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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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size of space
    #3909301 -

I don't know if you have heard about this, but
some scientists say that the current universe is so huge that
it exploits every possiblity of structural patterns, and is probably starting to repeat itself in intervals

So not only there is a chance of alien life in such a scenario, but there is a chance that there is another earth out there with humans or dinosaurs.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3909591 -

We'll know when string theory is developed enough :tongue: ... supposedly anyhow.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: size of space [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3909636 -

another planet similar to earth, same distance from a star, of course there is another, why would life not develop in the same manner

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Re: size of space [Re: fresh313]
    #3909654 -

How similar are you suggesting it to Earth? And what of the resulting situation of the solar system itself? (Sun size, age)


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: size of space [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3910520 -

Imagine this....

take a cubic light year for example. Considering the size of particles and the avarage density per cubic light year, there is
a limited number of possibilities of how these particles can be aranged in one cubic light year.

an example:
On a smaller scale, think of 2x2 field and 4 little squares that you can put in the 4x4 field. One of them is red, one of them green, one blue and one pink. There is a limited number of possibilities of how you can arrange the squares in the 2x2 field.
The number of possibilities is 4 on 4th potention, and that is
256 (believe it or not)

And now you have a long line on wich there are thousands of 2x2 fields arranged horisontally. they are all number from 1 to 1000 or beyond. All fields are arranged differently by using different combinations of 4 squares. Fields 1 to 256 would all be different, but when you pass the field 256 there is no choice but to repeat some combination of squares from the first 256 fields.
So the long line of fields begins to repeat itself.

Now one 2x2 filed is say cubic million of kilometers, and space (universe) is the long line of 2x2 fields arranged differently (long collection of cubic millions of kilometers)

So now if space is big enough, the little boxes of space (cubic millions of kilometers) begin to repeat themselfs just as 2x2 fileds in the simplified example.

If the number of cubic millions of kilometers is twice the number of possible material arrangements inside one cubic kilometer, that means
that there is a clone for everything, and there is another earth identical to ours where someone is typing the exact same text as I am now


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: size of space [Re: fresh313]
    #3910547 -

That's not what I'm talking about...
I'm talking about repetition of exact same patterns


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3912291 -

i believe if you make a big enough telescope, and point it the right way, you will see yourself from behind.

the universe is shaped exactly like the earth if you go straight long enough you will end up where you were.

like the game astoroids, you go off the screen, and than you end up on the other side.

thats what i think, anyways.


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.

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Re: size of space [Re: JCoke]
    #3912307 -

I agree to a degree OldWoodSpecter.

Edit: (Was thousands, have no fuckin' clue about the # actually made so...)

A shit load of keys are made by automobile companies around the world... Yet their have been strange stories of coinciednce where two strangers have been in the same pariking lots, with the same car type model/color that have driven away with each others cars.

It's bound to happen to some degree with chance...

But, that only applies to situations with a limited number of variables.

Now what you are talking about contains far too many variable to occur by chance, regardless of the nature of the system. Such a duplication to such a respect is highly unlikely. It'd be like meeting someone that has your exact genetic code, yet isn't in anyway your descendent, nor from your family line... highly unlikely... far too many variables involved.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/13/05 04:37 PM)

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Re: size of space [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3912335 -

This is all theory though... the most any of us can do is hypothesize. When I think about the Universe sometimes it hurts....there are so many posibilities.


Also.... props to JCoke for the Modest MOuse reference and the totally sweet avatar that is now my background

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Re: size of space [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3912384 -

The number of combinations in one cubic million kilometers is unimaginable, but still, if space were big enough, it would indeed start to duplicate, there is no other choice

but in reality, space probably isn't so big


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3912422 -

Aye, not disagreeing with you about that. There'd be no other choice but to duplicate some forms... but as to what degree is the question. Duplicate in form, yes, I agree, but exactly e.g. clone like? I doubt that.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: size of space [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3912467 -

I'm not talking about duplication of objects or species,
but whole chops of space-time all together...you know everything, matter, energy, history everything identical.

this is not chance, think about it, if the size is adequate it is unavoidable


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3912475 -

No... that is assumption. Think about it. We don't know as much as we pretend to know... but we sure do assume a lot. (humans)


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3912497 -

Did Imelda Marcos have duplicate shoes in her closet space?

Seriosuly though, I doubt that space is big enough for total duplication. I would have to dig deeper into the mathematics, but I just don't see it.

Slight digression: I have a music synthesizer, that for all intents and purposes, can produce a near-infinte number of sounds, yet cannot duplicate the sound of my other synthesizer.

Not all infinities are the same size or are all-encompassing.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3912576 -

there are an infinite number of possible arrangements of matter in any given volume of space.

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Re: size of space [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3912597 -

Since space is not continuouse but quantized, there is a finite number of possibilities in a single area.
Matter can not be anywhere, and energy can not be of any given
strenght. All is quantised. The universe is digital, or so we assume in modern science.

P.s. psychoactive: mathematics are not assumptions, it is pure logic.
Remember the analogy with the squares and the long line of squares.

The only obstacle is the size of space. There is no chance that
it can be big enough for total repetition


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: size of space [Re: Swami]
    #3912610 -

An analog modular synth has an almost infinite number of possible sounds, but its near infinity goes into microvariations of waves, and still works in a very limited interval of possibilities, so your other synth is just outside that interval.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3912637 -

Quote:
Since space is not continuouse but quantized


there are an infinite number of places that a particle can exist between point A and point B. when it moves from point A to point B, it does so continuously, not in steps. it's not like a dot moving across your computer monitor, jumping from pixel to pixel - there are no pixels. its a continuum.

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Re: size of space [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3912651 -

Ok, you got me there


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3912660 -

OldWoodSpecter said:
P.s. psychoactive: mathematics are not assumptions, it is pure logic.
Remember the analogy with the squares and the long line of squares.



I beg to differ. Mathematics is based a lot on the assumption that you assert certain corollary's are true, and further use that as a basis to substantiate the logic.



--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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