, change the scene around in your head and see it all as members of the same team with the same goal. The energy dynamics snap into a different place. It's empowering stuff. If no one wants to get your message being caught up on labels or simply can't due to a lack of imagination abilities then oh well.

Just delete the word nihilism from all of your posts and replace it with the word figgle. Then the focus can be returned to exploring your message.

That suggestion just made me think of something.

My daughter has been getting frustrated with minor art work screw ups lately and in a huff wants to throw what she has already done in the trash. I have been teaching her about creative control. When she gets in a huff and wants to trash her really good art work because of a little screw up, I show her how she let the screw up take control over her and the piece. I have been teaching her how to creatively overcome the the minor screw up and how to take her power back to save the piece.

She beams being back in the realization of her creative power to overcome!

I'm not saying you want to trash it or are getting huffy, but some seem to be over a minor word not fitting right within the context of a sweet piece of work. Creative License does require an imagination. I always wonder why people poo poo on the power of our imaginations to problem solve for us.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (04/05/05 12:50 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: Ravus]
    #4017450 - 04/05/05 01:31 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Nihilism states that nothing can be known absolutely, nothing has any true purpose and human morals, ethics and even existence is just an illusion. Nihilism is dynamite to blow away old beliefs.




Nihilism itself is not dynamite to blow away old beliefs, nihilism can be used as dynamite to blow away beliefs. :grin: Or something. :wink:

Quote:


Of course, along with being one of the most frustrating philosophies, it is also, to me, the most liberating and truthful I have ever come across. Quite a contradiction, that Nihilism could contain any truth, eh? Nihilism itself will cancel out after its work is done, and we are left in the sea of chaos that we were born into before we developed our lies to help us think we knew anything.




I don't understand how nihilism itself would contain any truth, but rather something outside of nihilistic thought would contain truth of a conceptual nihilism that draws a boundary that said conceptual nihilism cannot annihiliate. True nihilism would never leave anything left in anything. Nullification! Reduction to non-existance! :laugh:

Also, I'd like to note that I myself didn't perceive psilocyberin as stating that the idea of a unified consciousness was an idea of nihilism. He used it as an example to illustrate what would be subsequently annihilated (by nilhilsm, rightfully) if that example was true (meaning, beliefs, etc. etc. etc.). Or something. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4018282 - 04/05/05 05:04 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Main Entry: ni?hil?ism
Pronunciation: 'nI-(h)&-"li-z&m, 'nE-
Function: noun
Etymology: German Nihilismus, from Latin nihil nothing -- more at NIL
1 a : a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless b : a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths
2 a (1) : a doctrine or belief that conditions in the social organization are so bad as to make destruction desirable for its own sake independent of any constructive program or possibility

that was websters definition....

and maybe Wikipedias definition will help us see or diverging opinions on this matter...
Nihilism (NIGH-uh-liz-'m), literally, means belief in nothing. As a philosophical position, nihilism is the view that the world, and especially human existence, is without meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value. It is more often a charge levelled against a particular idea than a position to which someone is overtly subscribed. Movements such as Dada, Deconstructionism and Punk have been described by various observers as "nihilist". Nihilism is also a characteristic that has been ascribed to time periods: for example, Baudrillard has called postmodernity a nihilistic epoch, and some Christian theologians and figures of authority assert that modernity and postmodernity represents the rejection of God, and therefore are nihilist.

sure, the word Nihilist, literally means a belief in nothing, but the philosophy behind it is so much more than just that, nor is that even the encompassing point or thesis of nihilism....


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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4018673 - 04/05/05 06:58 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

By infinite I meant non-local, timeless, and undefined.


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OfflineLux
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4018795 - 04/05/05 07:23 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Is meaning not inherently subjective? If so an objective meaning does not seem possible, so then a fundamental law(one which radiates throughout) of reality would have to be that there is no meaning in mere existence. Instead meaning is projected onto things by conscious beings.

Recognizing this, we are given an unlimited potential of meaning to apply to reality. The question must then become not what is the meaning of so and so, but what is your meaning? To some it may seem rather dissapointing to be robbed of this search(the meaning of it all). Others however will recognize that they were simply searching in the wrong place.

If the question is what is your meaning, then it's source must be explored. It seems rather obvious that the source of this projected meaning is the individual. Aha! So then, it is not outside ourselves that we must search for meaning in reality, existence, etc., but within ourselves!


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OfflinePed
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: Lux]
    #4020208 - 04/06/05 02:08 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Nihilism is an extreme philosophy that was obsolete the moment it's core principles were first expressed. That is it's nature. It is precisely because things lack inherent attributes that they can exist as part of a continuum. The opposite extreme, existentialism, suggests an impossible universe where objects are independent and therefore in fundamental disharmony with eachother. The unity of these two philosophies understands that it's because things are empty that they exist at all, and it's because of conciousness that meaning is ascribed to people, things, and events.

The only use of nihilism is to contrast our habituated perceptual assumptions of existentialism so that we might discover how things actually are.


--------------------


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Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: intro to nihilism [Re: Ped]
    #4020905 - 04/06/05 09:22 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
Nihilism is an extreme philosophy that was obsolete the moment it's core principles were first expressed. That is it's nature. It is precisely because things lack inherent attributes that they can exist as part of a continuum. The opposite extreme, existentialism, suggests an impossible universe where objects are independent and therefore in fundamental disharmony with eachother. The unity of these two philosophies understands that it's because things are empty that they exist at all, and it's because of conciousness that meaning is ascribed to people, things, and events.

The only use of nihilism is to contrast our habituated perceptual assumptions of existentialism so that we might discover how things actually are.




If anyone is interested in that, definetly rent the movie "I heart Huckabees" It's what it's based on and it's funny!


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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