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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications
    #2313384 - 02/08/04 02:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

For the purpose of this discussion, let's ALL pretend that no aliens are currently visiting us. If that is too hard to do, then go with this part: We have never yet found life on another planet.

Let's say that we come up with warp drive within the next 100 years and after exploring space for, oh, say 10,000 years we discover one of the following scenarios. Pick any one and discuss the philsophical implications.

1. No life or remnants thereof are found anywhere, but on earth.

2. No current life is found anywhere else, but fossilized remains are discovered.

3. Simple lifeforms are found throughout the galaxy, but no other complex animals nor civilzations are found.

4. Other complex "intelligent" lifeforms are found, but are so alien in nature as to make any practical form of communication impossible.

5. Create your own scenario...

What will any of these tell of us our place in the universe and our nature?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Swami]
    #2313395 - 02/08/04 02:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Swami]
    #2313447 - 02/08/04 02:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: ]
    #2313472 - 02/08/04 03:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

we could still be no closer to solving the conundrum of man

True enough. I started this post for historical reasons. Whatever scenario plays out, many people will use it to further their current view rather than using new data to rethink the implications. This is not necessarily a bad thing, just a note.

No life: "We are unique; therefore God created us for a special purpose."

Abundant life: "God's love is universal and our purpose is to share with other lifeforms." (or at least integrate them into a fried rice dish... sorry, can't help myself!)

There will always be some "spin" to whatever facts are uncovered. I am interested in how these may align with different poster's paradigms of the universe.

What did the existential bum say to the passer-by? Brother, can you spare a paradigm!  :lol:


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Anonymous

Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Swami]
    #2313488 - 02/08/04 03:16 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Swami]
    #2313497 - 02/08/04 03:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Swami]
    #2313523 - 02/08/04 03:33 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It might say that the human race is pretty slow for asking themselves the same question for 10,000 years?



I dont think you could get to that stage without adressing those issues.

That might completely change the ground for the way we think, and maybe we wouldnt ask "how does this fit in with god's plan?" Or whatever.

What new religions could spawn? What new great "leaders" in 10,000 years?

Why we even came to ask this question might be irrelevant, and not have anything to do concerning other life.


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What?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2313569 - 02/08/04 03:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I used the 10,000 years so as to give us enough time to explore the galaxy. Naturally, if we discovered an advanced civilization right away, the 10,000 year window is unnecessary.


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
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Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Swami]
    #2313580 - 02/08/04 03:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

well that changes things completely!


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What?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: ]
    #2313593 - 02/08/04 04:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The verisimilitudes of ontological predicates that form the objections from apodictic transformation schemata are that which subsumes the platonic metaphysical realism. That being the case, epistemological consequents to the ill-formed notions of certain metaphysical antecedents cannot lead us to conclude that the current methodological tenets of naturalism are true, or verifiable by the epistemological methodology currently being used.

I bet you gave yourself a headache. :biggrin:


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Swami]
    #2313822 - 02/08/04 09:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Gave ME a freakin' headache...


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
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Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Swami]
    #2313903 - 02/08/04 11:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think it would be intresting to see how Christianity evolves its ideas to apply to the existance of extraterestrial life into it's prophecies and belief system. Although the whole religion is founded in the belief that there are beings superior to us not from this planet (angles, demons, and the ruler of the universe himself) many Christians have trouble adapting to the idea of extraterestial life. Many of these people have no idea of the distance between our Sun and the nearest star on our galaxy, neither do they have a clue of the abundance of stars in our Galaxy alone, let alone the Universe. Therefore it is very hard for them to calculate the chances of life evolving anywhere else but on this little special piece of dust that God has chosen.

However the size of the universe that favors the chances of extraterestial life, also lowers the chances
of life being near enough for us to contact it anytime soon. If an ususpecting alien ship was to pass through our solar system, unless it had advance techniques for searching for life on a gigantic range of space, it probably just pass by us without a clue that it just passed a developed civilization. Many bring up the arguement that if they are advanced enough to get this far, they are advanced enough to detect radio waves, wich is simply an assumption. And even if it just so happens to pass by the third rock from the sun, our planet from space shows no signs that is occupied by cities, empires, kingdoms and technology. Ofcourse there is the small chance that they are familiar with our kind of life organism and by seeing water on this planet would assume that life could have evolved here. However this doesent imply that this planet has the needed resources for them to survive, therefore this lowers even lower the chances of them stopping by.

If all odds are broken and the life we come in contact with,( wether we find them or they find us), happens to be in our intelectal range. and by this i mean for their communication to be somewhat like ours, verbal or not. Most likely we would endure many years struggling to communicate with eachother. It would probably be just as hard as us trying to communicate with Dolphins.


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Anonymous

Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Spokesman]
    #2314005 - 02/08/04 12:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

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Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: ]
    #2314055 - 02/08/04 12:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I do agree that scientificaly, it took many factors to sprout life in this planet. Timing was very esential. However, with the number of Suns and planets in existance it is not hard to believe that somewhere in the enourmous timeline of existances these factors have all met eachother in a diffrent part of space.
Sort of like the aligning of the planets, not an everyday thing but it happens.
Or, perhaps there is life that sprouted from diffrent curcumstances. We like to assume that our life recipe in this planet is the universal blueprint for creating life but just because we make that assumption it doesent make it a fact.

And I also have a theory tying Christian idealogy and prophecies to extraterestial life but i also dont like discussing it.


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Offlinebutterflydawn
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Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Swami]
    #2314086 - 02/08/04 01:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

stop waiting them to visit you...

take 5 gr.+ in silent darkness by yourself...

take a ride to hyperspace by not a rocket ship...by 5 gr.+

you visit them :smile:


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lucidal expansion


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Anonymous

Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Spokesman]
    #2314093 - 02/08/04 01:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Swami]
    #2314187 - 02/08/04 01:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

1. No life or remnants thereof are found anywhere, but on earth.

Then I'd be questioning why so much space?

"I dunno. I know I should be objective, ice-cold hard-assed scientific about it, but just on an intuitive level -- what's the point of a universe so vast if we're the only ones in it? It'd just be such a... waste of space." --Peter (from the movie Contact).


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Swami]
    #2314197 - 02/08/04 01:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

4. Other complex "intelligent" lifeforms are found, but are so alien in nature as to make any practical form of communication impossible.

I doubt these circumstances would subdue the human spirit. As long as there's a mystery, man would keep trying (to communicate).


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Offlinebutterflydawn
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Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Swami]
    #2314215 - 02/08/04 01:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

''4. Other complex "intelligent" lifeforms are found, but are so alien in nature as to make any practical form of communication impossible.''

as i said with 5gr.+ in silent darkness by yourself,it is POSSIBLE


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Space Exploration and Philosophical Ramifications [Re: Swami]
    #2314692 - 02/08/04 04:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"1. No life or remnants thereof are found anywhere, but on earth."

bummer! I was hoping there'd be some aliens to hug somewhere..

"2. No current life is found anywhere else, but fossilized remains are discovered."

COOL! Fossils! Bummer though because I don't want to hug fossils

"3. Simple lifeforms are found throughout the galaxy, but no other complex animals nor civilzations are found."

neato! let's take some home and mess with them! gee I sure wish there were some aliens around to hug

"4. Other complex "intelligent" lifeforms are found, but are so alien in nature as to make any practical form of communication impossible."

come on aliens you won't even let me hug you?

"5. Other complex "intelligent" lifeforms are found, and it turns out they are far more advanced than we - they easily learn to stoop to our level of communication and suddenly our whole mental universe experiences a "big bang" as the aliens bring us up to speed on what is going on and then ask for our help on their newest "problem."

ok aliens - give us a hug and we'll try to help you out because the issues you deem "major" seem like much more practical things to be working on


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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