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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Where does karma come from
    #1650607 - 06/21/03 11:21 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Is it an outside force that balances the universe and the right and wrong within us, or is it our sub-conscience working to balance our inequities from within by leading us into the situations that bring back to us what we sent out.


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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Offlinenubious
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1650618 - 06/21/03 11:30 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

I tend to think Karma more of cause & effect. For every action, there is a reaction - whether or not a link in the positivity of your action vs the positivity of the reaction towards you exists, I'm not sure - but I tend to lean towards the believing side.


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: nubious]
    #1650626 - 06/21/03 11:38 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

But is the reaction coming from an outside force or is it from within. I think you are saying that it is from the outside sort of like fate.
I think it is a mechanism within our minds that tries to balance us. If you wrong someone your sab-conscience tries to create situations that will bring that wrong back to you and theby equalize the balance of good and evil within ourselvs.


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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OfflineCockyMandrill
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1650640 - 06/21/03 11:52 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Its all from within. Say if someone steps on your shoe, and you react violently, the next time that happens you are more likely to react violently and you have bad karma imprinted in you from your decisions. How you react to current situations effects how you react to future situations, bad karma would then surface back up when a similar incident happens.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1650663 - 06/21/03 12:07 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Karmais the Universal balancing force...it exists within all things. Destruction and Creation.

It gets things done, keeps things from stagnating.

The tree takes energy from the soil, gives it to the air. This is karma.
The star takes elements from the universe, and transforms and returns them. This is karma.
The man kills or hurts someone, and eventually will need to balance this karma. Murder and fighting and so on are all karma issues, they are either balancing karma from past lives, or creating new karma to be resolved in the future.

From every aspect of reality, you can be sure to find karma. From the deepest microscopic niche of single celled organisms, to the vast expanse of cosmos.

It is a perpetual state of balance, constantly creating new soul interactions, disdain, and methods of resolvement. It is all-pervading, both an internal force within each of us, and an external, outside, Universal force. It is the thread that binds us together. It is what connects us.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: Shroomism]
    #1650693 - 06/21/03 12:22 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Most of that stuff can be explained by the physical sciences without the need for karma. To believe that is karma seems akin to believing on God or Allah. But if a man kills someone, some part of his mind knows he has done wrong. And it is his own sub-conscience that works to create situations that will repay him that wrongness. I think karma in it's classical sense does not exist, it is a psychology.



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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: nubious]
    #1650756 - 06/21/03 12:52 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

I tend to think Karma more of cause & effect.




That's how I think about karma too. If I remember correctly, karma literally means "action" in sanskrit, and the term for the result of the action is "vipaka".

I think of karma both as the conditions that caused my existence to be what it is, and my own actions that are new causes which in turn have effects on the rest of the world and on myself.

One thing I don't understand in buddhism is that a Buddha is supposed to stop generating new karma after he has become enlightened. But he will still live the rest of his lifespan as a human doing stuff and making things happen. That doesn't make sense to me. Why shouldn't that count as new karma?


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1650798 - 06/21/03 01:14 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)


Where does karma come from?

My ass.


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: Murex]
    #1650822 - 06/21/03 01:26 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

exactly


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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OfflineCockyMandrill
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1650859 - 06/21/03 01:48 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Karma is created from the dualistic mind, from grasping and aversion, wanting one thing and repulsed by another. Any preference creates karma. The buddha has acheived a non-dualistic mind, he lives fully in the moment and removed all traces of his karma. To have karma you have to have dualism, which is why the buddha can live without karma.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: CockyMandrill]
    #1650888 - 06/21/03 02:06 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

And thus it is a product of the mind. Nothing more.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: CockyMandrill]
    #1650976 - 06/21/03 02:44 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Any preference creates karma. The buddha has acheived a non-dualistic mind, he lives fully in the moment and removed all traces of his karma.




Is that really true? Doesn't the buddha have preferences, like for example doesn't he prefer to see all beings become enlightened rather than not? And doesn't he prefer to eat when he is hungry, rather than starve?


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1651001 - 06/21/03 02:55 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Maybe he creates karma but is able to immediately transcend it.


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1651040 - 06/21/03 03:05 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

the problem with karma that often gets over looked in the rush of westerners to embrace eastern concepts is that karma can be used as a justification for a caste system (as in india...) quite easily.

see, if one is to believe in "karma" in the hindu sense then one is more likely to accept his or her socioeconomic position, physical self, health, etc. as a result of earlier (previous lives) good or bad actions. this is how you get a billion starving people in asia.

of course, if you simply remove word karma, and state the maxim "what comes around goes around", all problems of this sort are gone. But it's not trendy to say that.

karma = trendy


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineCockyMandrill
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1651063 - 06/21/03 03:14 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

well food is a natural human need, not a preference. Why would he prefer anything over the other, he has already arrived at the truth, that suffering is only an illusion, and the only way to break out of the cycle of suffering is through non-dualism, so desire will not hold you to the physical planes.


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Invisibletomatoes
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: Malachi]
    #1651134 - 06/21/03 03:35 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)



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OfflineCleverName
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1651161 - 06/21/03 03:51 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Where does karma come from?


where does this question come from?


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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Invisibletomatoes
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: CleverName]
    #1651182 - 06/21/03 04:03 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)



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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: CleverName]
    #1651394 - 06/21/03 05:33 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

CleverName said:Where does this question come from?




The same place karma comes from.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
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Re: Where does karma come from [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1651466 - 06/21/03 06:03 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

karma is the universe. the universe is in constant balance, the universe is balance, consequently, everything within the universe is a manifestation of this balance, and thusly, everything is subject to karma, which is the process that sustains balance.


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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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