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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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extraterrestrials and the old testament...
    #3778390 - 02/14/05 01:25 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I have been mentioning this in some other threads, but now I would really like to hear what do those who believe in extraterrestrials (in UFO's) think of this idea.

Mars (or the planet some say that existed between earh and mars), thousands or millions of years ago. Filled with life, and an intelligent species.

So they come to earth, and see a lot of potential for life, and fill it with lifeforms all sorted by species. Then they create a man with a bit of genetic engeniering, a man that looks a lot like them, but is not supose to be selfaware. They put the man and all the other species somewhere in Asia or middle east. The put the man to sleep (as it is in the Bible), perfom some tests and use his genetic material to create a woman. The man and woman live in some kind of garden, a interplanetary zoo or whatever.
But now both the man and the woman somehow gain consciousness of themselfs, and become like their fathers. (In the bible it is said "they became like US")
So they end all screwed up, and unbalanced because of that. The specimens are rejected and the send them away fromj the garden, set a force field or laser beams to protect it (fiery sword)
Then all goes as it goes, people multiply and there are more and more of them.
In that time, the earth is allso inhabited by other test specimens
Nephilim. And the tests continue, the sons of god, alien beings
continue to mix their genetic material with earh "daughters" in hope of creating stable sentient species.

But it seems like every test had failed and they have a whole ecosystem of unstable animals and hal-people of all kinds, yet they
are killing each other and could never set up a stable natural system.

So the aliens decide to start from scratch, and select Noah and all carrying his genetic material to isolate him and his family and destroy everything else because it could never work. So Noah builds a ship and the aliens somehow change atmospheric conditions to flood the entire valey in which this took place. After it has been done,
the selected animals and people were supose to inhabit earth.
So they multiply and build and build.
When they made the tower of Babilon, the aliens saw how clever humankind is becoming, and decided that he shall inhabit the whole earth and nothing shal be impossible for him to build and make, so as it is in the Bible, the aliens take people and transport them on all sides of earth to build a new world. In the meantime, Mars is destroyed (10000 years ago as some scientists say), so our gods move to other artifitial environments in space, or our moon.
The rest is pretty much history..
well there are miracles of exodus, a bit more artifitial sellection in the struggles between Egipt and Jews etc.

Then god knows how many years later, even though the society has survived there is still a lot violence going on, but the new generation of Noah is nothing like the negeration of Adam (his generation was like pure savages) and can be repaired so they don't have to go and start all over again.
So they annaunce that they are going to send a saviour who is supose to show them how to live.
And one day they take Mary as they take today's wimen, and make a superintelligent and advanced hybrid and put it inside of her.
The angel Gabriel was it with his little ambulance sawser (or cigar..whatever)

then Jesus comes into this world, he knows a lot of spiritual ways by himself due to his advanced brain, but he does not know his agenda untill he goes into the desert and meet with his fathers. They explain everything to him and he is ready etc etc...

And today they are still "adjusting" us. the kidnaping, tampering with genetic material etc. Injecting little modified babies as viruses to "contaminate" the global genepool in the long run.

so what do you think about this?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineCaptainJailew
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3778446 - 02/14/05 01:38 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think it is just as credible as believing in a God, but it requires much much much more faith and a complete lack of logical thought. Why would the aliens flood the earth? I am sure it would be much more efficient to just wipe out the planet and re-start from scratch. If they can create new species from scratch I think creating a weapon which selectively kills certain species would not be a problem. Why wouldn't Jesus tell people the truth instead of giving what could now be understood (if your hypothesis is right) as evasive or purposefully vague answers.

While this could be true, I think it is beyond the suggestible realm of possibility so that I can, in my mind, dismiss it as a non-possibility.


--------------------
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein



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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #3778531 - 02/14/05 01:58 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

In this scenario, neither the old "god" nor Jesus lied to the people.

And as for flood. well, if there was an aread of the size of Europe filled with all kinds of creatures, it would not be possible to destroy them all exept for some catastrophe.

and if I had to put those aliens on the advencement scale at that time, I'd put them about 100 years from the time we are now.
In the old books of Veda and old testaments, god made a lot of noise and smoke. We make a lot of smoke and noise when we are lifing up a shuttle too.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineCaptainJailew
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3779095 - 02/14/05 05:20 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I just don't think it is very tangible that in order to wipe out all life on one continent the aliens bring out the old Weather-Control-Machine 2090 v2.0 and tell some guy to build a big-ass boat instead of just killing them all and truly starting from scratch.

Creating a flood really would not be the best way to depopulate an area OR to make sure there is still an arable or acceptable area to settle later. Assuming these aliens have some concept of efficiency and goals, they will know that creating a massive deluge would not be the best way to wipe out people. If they had the biotechnical ability to construct and sequence a working DNA structure as complex as the human being then they MUST have the ability to selectively destroy them as well.

Even now scientists are toying with the idea of ethnic-weapons and their possibilities to only destroy certain ethnic groups based upon genetic differences. If the aliens are 100 years ahead of us then they certainly would know how to do these things.

Also- I am not sure about this concept of a noisy and smoky god, if you could provide some links or something I would like to read this. If Aliens did land on earth and seed the human race and influence religion then I think there would be more in the bible about it, about these gods, why was there only one or a concept of a single god versus multiple ones. Were the false gods other alien races? Was Satan the evil twin of the original alien who seeded the race? I just don't see how much of it fits although it makes for an interesting thought experiment.


--------------------
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein



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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #3779380 - 02/14/05 06:08 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Ok, here are some contrete examples...

When Moses went to the hill to meet with god, there was some kind of
protection around the mointain the prevented anyone to come near it, everyone would die exept moses. The peak of the mountain was filled with smoke, or a dark cloud. That could of smoke came down from heacens and "landed" on the peak of the mountain.

Then Veda books. The semigods we comming down from sky in golden fortresses that floated above ground and could devasate the trees below them. It is reported there that those fortresses came down with huge thunder and noise.
it is allso reported that there were wars between people in the east, and different people have different gods as allies. Those gods used to throw lightings from the flying fortresses and kill the enemy.
It is allso reported that some gods had some very strong weapon that
would release some kind of dealy breath that would contaminate all plants, food, kill some animals and kill unborn children in the innits of mothers. (this is a pretty close description of ratiation)

It is allso reported in the Jewish torah
that the case where ten commandments were placed was very dangerous, and anyone who touched it would die instantly. There was an instance where an accident happened, i can't remember what exactly happened, but one of the people touched it accidentaly and was killed instantly. High voltage perhapse?

Then you mention one god vs. many gods. I'll say again than it genesis there is not one god, but gods in plural and they say
"they has become like us" Elohim is the plural of Eloah.
even Jesus used plural on the cross. He said Eloi, which is a short version of Elohim, not Eloah

Aborigins used to draw charts of the solar system. They placed a boomerang between earth and mars. In the light of all this, it could be an indication of some connection between the two planets.

here are some general indications..

Most religions of the world have this idea that gods live in the sky,
and they always come from the sky down. Even modern christians retained this habit of showing up with their finger when talking of god.
There have been numerous religious paintings showing flying objects.
They do not prove anything directly, but could be the indication that medival religion connected UFO sightings with religion on some unknown basis.

In general, there is a connection between hills and mountains in which the holy Mary has shown herself, and UFO sightings of that area. You might say that there is a positive correlation between the two.

I know that all this proves nothing. But I believe that there i more than enough material to fuel such a view on the history of religion.
Not to mention that modern science would not have any problem explaining the details of such a scenario.
And i find it more realistic that the idea of a god spirit landing on top of a mountain and giving 10 commandments to humans.
Or the idea of a god walking in a garden.

p.s. I did not mean that they sequenced a human from scratch, but rather worked on some existing sequence, just like we can do today.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleCosm
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3779689 - 02/14/05 07:17 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Not to mention that modern science would not have any problem explaining the details of such a scenario.

I agree

p.s. I did not mean that they sequenced a human from scratch, but rather worked on some existing sequence, just like we can do today.

I recently came under the impression about a year ago that Adam and Eve already existed before they came to Earth,but may have been created by God originally. That they come from a warlike race,immortal, and that they travel through the universe creating offspring on other planets.This is Gods will for them or was they may be dead now.


Edited by Cosm (02/14/05 07:26 PM)


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OfflineCaptainJailew
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: Cosm]
    #3779747 - 02/14/05 07:27 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

It just seems like a far cry and deviation from common conceptions of religion, it just seems like there would be some remnants of information or something more than just the fact that christians reference god as being "in the sky."

I do not mean to condemn the possibility of ET life, as I think there is a mathematical probability of their existence, and I do not even doubt their possible presence in biblical times. All I doubt is the idea that they created or somehow gave birth to the human race and now refuse to come back and talk or communicate in some way or order.


--------------------
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein



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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: Cosm]
    #3779755 - 02/14/05 07:29 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

But how does this fit into the aincient texts? It is clear there that they were both made by gods and were ignorant and peacefull at first untill they did something or something happened to them.
And as for immortality, yea, that's interesting, all those people from genesis are over 600 years old, some are over 900.
So if we came from the Noah genepool, why do we live so short?
Was their idea to let us come to longevity on our own without their help? That would fit into that part where god saw that nothing could be impossible to man.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #3779772 - 02/14/05 07:33 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

well, who sais they are not going to contact us.
If jesus was their last contact, it has been only 2000 years since.
That is like 2 or 3 their generations if they are as long living as Adam and early halfbreeds.
So the grandson of the pilot of Jesus's ride home would be alive now


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineCaptainJailew
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3779881 - 02/14/05 07:51 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Decreased lifespans for humans can be attributed to the fact that Noah and the seed of people from back then had their bodies closest to a state of natural perfection. Adam and Eve's cells were made to regenerate for eternity, until their choice threw them into a world of mortality. As generations continued natural variances and degradation of our cell structure has resulted in a lower natural life-span for human beings.

Additionally, even if you are correct, humans still came from Noah's gene pool in your scenario, because the aliens used the weather machine to flood the earth and then took Noah's descendants out across the earth.

Why did Jesus have to die on a cross, did he not really die? Can aliens revive people? Is that how he saved Job? I guess this is all a possibility but I really have no more evidence to support alien's existence than to prove god's existence - and god's existence seems a tad easier to believe.

Why would aliens choose such an inefficient way to start a civilization? For what purpose?


--------------------
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein



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InvisibleCosm
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3779882 - 02/14/05 07:51 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

that's interesting, all those people from genesis are over 600 years old, some are over 900.

its when they ate the fruit that they started to die.I have so much to contribute to this but i dont have my journal with me at the moment.Later this week ill be going to my other home and i can retrieve my journal and would be happy to contribute.some of it doesn't make sense but i think that it could be true.its rather mind blowing some of it is.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #3779955 - 02/14/05 08:05 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Why did he had to die? I don't know, to get more publicity?
I don't know. But he didn't really die, did he? In the bible he was risen from the dead, not as a spirit, but in flesh. And this flesh
departed into heavens? So if he was the son of god instead of the son of aliens, what did he do up there? I mean he went in flesh into the clouds, wo did he dissapear there or what?

i'd put my bets on aliens ability of "bioenergy", cellular regeneration etc than technology, because Jesus cured people and revived them without any gadgets and without any strange lights above their houses.
Which reminds me, there was a star right above the place where he was born. A patrol making sure the baby is safe?

Inefficient way to start a civilisation? Well, we are no more
efficient in our genetic modification of food (we still don't know the long term concequences).It's a tricky bussiness.

Why? Well I don't know. "god" works in misterious ways :smile:


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: Cosm]
    #3779966 - 02/14/05 08:07 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I guess the real question then is what was this fruit they ate.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineCaptainJailew
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3779987 - 02/14/05 08:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well, if you are right and aliens seeded us then the entire bible and story of Adam and Eve could be concocted, in fact, the history of the world could be made up and everyone alive today was simply grown to this size and implanted with memories of the past, part of the memories are our ideas of religion. So no World Wars ever happened, there was no Vietnam, but everyon who claimed to be there are simply remembering past events in implanted memories that the aliens made for us.

Maybe life is like dark city and they just let us go for a while then switch us up again, just for kicks.

Anything is possible.


--------------------
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein



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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #3780030 - 02/14/05 08:23 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yes it's possible, but that has little to do with this concept we are discussing.

this concept is not originally my idea, I did got to it in my head without influence, but the original idea led me to other peoples research and theories and I discovered that I'm not the only one who
has this idea. There has been a lot of research done to it by scientists from different areas, mostly archeology, and there are a lot of books to read on this topic.

I guess the theory arrised from the similarity of aincient texts, drawings and dogmas and modern extraterrestrial encounters and our own scientific progress.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3780161 - 02/14/05 08:52 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

aliens = angels/demons?

possibly...

in the bible, angels/demons are beings not from earth, and not only beings, but intelligent beings...so i guess that would make them "aliens", but are these the same aliens that are abducting/anal probing us today? well, I HIGHLY doubt that, from scripture, it does'nt sound like the nature of angels/demons to be doing the kind of things I heard attributed to aliens.

I do believe angels do God's work, they serve him, protect us if God calls them to, bring us messages from God (not lately anyways, think old testement now).

UFO's on the other hand, they could be, just having a look at earth for what ever reason, there own enjoyment possibly? doing work of some kind? I have no idea, I have never seen a UFO myself, maybe there all hoaxes, it does'nt really matter to me much.

as for as you're idea OldWoodSpecter, if you're gonna believe in God, creator of all things, why believe aliens created us? who created the aliens? other aliens? and who created those aliens? God? God creating us from dirt without the help of his helpers is good enough for me.

it was a good read however, I smell an NBC many series... :grin: :thumbup:

peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: JCoke]
    #3780185 - 02/14/05 08:58 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

those anal probings serve the same purpuse as putting adam to sleep and taking his rib out: to better our species

and as for the real god, well even Jesus spoke of some god that you can pray to and find him under every rock, that sure doesn't fit the description of his father, the walking talking god.
So this concept does not negate conventional spiritualiy, it just redefines our teachers


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineCaptainJailew
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3780450 - 02/14/05 10:13 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I don't know, I can find myself believing in the existence of ET, and even of their visits in early human history changing the course of history and leaving remnants and clues (pyramids, Easter islands, Stonehenge) but I do not think that they were the ones to spawn the race. All of your evidence is just a re-interpretation of the bible to things that may be possible, perhaps if aliens did visit they were mistaken for gods, but that does not negate the possibility or existence of an actual god.

Jesus' sayings just meant that God is everywhere, and just because it may be beyond our comprehension to imagine a God that can take many forms and mean many things it doesn't mean it isn't possible. God walked around Eden because it suited the situation, God is ever-existing and ever-permeable, and even its association with a person-form or being may be underestimating what it fully encompasses. So I don't think your point is an inconsistency at all.


--------------------
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein



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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #3780518 - 02/14/05 10:28 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

*Meant to reply to oldwoodspectre!  :blush:

I'm sorry to say I dont like it.  Your theory that is.

Its interesting and something I've often considered but the problem for me with associating E.T with the bible are:

1. I don't believe in the bible! (Its an old story that was changed by many people!  Every culture has them, hence all the different religions!  Imagine people looking back on our present day literature, in 10 thousand years, and taking all of it for fact!)
2. People take the view that you are somehow making E.T your modern Godlike figure of support.  I do not view E.T as a God.
3. I support the theory of evolution as it apears to be the most rational logic.


--------------------


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: extraterrestrials and the old testament... [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #3780536 - 02/14/05 10:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not bringing evidence here, because this is no something I expect people to really belive in, I just pointed it out as an alternative interpretation of (not just bible) all the religious texts.
It is a reinterpretation in light of new experiences and indications.
We can now only walk in the dark, but one day, science will cleare it all up one way or another.

The omnipotent and everywhere-existing god has created Adam and talks to him, and asks him questions. So then that would mean that god is asking himself questions and talking to himself. Why would all present god have to take a rib out of Adam, and why would he have to put him to sleep? I mean, the all present god is Adams rib and Adam and the garden and everything else. So to do anything he would just have to rearange himself and everything would be perfect.
How could the all present god not know that he would later be sorry for making humans, as he said? If his intention was to create a human in a certain way, how could he fail? And how could the all present god let a part of him ruin his own plans. Because the snake was as much the part of the universal god as the plants and Adam was.

All this would indicate that the god in the old testament was a separate entity that had to use force to change the surroundings.
This god was separate from Adam and had to communicate with him to influence him.

The same god took sides and killed egiptians. An all present omnipotent god would be in the essence of both Egyptians and Jews.

How can the all present god make aliances with people, and on a hill?
Aren't the a part of him? Do they really need more than a single thought to be in alliance?

If this omnipotent god wanted them to obey the rules, why didn't he just make them such that they would live by these rules?

This god thinks like a human, acts like a human, mistakes like a human, moves like a human, uses "miracles" for which we will soon have technology for.

This is not an atheistic point of view. I'm just saying that we have mixed two different gods into one. One of those gods is them (aliens), and the other one is the real god that is in everything, that the aliens were teaching us about.

Like I said in the previous post. Non of this diminishes the possibility of the existence of a real god. On the contrary, if an advanced alien race was teaching us that we can have afterlife and that there is some universal god, that would give all those teachings extra credibility.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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