Home | Community | Message Board


Mushrooms.com
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop: Scales

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
size of space
    #3909301 - 03/12/05 11:03 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know if you have heard about this, but
some scientists say that the current universe is so huge that
it exploits every possiblity of structural patterns, and is probably starting to repeat itself in intervals

So not only there is a chance of alien life in such a scenario, but there is a chance that there is another earth out there with humans or dinosaurs.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3909591 - 03/13/05 12:16 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

We'll know when string theory is developed enough :tongue: ... supposedly anyhow.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefresh313
journeyman
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: size of space [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3909636 - 03/13/05 12:26 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

another planet similar to earth, same distance from a star, of course there is another, why would life not develop in the same manner


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: size of space [Re: fresh313]
    #3909654 - 03/13/05 12:31 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

How similar are you suggesting it to Earth? And what of the resulting situation of the solar system itself? (Sun size, age)


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: size of space [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3910520 - 03/13/05 08:04 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Imagine this....

take a cubic light year for example. Considering the size of particles and the avarage density per cubic light year, there is
a limited number of possibilities of how these particles can be aranged in one cubic light year.

an example:
On a smaller scale, think of 2x2 field and 4 little squares that you can put in the 4x4 field. One of them is red, one of them green, one blue and one pink. There is a limited number of possibilities of how you can arrange the squares in the 2x2 field.
The number of possibilities is 4 on 4th potention, and that is
256 (believe it or not)

And now you have a long line on wich there are thousands of 2x2 fields arranged horisontally. they are all number from 1 to 1000 or beyond. All fields are arranged differently by using different combinations of 4 squares. Fields 1 to 256 would all be different, but when you pass the field 256 there is no choice but to repeat some combination of squares from the first 256 fields.
So the long line of fields begins to repeat itself.

Now one 2x2 filed is say cubic million of kilometers, and space (universe) is the long line of 2x2 fields arranged differently (long collection of cubic millions of kilometers)

So now if space is big enough, the little boxes of space (cubic millions of kilometers) begin to repeat themselfs just as 2x2 fileds in the simplified example.

If the number of cubic millions of kilometers is twice the number of possible material arrangements inside one cubic kilometer, that means
that there is a clone for everything, and there is another earth identical to ours where someone is typing the exact same text as I am now


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: size of space [Re: fresh313]
    #3910547 - 03/13/05 08:30 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

That's not what I'm talking about...
I'm talking about repetition of exact same patterns


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineJCoke
dream observer
Male

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 1,229
Loc: maryland Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3912291 - 03/13/05 06:21 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

i believe if you make a big enough telescope, and point it the right way, you will see yourself from behind.

the universe is shaped exactly like the earth if you go straight long enough you will end up where you were.

like the game astoroids, you go off the screen, and than you end up on the other side.

thats what i think, anyways.


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: size of space [Re: JCoke]
    #3912307 - 03/13/05 06:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I agree to a degree OldWoodSpecter.

Edit: (Was thousands, have no fuckin' clue about the # actually made so...)

A shit load of keys are made by automobile companies around the world... Yet their have been strange stories of coinciednce where two strangers have been in the same pariking lots, with the same car type model/color that have driven away with each others cars.

It's bound to happen to some degree with chance...

But, that only applies to situations with a limited number of variables.

Now what you are talking about contains far too many variable to occur by chance, regardless of the nature of the system. Such a duplication to such a respect is highly unlikely. It'd be like meeting someone that has your exact genetic code, yet isn't in anyway your descendent, nor from your family line... highly unlikely... far too many variables involved.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/13/05 06:37 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineIrishNation
The Color Verde

Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 100
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: size of space [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3912335 - 03/13/05 06:34 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

This is all theory though... the most any of us can do is hypothesize. When I think about the Universe sometimes it hurts....there are so many posibilities.


Also.... props to JCoke for the Modest MOuse reference and the totally sweet avatar that is now my background


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: size of space [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3912384 - 03/13/05 06:45 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The number of combinations in one cubic million kilometers is unimaginable, but still, if space were big enough, it would indeed start to duplicate, there is no other choice

but in reality, space probably isn't so big


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3912422 - 03/13/05 06:52 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Aye, not disagreeing with you about that. There'd be no other choice but to duplicate some forms... but as to what degree is the question. Duplicate in form, yes, I agree, but exactly e.g. clone like? I doubt that.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: size of space [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3912467 - 03/13/05 07:04 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not talking about duplication of objects or species,
but whole chops of space-time all together...you know everything, matter, energy, history everything identical.

this is not chance, think about it, if the size is adequate it is unavoidable


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3912475 - 03/13/05 07:06 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

No... that is assumption. Think about it. We don't know as much as we pretend to know... but we sure do assume a lot. (humans)


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3912497 - 03/13/05 07:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Did Imelda Marcos have duplicate shoes in her closet space?

Seriosuly though, I doubt that space is big enough for total duplication. I would have to dig deeper into the mathematics, but I just don't see it.

Slight digression: I have a music synthesizer, that for all intents and purposes, can produce a near-infinte number of sounds, yet cannot duplicate the sound of my other synthesizer.

Not all infinities are the same size or are all-encompassing.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3912576 - 03/13/05 07:34 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

there are an infinite number of possible arrangements of matter in any given volume of space.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: size of space [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3912597 - 03/13/05 07:42 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Since space is not continuouse but quantized, there is a finite number of possibilities in a single area.
Matter can not be anywhere, and energy can not be of any given
strenght. All is quantised. The universe is digital, or so we assume in modern science.

P.s. psychoactive: mathematics are not assumptions, it is pure logic.
Remember the analogy with the squares and the long line of squares.

The only obstacle is the size of space. There is no chance that
it can be big enough for total repetition


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: size of space [Re: Swami]
    #3912610 - 03/13/05 07:45 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

An analog modular synth has an almost infinite number of possible sounds, but its near infinity goes into microvariations of waves, and still works in a very limited interval of possibilities, so your other synth is just outside that interval.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3912637 - 03/13/05 07:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Since space is not continuouse but quantized




there are an infinite number of places that a particle can exist between point A and point B. when it moves from point A to point B, it does so continuously, not in steps. it's not like a dot moving across your computer monitor, jumping from pixel to pixel - there are no pixels. its a continuum.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: size of space [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3912651 - 03/13/05 07:54 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, you got me there


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: size of space [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3912660 - 03/13/05 07:56 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:

P.s. psychoactive: mathematics are not assumptions, it is pure logic.
Remember the analogy with the squares and the long line of squares.





I beg to differ. Mathematics is based a lot on the assumption that you assert certain corollary's are true, and further use that as a basis to substantiate the logic.



--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Amazon Shop: Scales

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* an interesting site, god is a mathematic formula Smack31 1,086 8 08/09/02 12:32 PM
by Anonymous
* The Relevance of Mathematics Amberthefrog 815 10 10/05/07 08:54 AM
by Amberthefrog
* Space and Reality Event_Horizon 825 15 11/13/04 03:33 PM
by Gomp
* The Assumption of Randomness
( 1 2 all )
mofo 1,789 27 08/18/08 03:46 PM
by deCypher
* Mathematical Explanation...
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Deiymiyan 8,182 140 03/10/06 11:01 AM
by fireworks_god
* Space Impact Responsible for the Survival of Christianity? Jackal 685 5 06/24/03 04:24 PM
by fireworks_god
* mathematics:human discovery or invention? *DELETED*
( 1 2 3 4 all )
0toxic0 3,530 60 08/08/03 04:14 PM
by Diploid
* mathematically speaking, Hate beats Love 2-0
( 1 2 all )
Zekebomb 3,401 33 02/08/05 01:32 PM
by Ped

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
1,107 topic views. 0 members, 2 guests and 10 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Gaiana.nl
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.044 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 20 queries.