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Re: Why I don't believe in Karma. [Re: a_h_w]
    #3832312 -

And this idea of karma being justice for acts from a past life WOULD mean that the universe knows the difference between good and evil. How could that work? I don't think that any moral statement can be judged as being true or false. "Good" and "bad" are far too arbitrary and ill-defined.

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Re: Why I don't believe in Karma. [Re: deafpanda]
    #3832324 -

deafpanda said:
And this idea of karma being justice for acts from a past life WOULD mean that the universe knows the difference between good and evil.


no it only means WE know the difference.

of course it is difficult to tell good from bad, but it's not impossible as you put it.

jesus says we should all love each other. what's ambiguous about that and what damage could possibly come out of it?

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it hasn't been explained properly [Re: a_h_w] * 1
    #3832357 -

I would say that 99% use the term karma in the same way as christians and jews and muslims say "it is the will of God" - but this is not what karma is. and that is where people get all confused. really.

karma is a personal thing limited in scope and influence but real none the less.

3 roots of bad karma are hatred greed and delusion
3 roots of good karma are love generosity and clarity

the results of bad karma are pain
the results of good karma are pleasure.

that's it. (you can store it up for a while but not too long)

if you feel you don't deserve the pleasure you screen it out
if you feel you deserve more pain you attract to it.

the judge is internal and relentless.

some people suppose they are telekinetic.
if that is true then they better be good 'cause they can thwack themselves on the back of the head with anything lying around.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: it hasn't been explained properly [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3832366 -

Karma is baggage
Good, evil, it matters not
Baggage is baggage


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Why I don't believe in Karma. [Re: a_h_w]
    #3832379 -

a_h_w said:
why are babies born into this world to suffer enormously and end up dying? how can you possibly explain that?

karma says that what you do in this life will influence your next life.

so maybe that was someone who did very wrong in a previous life.



The funny thing about Karma is you cant be outside of a situation and always "see" where the Karma is directed.

In your example of the baby suffering. The suffering may have been directed to one of the parents. Perhaps the mother was a very bad person in their previous life. Maybe killed someones child.

Karma is letting the mother's "soul" experience the great pain that it inflicted, it its previous life.

Karma is a way of trying to live in harmony with your surroundings.

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Re: Why I don't believe in Karma. [Re: niteowl]
    #3832404 -

don't bother to look out side of the single lifetime for karma.

the terrible condition of the baby is not what it appears.
the sufferring of the parents is suffering they cannot escape.
if the parent karma is terrible, they will dive deep into this problem, if the parent karma is good, they will not be crippled by the disaster and some good will seem to come of it anyway.

the actual ballance sheet is outside of the scope of karma and karma will not explain why an affliction has occured, only how people endure it.
everyone is suffering, the child's position is very hard to discern.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why I don't believe in Karma. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3832479 -

The point I was making is that Karma is a personal thing, and you dont always know where it is directed.

It is a theory. A way of living your life.

If you believe in karma you will be more willing to treat people with respect. Less likley to be an asshole.

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Re: Why I don't believe in Karma. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3832490 -

redgreenvines said:
everyone is suffering, the child's position is very hard to discern.


I try to see the children as angels(of a sort) or a more enlightened spirit. Sent to help "spread the Karma", if you will. Bring everything back in balance.

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Re: Why I don't believe in Karma. [Re: niteowl]
    #3832496 -

yes it can be an integral part of the way of living one's life:
eliminating the causes of bad karma in their own actions
and understanding better what is happenning to others


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why I don't believe in Karma. [Re: kaleras]
    #3832545 -

I think some of the difficulty you're having with karma stems from your analogy. I think it's flawed. Positive energy represents good..Negative energy represents bad? I don't really buy that.

If you're looking for a dynamic physical model that mirrors the spiritual, examining the way light manifests could yield far more insights. It's a deep subject and not too many people care to look into it.


--------------------
I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: Why I don't believe in Karma. [Re: Jellric]
    #3832596 -

positive and negative might be too vague a notion

in buddhist text it is very specific:

3 roots of bad karma are hatred greed and delusion
3 roots of good karma are love generosity and clarity

the results of bad karma are pain
the results of good karma are pleasure.

really very specific and nothing about lifetimes and god or anything


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why I don't believe in Karma. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3832667 -

That is true but it can be interpreted many different ways.

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Re: Why I don't believe in Karma. [Re: niteowl]
    #3832738 -

well
on the one hand
OUCH!!!!
and the other
MMMMM...

and a few variations and degrees of each but not too confusing.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why I don't believe in Karma. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3835988 -

Niteowl, I reject your claim that if you believe in karma you are more likely to do good because you will get something out of it. That is like the idea that religious people are more moral than non-religious people. Atheists and people who don't believe in karma can be good just because they think that's the best way to live. There's no need to evoke a mystical reason for doing so.

I totally reject the notion of karma as punishment for bad acts, but redgreenvines' version is better. While I'm not sure it is anything other than a sort of common-sense psychological theory, it seems fairly valid to me.

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Re: Why I don't believe in Karma. [Re: deafpanda]
    #3839654 -

deafpanda said:
Niteowl, I reject your claim that if you believe in karma you are more likely to do good because you will get something out of it. That is like the idea that religious people are more moral than non-religious people. Atheists and people who don't believe in karma can be good just because they think that's the best way to live. There's no need to evoke a mystical reason for doing so.


I didnt say that they were more moral than non religious people. Just that people who believe in Karma are less likley to do something bad.

Not more likley to do good.

Less likley to do bad.


Their is a difference.

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Re: Why I don't believe in Karma. [Re: niteowl]
    #3840271 -

Regardless of a belief in karma, Good and bad actions have results, for example

Let imagine im your friend, if i were to say how much i like you and respect you, you'd feel good right?

And if i were to call you a f***in c**t who doesnt no his head from his a**, your likely to feel quite angry or some similar negativity emotion towards me.

Hence cause and effect.


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