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Remove Swami's Ban
    #3489534 -

well S@P look what this place has become, so much for free speech. if it has come to this lets ban everybody that has a veiw on any topic.
please post comments or anything of the likes to help remove swami's ban.

its just wrong to ban somebody for being themself, for those people that don't like it, don't react to it. isn't it easier to ignore rather than posting?


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

Edited by spudamore (12/13/04 03:13 AM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3489538 -

hes banned? for what?


--------------------
how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3489545 -

I was pretty apalled at the lack of leniency shown in Swami's Christmas BananaNutBread thread being locked - that was cold, and really changed the way I look at the mods - regardless of what rules they shield themselves with. [I have other threads in mind that should've been locked, based on that such narrow lines of reasoning]


Merry Christmas!


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: wrestler_az]
    #3489547 -

for being himself.. neah i really don't know, politics in behind the scences of [Email]S@P!!![/Email]
how much crazyness is that?

this isn't the place i orginally thought it was


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

Edited by spudamore (12/13/04 03:14 AM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3489553 -

I hope he's unbanned soon. Last time he took an extended leave of absense, S&P fell into the Dark Ages, with superstition and logical fallacies running amok. He keeps this forum both sane and interesting.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: silversoul7]
    #3489557 -

silversoul7 said:
I hope he's unbanned soon.  Last time he took an extended leave of absense, S&P fell into the Dark Ages, with superstition and logical fallacies running amok.  He keeps this forum both sane and interesting.

:thumbup:


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: blink]
    #3489578 -

with superstition and logical fallacies running amok.

that doesn't really matter beacuse people will always beleive what they want. its just wrong to ban somebody that speaks their mind.


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3489598 -

THIS SUCKS!

Five years and 10,000 thought-provoking posts and this is what happens.

THIS SUCKS!

To whoever helped cause this by complaining to the mods in secrecy rather than in the light of truth in public, I say to you: COWARD! You don't deserve S&P! You have my contempt!


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3489603 -

To whoever helped cause this by complaining to the mods in secrecy rather than in the light of truth in public, I say to you: COWARDS! You don't deserve S&P!

:thumbup:


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: blink]
    #3489609 -

blinkidiot said:
silversoul7 said:
I hope he's unbanned soon.  Last time he took an extended leave of absense, S&P fell into the Dark Ages, with superstition and logical fallacies running amok.  He keeps this forum both sane and interesting.

:thumbup:



--------------------
how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: silversoul7]
    #3489624 -

I hope he's unbanned soon.

From private communication, I gather that the ban is permanent.  :mad2:

Edit:

Correction: apparently it's just few days.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (12/13/04 07:13 AM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3489627 -

Diploid said:
I hope he's unbanned soon.

From private communication, I gather that the ban is permanent.  :mad2:


i think you should check your sources again :wink:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: kaiowas]
    #3489634 -

so whats going to happen then?


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3489661 -

well from what I gather it's one day. this was after a warning was sent from whichever mod sent it. if you have issues with the mods you should really send this over to the Websites Announcements and Feedback forum.

btw, just for a reminder for some guidelines while posting.

1)No Flaming
2)No Baiting
3)Be Respectful
4)Come with an open mind
5)This isn't OTD...keep posts on topic where possible. Off-topic posts will be removed at the mods' discretion.

if a mod banned swami, it is because they felt he has been purposely breaking one or more of these rules on a consistent basis. this goes beyond just sharing ideas. there's has to be some respect that goes along with the opinion


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: kaiowas]
    #3489678 -

swamis keeps this forum in check. sometimes the rules need a little bending. its for the greater good


--------------------
how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: kaiowas]
    #3489686 -

everybody breaks those rules, i have done it numerous times so have a numerous of other people too.
if its been consistently done why do those people still react to it?
differences is what makes this community what it is. if we can't come to an understanding of differences maybe this community shouldn't be.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

Edited by spudamore (12/13/04 05:11 AM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3489781 -

ban swami?? thats crazy talk

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: deep_umbra]
    #3489805 -

Cool avatar!


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3489817 -

WHAT? Swami is banned?

Who is the smart ass moderator responsible?

I'm gonna take this to high commission, im gonna follow the lead until the band os OFF. You HEar me, OFF I TELL YOU.

Swami might have his limits, but he is a PART of us and we need him just as much as everyone else.


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
Shroomery MSN club
I'm talking to aliens!
Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras
Hilary Duff!!
:gethigh:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Jalruza]
    #3489823 -

we don't need him.
but he has the right to be here just like everybody else!!!


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3489833 -

swami is an important and irreverent aspect to this place.
there is a bit of yin in every yang and vice versa
also he represents the human condition of samsara with a kind of religious fervor.
there should not be a ban on sharing one's voice especially amidst suffering and alienation.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3489841 -

:thumbup:


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3489846 -

Well I just rolled out of bed and need to get ready for work, but I'll try to post our reasons for banning Swami sometime this morning.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3489861 -

Look, the only thing he should do is obbey they rules & show respect to other (which he sometimes forgets).

I still dont know why hes banned, but in the past mods have been acting very macho and taking things personally.

It doesnt matter if the mod doesnt like him personally, if he follows the basic rules he should be let post whatever he desires.


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
Shroomery MSN club
I'm talking to aliens!
Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras
Hilary Duff!!
:gethigh:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3489889 -

The LORD hath banned him!! :lol:


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3489916 -

meh, if it's only one day, then what's all the hubub about?

some people take this website a little too seriously :P


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: blink]
    #3489939 -

tell that to the people that complain too.


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3489982 -

of course he has every right to be here just like everyone else, but respect towards fellow members is also included. he's been here for five years he really should know better.

again, its not just because he voices his opinion, but how he chooses to do so.  he's smart enough and has great linguistic skills to figure out how to say what he needs to say. 

i really don't see any of us acting "macho"  I rarely do a thing as does trendal shroomism or maia.  I think we are pretty liberal about things here.


ewok...who said about taking anything personal?  :confused:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3489993 -

Guys, it's just for a day. I for one trust trendal's judgement, and will give him the benefit of the doubt before I hear his explanation for the banning. I appreciate Swami's presence here as much as anyone, but a 24-hour ban isn't that bad.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: silversoul7]
    #3489997 -

yeah i know, at 1st what i heard was like chinese whispers, but the thing is that people have broken those rules many times, over and over again but why no warnings for them?


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: silversoul7]
    #3490022 -

Actually, it's for 15 days. I'm at work now, and am finishing up a post where I will explain our reasoning behind banning Swami.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3490025 -

spudamore said:
yeah i know, at 1st what i heard was like chinese whispers, but the thing is that people have broken those rules many times, over and over again but why no warnings for them?


If you got busted would you complain to the judge that everyone else didn't get busted?

Swami will be back in a day, and we can all take the opportunity to learn a lesson in courtesy and respect.

No big deal people. :thumbup: :heart: :tongue: :laugh: :cool:


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3490031 -

for 15 days now.
and no.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3490038 -

spud...sometimes we don't catch them. a lot of it has to do with the amount of times one has broken the "rules".

really they aren't "rules" they are guidelines. its when a person purposely breaks these guidelines a lot over a small period of time that a couple of warnings get sent out, and then a ban. you don't see bans often because we are pretty liberal with them (I've yet to ban anyone).

other times spud warnings have been sent out, it just wasn't made public.

as always its on a case by case basis and we do our best to be fair IMHO.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490039 -

Well first off, Swami was not banned for the ideas or the viewpoint which he expressed in this forum. If that were the case, there would be a lot of others here ("skeptics", myself included) who would have to be banned. The funny thing is, I actually agree with Swami most of the time.

Swami was not banned for his viewpoint, he was banned for how he expressed his viewpoint. There are many others here who express the same general viewpoint, that of a skeptic, but who do so with much more tact and eloquence. Also know that this decision was not made in a vacuume. It was discussed among not only us S&P mods, but among the Admin and rest of the moderator staff. The final decision, after I spoke to Swami via PM, was to ban him for 15 days. At the end of this time he can return and, if he wishes to stay, change his posting style. Again, this is not about free-speech. There are MANY other people here who express the same general ideas as Swami.

Spirituality is an incredibly personal topic for most people. In the end, it is something we must all approach on our own, and only after we begin to come to a true understanding of our own spirituality can we begin to approach that of others. Because of this we all tend to have our own way of expressing, in words, what spirituality means to us. This leads to miscommunications quite often, which isn't a problem provided the two parties can either come together and discuss their ideas, or leave them unsaid (agreeing to disagree). There is no room for petty name-calling in these discussions, yet this is what Swami has reduced himself to.

Instead of proving his own viewpoint, Swami only tried to knock down others (not necessarily bad) and do so by insulting them or making them feel stupid (necessarily bad). The path to learning is not through insult and slight. People, in general, do not listen to what you say when you say when you say it with obvious intent to anger, hurt, or insult. Swami liked to use the excuse that he couldn't be held accountible for the way others interpreted his words. It's a weak excuse, and when I called him on it, in public, last week he became quite silent. Of course Swami knew how his words COULD be interpreted. Swami is not an idiot. In fact, he is quite intelligent. He knows the English language quite well. He knows how to use it quite well, which means he would have SOME idea of how his words/wording could be interpreted. When I confronted him on this, in private, he didn't deny it. What it comes down to is that Swami knew his words were hurtful/hateful, and chose to continue posting that way. He is now paying the consequences for that action. He knew what those consequences were, long ago, because he has been warned about his posting on more than one occaision by more than one moderator.

I do not think we are limiting free-speech in this forum by banning Swami. On the contrary, I think that by having Swami here and posting as he has been we have alowed free-speech to be stifled. It is not a crime to make a mistake, and certainly not a crime to make a mistake in a post. By making people feel stupid and insulting them for the mistakes they may make in their posts/ideas, Swami was working towards having people just not post their ideas for fear that they will be torn apart by Swami. This is not acceptible.

Please keep any feedback about this decision in THIS thread only. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490053 -

The path to learning is not through insult and slight. People, in general, do not listen to what you say when you say when you say it with obvious intent to anger, hurt, or insult.

but that is apart of the path of learning. its going to happen through all of life wether we like it or not, you can either turn to a deaf ear or take it personally. its about making a choice between the 2.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3490069 -

spudamore said:
for 15 days now.
and no.


OIC. I'll reserve further comment until the real facts come out then.  :laugh:


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490096 -

Trendal, you know what I see happening here? I see a personal issue between you and Swami and not one valid reason for an admonition, let alone a banning. Your long post justifying this ban makes no sense to me.

if he wishes to stay, change his posting style

This is a forum for philosophical discussion. Ad hominems aside, which Swami has never used to my knowledge, please tell me what posting style has to do with philosophical discussion?

making them feel stupid

If someone posts something stupid and someone else calls them on it, WHY IS THAT BAD??? Seems to me a natural filter for stupidity; the next time the poor stupid person is going to post, they'll double check their facts and their logic lest they be rendered stupid once again with a logical refutation of their post. It works great on me! WHY IS THIS BAD???

Swami knew how his words COULD be interpreted

Geezzus! So am I now supposed to self-censor my logic just in case it COULD hurt some pussy's feelings. Gawd, what's next, a censor board to screen all our posts? Maybe they can rate them G, R, PG so the delicate audience will not be offended.

people just not post their ideas for fear that they will be torn apart

Can you take a step back and look at what you're saying for a minute. You are being absurd. You're saying that Swami should not tear apart someone's logic when that logic is susceptible to logical attack.

WTF is a philosophy forum for if not exactly that?  :mad2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3490097 -

It appears to be as I suspected, just a time-out to allow Swami time to reflect upon how he interacts and comes accross to others.

I see no harm in that.

I took my ban like a man, and learned from it, as I'm sure Swami will as well...

Now it's up to us to support the mods' rights to make decisions, even if you like Swami, (which I do incidentally), and keep the drama to a minimum.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3490110 -

but that is apart of the path of learning. its going to happen through all of life wether we like it or not, you can either turn to a deaf ear or take it personally. its about making a choice between the 2.

Yes, I do agree for the most part. However that doesn't justify making the insults in the first place. Personally I think all people should learn how to ignore insults and not become angry when someone shoots anger at you...however, again, that does not in any way justify the act of tossing out insults.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490117 -

However that doesn't justify making the insults in the first place.

in your understanding it isn't justified? a person could justify such insults.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490126 -

making the insults

Trendal,

An insult *MUST*, by definition, also be an ad hominem, no?

Please provide a link to a post where Swami uses an ad hominem.

Considering that he's posted enough to justify a 15-day ban, finding one should be easy.

If you can't find one...


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3490129 -

Trendal, you know what I see happening here? I see a personal issue between you and Swami and not one valid reason for an admonition, let alone a banning. Your long post justifying this ban makes no sense to me.

As I stated in my post, this is not my decision alone to make. The S&P staff discussed our options, then brought our opinion to the administration for consideration. We got input from many other moderators from other forums. The final decision was to hand out a 15 day ban.

This is a forum for philosophical discussion. Ad hominems aside, which Swami has never used to my knowledge, please tell me what posting style has to do with philosophical discussion?

I already explained how posting style affects others. This isn't a blog for one person to type whatever they feel like, it is a community forum where, as in real life, your words and actions DO affect those around you. All I ask is that you have some respect and common courtesy for your fellow members.

Can you take a step back and look at what you're saying for a minute. You are being absurd. You're saying that Swami should not tear apart someone's logic when that logic is susceptible to logical attack.

Actually no, that's not what I am saying at all. There is nothing wrong with picking apart someone's idea, however I don't see how insults (however well veiled) lend ANY credit to your opinion. Calling someone a fool or an idiot is not picking apart their IDEA, it is picking THEM apart. We will not accept that in this forum anymore.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490138 -

all honourable
fine
good explanation
(I remember when Chretien defended himself in the crowd, not too dissimilar)


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490141 -

well swami if you are out there reading, good "luck" for the mean time.
:laugh:

remember idle hands are the devils playground.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3490151 -

I feel we deserve some examples of Swami's words that were intepreted as over the limits for the moderators and administrators here, so that we as a community can specifically observe them and find our own interpretations of what was said.

We are a community, and Swami is obviously an integral part of this community. To remove him from this community is a very harsh thing to do, for all of us, unless he truly, consistently, stepped over the line. Very rarely have I seen him do this, and having missed the final straw, I feel a right to be informed.

Perhaps we should review Swami's character and the service he has provided to countless people here. He's obviously helped a very numerous amount of people in their own spiritual and intellectual growth, and an integral lesson in that is A.) Not acting or thinking out of emotion, and B.) Not letting critisism of one's beliefs be adversely effected by others, if those beliefs are rightfully held.

You are insane if you think this is merely a place of debate of spiritual ideas - this is an involved community involved with the direct spiritual growth of everyone participating. To remove aspects of Swami's character that a large amount of people here will testify as serving a valuable purpose and service is to greatly stunt the spiritual growth of others posting here.

I have not personally seen Swami descend to ignornant name-calling and belittlement, such as "Fuck you, you retard!", "Shut the hell up", or etc.. Aren't those the unnecessary nuances that do not allow for stimulating conversation to sprout from that are prohibited by the rules of this forum?

It seems as though certain people here that are not emotionally evolved enough are the only ones who have a problem with Swami and his words, mostly because it is them who are being spiritually challenged by Swami himself. As Swami offers very little hindrance to discussion here, and as his challenges actually provoke more stimulating debate that increases the understanding of those involved here, it is a complete shock and an inexpressible outrage to see him banned for fifteen days. :shocked:

I demand specific examples of where Swami stepped over the line, and I want to hear the opinions of everyone involved in this community. If anything, it is the moderators that are preventing the flow of spiritual conversation here by unnecessarily banning Swami, whether from Swami's lack of presence here, or the more notable controversy that will inevitably mulitply in this forum and consume it.

Of course, you could always use your authority and delete and prohibt any discussion on the matter... I mean, control always does work for the best, right?  :rolleyes:

Oh, and as a form of nonviolent protest, I hereby refrain from posting in this forum for the remainder of Swami's unnecessary and foolish ban, excluding posting involving this specfic issue.  :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3490160 -

Agreed. Let's see the evidence. NO excuses.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490171 -

Calling someone a fool or an idiot is not picking apart their IDEA, it is picking THEM apart.

Alright Tren, BS is BS, and I'm calling you on it.

I just used the Search function to look for all posts in S&P by Swami in the last year that contained either the word FOOL or IDIOT.

You know what I got back?

1. A handful of posts in which Swami used those words self-effacingly (i.e. referring to himself, not anyone else) in an attempt at humor.

2. A few more times where he used the words by way of quoting someone else's post to frame his context.

3. Once to refer to Scott Peterson who, last time I checked, does not post here and so could not have been offended by the post.

Now, what?  :thumbdown:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (12/13/04 02:33 PM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3490179 -

Posts such as:

"you honestly aren't worth debating with. You seem unable to stay on track and avoid personalisms"

are what I'm talking about. I'm at work right now (I also manage to hold up a full-time job, aside from moderating this forum) and so I don't have time to search for more right now.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490188 -

trendal said:
What it comes down to is that Swami knew his words were hurtful/hateful



Exactly HE KNOWS. it seems to me there are two Swamies here. Good Swami and nasty Swami. The good Swami posted several times a quote that a real man is true to himself. Yet nasty Swami does exactly the opposite and trys to humiliate good Swami and others.
Whats important is that he REALISES his 'fault'. I belive he secretly suspects it to be the case but doesn not want to discuss it not only in public but even with himself.
Good Swami must have a chat with nasty Swami and tell him to sod off.



trendal said:
Swami was working towards having people just not post their ideas for fear that they will be torn apart by Swami. This is not acceptible.



We are getting to the bottom of this. He is at war with himself. Real man is true to him self first of all. So start doing so.
Swamster, its not the question wehther miracles can happen. Its That YOU DONT WANT THEM TO HAPPEN. You deny any possibility for something 'spiritual' to happen. And nasty Swami feels that persuading others and adopting his white and black point of view is what others should do.

Anyway :smile:
Nasty Swami is cracking  :crazy2:
He knows that even tho he wont admit to himself.


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
Shroomery MSN club
I'm talking to aliens!
Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras
Hilary Duff!!
:gethigh:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Jalruza]
    #3490199 -

by the way, the reason he feels he has to use insulting technicues to overpower other is once again - because he's cracking.

What we all should do is take it easy. Swami when comes back, he should at least learn to RESPECT others. We're not asking him to belive in aliens now. Not yet anyway. We're all friends, so lets start acting that way.

And i belive 15 days is a childish thing to do. give him a couple of days, anything more not going to make any difference.


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
Shroomery MSN club
I'm talking to aliens!
Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras
Hilary Duff!!
:gethigh:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Jalruza]
    #3490219 -

Ewok said:
[Whats important is that he REALISES his 'fault'. I belive he secretly suspects it to be the case but doesn not want to discuss it not only in public but even with himself.
Good Swami must have a chat with nasty Swami and tell him to sod off.


Yes, I am sure that the person known as Swami is schizophrenic.  :rolleyes:

:lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490225 -

"you honestly aren't worth debating with. You seem unable to stay on track and avoid personalisms"

Yeah, I figured you'd dig that one up.

Here's the direct link for those of you with the objectivity to follow up for yourself:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3464173/an//page//vc/1

Now, let's see...

jiggy posts two links to con-artists' web sites selling plans for a perpetual energy machine for $150, and she ends the opening post with:

"What do ya think?"

Swami makes a few observations, expresses what he thinks of these con-artists, then asks jiggy some salient questions.

jiggy replies with a rant and then this:

"Are you even personally interested in this stuff or are you just bored and nit picking for fun?"

which has nothing to do with the questions or points in Swami's reply and is in no way relevant to the topic at hand.

then this:

"Are you upset because I posted that link on the second law of thermodynamics being broken"

making a personal observation about Swami which is AGAIN irrelevant to the topic at hand.

and then this:

"Big deal-no harm no foul. So you didn't know something."

and AGAIN nothing to do with the topic at hand.

then this:

"Free energy technology is such an exciting topic. What scares you about it swami?"

YET AGAIN personal shit with nothing to do with the topic at hand.

and then this:

"I suppose you would rather discuss archaic religious superstition here."

All this in ONE POST from jiggy to Swami.

In another post in the same thread jiggy says:

Geeeeeez, some of you would follow swami right off a cliff wouldn't you? LOL

It wouldn't even matter if he said that it was good manors to let you all go first. He'd be up there waving down saying bye bye, after all fools die just as quickly as they are born eh?

There is lots more, but I think I've made my point that when Swami finally said:

"you honestly aren't worth debating with. You seem unable to stay on track and avoid personalisms"

I'd call it a statement of fact based on the evidence just made available by jiggy herself, and even stretching my imagination I cannot see how this is even an admonishable offence, let alone justification for a 15 day ban.

Now what?  :mad2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (12/13/04 09:22 AM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3490264 -

Diploid, take it easy dude, i think many S&P members need to get out more, spend far too much time here.


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
Shroomery MSN club
I'm talking to aliens!
Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras
Hilary Duff!!
:gethigh:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3490380 -

I'll ban myself out of solidarity.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3490524 -

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Don't anyone think I went to the mods. They can tell you I didn't. I have fun with swami. I have grown to understand and appreciate him over time. I was shocked when I heard he was banned.

I beleive if someone is really truly angered or offended by someone here, they should take up there personal problems with them in P.M.

I know fucknuckle thought swami was coming down on him and invited him to chat in PMs and fucknuckle posted that swami refused the invite. What was fucknuckle to do?

I was coming on a little hard with FN myself  until I realised it and then chose to understand him better and backed off.

Diploid, if you have a problem with what I wrote to swami why don't you suggest that I get banned.

I like the role swami plays here overall, ya sometimes he pushes it and so do I but stuff between he and I we are okay with.

For the record, swami and I do get along in our own warped way.

If any of you mods banned him because of that thread, just know, I completely don't feel it was necessary and know it wasn't even wanted by me. If I slip and post stuff here I should know will come under attack, thats my bad. There are plenty of message boards I can discuss other stuff at and still stay here within the confines of whatever flies.

Diploid, that post wasn't put up because I thought people should by the plans. I wanted to discuss free energy technology and general and pt it up as a luanching pad. I didn't know plans were sold on that one. You or swami still couldn't provide proof that the plans do not produce the results they say they will.


I don't know and I don't care because it wasn't about THAT particular invention as much as it was about the inovative minds and ideas out there looking to make free energy technology the wa of the future.

Perhaps, others realised that that is all that post was about and would've enjoyed the discussion had it not been derailed by swami telling me he thinks I like to beleive in magic after I asked what do people think of the site.

He came back and told me what he thought of ME. How did you miss that diploid? However, I don't care. Swami knows I know he thinks I'm a goofy person and we laugh about it in private.

I repeat, I did not go to the mods nor do I feel he deserved a ban over it. Sure, I got personal in that thread and like tren said, he started by telling me what he personal thinks of me and started correcting my use of the phrase "magic shmagic".

I think he gets funny when he resorts to that stuff.

I could've ignored him in that thread and I didn't. It took the two of us to tango and you all know swami and I like to rumba and do the cha cha.

Just let it be known, I did NOT complain to the mods about him.

If I push swamis buttons to the point of getting him banned then maybe I should I leave because I am just as guilty of whatever he is of doing.

I'll ban myself for 15 days too.  :grin:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Edited by gettinjiggywithit (12/13/04 10:34 AM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3490552 -

ooops, I just caught a major typo I made. In my last for the record that I did not complain to the mods about him, I wrote did instead of didn't.

I did NOT. They can tell you that.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3490565 -

If any of you mods banned him because of that thread, just know, I completely don't feel it was necessary and know it wasn't even wanted by me.

No, jiggy, it was not that thread that got Swami banned. That was simply the easiest and most recent example I could pull out of memory.

Swami's ban is the result of nearly 5 years of posting. From what I understand, there have been issues with him since before I was a mod of this forum (or even a member of the site). I have spoken to Swami about his posting style on quite a few occaisions in the past. This was not a sudden decision.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490671 -

dude, that's the lamest thing I've read in awhile. you people are drunk with power. :thumbdown:
do you really think swami was contributing to a negative atmosphere here? give me a break trendal.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3490672 -

Poor call, mods.  :thumbdown:

It looks to me like if the decision wasn't personal, it was at least a large factor. I had already noticed in the last few weeks one of the S&P mods (who has posted in this thread) mixing it up with Swami much more than usual- actually seeking confrontation. Anyone can do a search and see that this is true.

As for Swami's posting style, I see nothing wrong with it. Sure, feathers get ruffled in a debate, but that's the nature of the beast.

There is a certain user here, let's call him "Great White Shark Man". He has been far worse than Swami in terms of aggressiveness, just blatantly throwing out the crudest insults, belittling people in the worst way..and yet nothing ever happened to him!  :confused:

Ridiculous.

I think the mod(s) who pushed for this ban should take 15 days off themselves, and once they have some emotional distance maybe they can be honest with themselves about why they made this poor call which disrespects our community.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490686 -


I already explained how posting style affects others. This isn't a blog for one person to type whatever they feel like, it is a community forum where, as in real life, your words and actions DO affect those around you. All I ask is that you have some respect and common courtesy for your fellow members.

Wow. Swami has been here for years, posting in the same manner since day 1. You honestly are now going to force him to change the way he posts because of his style ? LOL! This forum is run fine, without mod intervention. Last I checked, the biggest problem here was Mr.Mushrooms and his meddling. Leave it alone.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490687 -

So, trendal, did anyone actually complain, or are you just guessing a majority of people here wanted Swami to get banned?

Because from what I see in this thread, the epicenter of Swami's ban, I haven't seen anyone that agreed with it, except those who say "So what, its just a day"


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: zorbman]
    #3490699 -

who has posted in this thread

It's ok, zorbman, I'm not going to ban you for using my name :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: looner2]
    #3490716 -

Wow. Swami has been here for years, posting in the same manner since day 1. You honestly are now going to force him to change the way he posts because of his style ? LOL! This forum is run fine, without mod intervention.

Good point. If he has been doing this( whatever supposedly was against forum rules) for five years, why wait until now? Was his posting style acceptable until it was directed at someone with power here?

Last I checked, the biggest problem here was Mr.Mushrooms and his meddling

Cultivate personal relationships and you can get away with far more crap evidently. This is true in life, and I had hoped this forum was above that, but I guess it's just part of the human condition. Maybe someone can help us get past that.

Oh, I forgot. He was banned.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: oceansize]
    #3490731 -

I have had people complain about Swami via PM in the past, yes, and one recently (in the past week). I have had people PM just to say they will never post in the forum again, because of Swami. I have also had people PM and bitch at me for NOT removing Swami from the forum. I have not received a PM about any other member of this forum, past or present.

Its the curse of the mod: damned if you do, damned if you don't :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490738 -

I think you should ban everyone who posts in PAL as well, to be consistent.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Vvellum]
    #3490742 -

I am not a moderator in that forum, so you'll have to speak to pinky/baby_hitler or one of the PAL crew.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490748 -

It's ok, zorbman, I'm not going to ban you for using my name

Well then you re-earned a little of my respect, but I still think you made a poor call, dude. Yes, I know it wasn't you alone, but I know how politics works. One or two people in power spearhead the thing, and everyone else goes along to avoid rocking the boat. I'm sorry, but that's how I see it.

Anything I say now will just be a rehash of what I've already said, so I will just leave it there unless something new comes out.

Fireworks_god, I think you're on to something:

After today, I will not post here again for fifteen days in protest of this decision.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490749 -

I think you should. Honestly. I hope you do talk to BH & pinksharkmark.
I bet both of them would laugh at you for banning an PAL regular who debates like Swami (and there are many - moderators included).

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490770 -

Quote:
I have had people complain about Swami via PM in the past, yes, and one recently (in the past week). I have had people PM just to say they will never post in the forum again, because of Swami. I have also had people PM and bitch at me for NOT removing Swami from the forum. I have not received a PM about any other member of this forum, past or present.
Quote:
I bet you have immaculate proof that non of these complaints were due to Swami
refuting someone's beliefs (causing a post-traumatic bitching reaction)


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Vvellum]
    #3490817 -

I bet both of them would laugh at you for banning an PAL regular who debates like Swami (and there are many - moderators included).

Actually, they were two of the FIRST to agree with me and ask for Swami's ban :smirk:

Edit: my bad, I went back and checked. It was just BH who agreed that Swami should be banned.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Edited by trendal (12/13/04 11:54 AM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3490820 -

Diploid, if you have a problem with what I wrote to swami why don't you suggest that I get banned.

C'mon jiggy, you know me better than that. I don't want you banned; I don't want anyone banned. I just want people here to get over themselves and realize that this is a forum for vigorously scrutinizing beliefs. This has nothing to do with the person posting the belief.

Attacks on beliefs posted here should be ruthless. If those beliefs fail under that scrutiny, then they suck and the person holding them should reconsider them or think of a way to refute the attacking argument.

If a belief is true, it will come through the scrutiny untouched. If it is suspect or false, that too will become evident as the debate progresses.

Asking:

Free energy technology is such an exciting topic. What scares you about it swami?

does nothing to advance the debate. It doesn't refute any of Swami's statements, it doesn't provide evidence to contradict any of Swami's statements, and it doesn't lead toward any kind of final conclusion to the argument because it doesn't address the argument in any way.

This is not how philosophical debate works. It's how debate in The Pub works and it's also the reason I don't participate there.

You or swami still couldn't provide proof that the plans do not produce the results they say they will.

See, this is part of the problem, jiggy. You don't understand that in philosophical discussion, it is up to the person making the claim to provide evidence that it's true. It is not up to the skeptic to provide evidence that it's not true.

This fundamental lack of understanding of the rules of philosophical debate is a big part of source of the problem.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490883 -

I have had people complain about Swami via PM in the past, yes, and one recently (in the past week).

I have also had people PM and bitch at me for NOT removing Swami from the forum. I have not received a PM about any other member of this forum, past or present.

But not one of these cowards will post their complaint publicly. You wanna know why? Because they're full of shit and they know that their complaints will not stand up to the light of truth.

I have had people PM just to say they will never post in the forum again, because of Swami.

Good riddance! The Pub is where they belong anyway.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490917 -

Well, that's funny because PAL is full of posts that are at least equal to whatever cherry-picked posts you've dug up by Swami. To be consistent, the moderators wil have to ban a majority of PAL. I dont see BH doing that anytime soon; do you? Because of this, I do not put much stock into BH's supposed endorsement of your lame banning of Swami.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Vvellum]
    #3490942 -

The rules of PA&L differ from the rules of S&P.

The above statement is not to be construed as either agreement or disagreement with what has occurred in Swami's case, it is merely to point out the inappropriateness of conflating what is allowed in one forum with what is allowed in another.


pinky


--------------------

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3490947 -

This is a repeat post from another thread "Anger revisted"

I want to make sure that all of you read it

I was not going to address any of this but I see that it has turn into a great big monster

Brutal logic is not what hurt my feelings. I am way past that lesson. My feelings were hurt by Swami who called me "Brother" more than once in posts and in PM's. Then Swami said somethings to me in public posts that really told me what kind of man he is and what he is capable of and what he really feels. I will give Swami's post that put me past the point of feeling safe and part of a greater community.


SWAMI SAID
Maybe. Child molestors are FORCED to undergo therapy as a part of many programs. To get a lighter sentence or be up for parole, they must participate. In this case, the public confession may merely be a facade and revelatory of no change whatsoever.


Now this post he made within 24 hours of my public confession to growing up sexualy abused, The fact that I was busted with a feloney and let go early etc.... I also was in the middle of confessing and discussing my ping pong battle with God.


Anyway here is a few lines from a large post that I had made only the day before Swamis post.

FUCKNUCKLE SAID
" In fact I came from a very twisted home with abusive parents. I suffered poverty to the highest degree. I was forced into sexual acts with adults. I was forced into drugs at a very young age. I was put in a foster home twice."

"God forgave me and told me that I was not going to spend another day in Jail. Yeah right my bail was set at 75,0000 bucks. Not only did I not spend another day in jail. I never went back. The charges were lowered.etc...."


If you notice in the begining of my post I used the word FORCED a couple of times and this word was important to me while I wrote it.
And was important in Swami post as well. Now this could be debated until the sun comes up that I am reading far to much into this. But I am not. Swami is a master at this type of technique. He has a nasty habit of knowing that 90% of the people are not going to see what he is doing. But 90% of the people he insults and abuses see this because Swami has used this known tech. Swami takes pleasure in this and the fact that most of you seem to not see it or choose to ignore it makes this place no fun. To have Swami insult you anytime he feels like it and denie it because he has good skills is no excuse.

Swami was calling me a liar, a child molester and my confessions and my desire to get feedback as nothing more than fake and weak, with no merit. I'd say he was abusive and extremly insultive.

The truth is I was busted for Drugs and let go because of fouled paperwork, thank God. I went to bible college thru a church long after my law trouble and not some Jail program,Etc.............. I was a very abused Kid who has made a miracules recovery with God and turn his adult life into a life of service and much money. I have alot to give, teach and alot to learn.


I have been called a PUSSY indirectly several times in several threads this past 2 days. That does not bother me in any way. Also I did not ask any Mods to ban Swami. I asked whay he was contuined to be allowed to do this crap. As Trendal has said Swamis's ban was his doing not any one member.

So while Swami is a huge part of this forum he has also been a huge part of pain and judemental assumptions. I have been a closet reader of this forum for 2 years and only in the past 8 months have I started posting. I have not been part of the drama. I can tell you in my experience as a Outside reader Swami is very capable of being NASTY and Mean and finds great pleasure in it. IS this the type behaviour that you will accept ? If it is then maybe my choice to leave it is the right one. I can read from a distance again


I have said my peace and hope all of you grow from it and really try not to keep worshiping Swami and not keep calling the other half of Swami's problems Pussys cowards etc........... That is very child like.

Swami has a real issue to deal with. As do we all.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3490973 -

Good riddance!

As Swami would say...that does not appear to be a very spiritually mature statement. :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490985 -

Swami is the last person I expected to be banned. I find this hard to believe, but people are actually offended by him?

Apparently challenging people's beliefs can cause them to overreact and take the defensive, that's the only reason I can think of why anyone would complain about Swami.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3491080 -

I'm not suprised that people have PM'd you complain about him, or saying that they're never going to return, etc...

Those people are looking for something that S&P is not, and was never meant to be. S&P is not only a place for you to stand on a soap box and preach your ideas, it's a place where everyone can do so, even if they directly contradict the views of others.

Swami, by sheer chance, and perhaps prominance, has become kind of a figurehead for skepticism here, and when someone gets annoyed with skeptics, he's the first guy that comes to mind, and the first guy that gets complained about.

A lot of people here accuse him of being a bitter old crank, or someone who is on the verge of becoming spiritual, but is too weak willed or some other weirdness, and I don't think they have the slightest idea how goofy that sounds, or how far that is from the truth.

I think that a lot of people have genuinely not ever critically analyzed their beliefs, and when someone points out a problem with them, it feels like an attack on themselves.

With all the talk of insults, I've yet to see a single example of what he has done wrong. (Unless you count the quote earlier, which Diploid pointed out doesn't really count)


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phred]
    #3491189 -

How exactly are they that different to allow such radically different authoritative decision and action?

PAL:

Quote:
In general I like to keep the flow of information and ideas free in the political forum...but due to the nature of this forum there is bound to be some heated debate.
Here are 2 rules that I would like all of you to observe.

1) NO FLAMING ...if you can't state your case or refute someone elses case without calling them "stupid" or an "idiot"..etc...Then don't bother posting here. This forum is for intelligent debate, not to try to belittle someone that doesn't think like you. THIS WILL BE STRICTLY ENFORCED ... If you have been warned already, you will receive a temporary ban, if you continue to flame you will be banned permanently...choose your words wisely or suffer the consequences.

2) Although not always possible, when quoting a source please provide a link.

That's it..Basically I am looking to create a more tolerant atmosphere in here...it's not too much to ask. There are many different views and beliefs represented in this forum, more so than any other (with the possible exception of the S & P forum) and we need to be able to communicate our points of view clearly without resorting to petty name calling. We are better than that.



S&P:

Quote:
Welcome to the Spirituality and Philosophy forum!
A place where you may express your deepest thoughts within an open community of diverse individuals.
While you post in this forum we ask that you abide by a few simple rules in order to promote the general peace.

1)No Flaming
2)No Baiting
3)Be Respectful
4)Come with an open mind
5)This isn't OTD...keep posts on topic where possible. Off-topic posts will be removed at the mods' discretion.

If you are found to be breaking one of these rules, provoking, insulting, or otherwise disrupting the general harmony and the people of this forum to the discretion of those involved and the moderators.. you will be subject to warning, either public or PM, second time may result in a temporary ban, and third may result in permanent ban, depending on the severity of the scenario. Just think before you post and all will be good


Have a wonderful existence
Peace and Namaste



They basically say the same thing. The PAL bans, as you know, are of chronic flamers and puppets/trolls. Swami is hardly in these categories; he's a longtime cornerstone member who's supposed "offensive" posts are no worse than those that are so common in PAL. So what gives? Why the gross inconsistency?

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: adrug]
    #3491204 -

Well I've been around this site and this forum since their inception, and I have to say this is the most unwise mod decision I've yet seen. You guys. *shakes head*. Usually you guys get it right. I have never publicly criticized a mod decision before, and doing so makes me wince, but I have to lay down a marker. I hope I never have to see this again. I dearly love this forum, but if we lose such a valuable member as Swami what is this place coming to? You have no idea how much I hate typing these words.

As a longtime member, I have been silently annoyed at some of Swami's recent threads being locked. Particularly, the Thanksgiving gourdito one- good lord, that's an S&P tradition, and is always done with humor. I also was annoyed at seeing the annual Christmas baked goods thread closed. It was a nice one that only fostered Christmas spirit and goodwill. After heated debates, these kinds of threads serve to create an atmosphere of friendship. These are S&P traditions, and locking them was a disservice to our community and spoke volumes about the one(s) who locked them. (Maybe I should start a thread on the difference between the Letter of the Law and the Spirit of the Law).

Have I ever been pissed off at Swami's posts? You betcha. Until I realized that I am not my beliefs! Therefore, an attack on my beliefs is not an attack on ME. Realizing this helped me evolve spiritually. And I don't know too many people on this forum who can provoke that kind of change using mere words over the internet.

Is Swami aggressive? You betcha. It's not hard to picture him on the raquetball court, ruthlessly exploiting his opponent's weak points. And you know what? By doing so, he has improved his opponent's game. And folks, it's ALL a game! People who are pretentious and put on airs will sooner or later meet the Swamster. I've seen it happen time after time. It follows a typical pattern.. Someone joins this forum, starts posting their personal philosophy like they're Moses coming down from the mountain with the Ten Commandments and BAM! Reality check. Does the "attack" hurt? Oh yes. It burns like hellfire, but you know what hellfire's purpose is? It's there to burn away impurities, to temper the steel. By ruthlessly (with love) going after these shaky beliefs, Swami has performed a valuable service to that person, and this community.

As I said, I've been here from the beginning, and I've possibly read more of Swami's posts than anyone here. And I have never once detected a meanspirited tone from him. Never. Have I detected annoyance? You betcha. He is afterall, human like the rest of us, and from time to time he will become annoyed. (Usually from the rising tide of BS he has to deal with). But never dealt with from a place of meanness, unlike some I've seen who have been allowed to run wild here.

Swami does his thing with with wit, style and yes, humor. Most of his so-called "attacks" are laced with humor. Swami has a great sense of humor. But one defining trait of zealots is the complete lack of a sense of humor. So those most offended by Swami are people who are pretentious, and people who are zealots. The people who can most benefit from Swami are also the ones who will initially be the most offended by his words. I repeat, his words. I defy anyone to show meanness coming from Swami. He has a good heart, and a good spirit. And I thought spirit was what this place was all about. I hope I was not wrong.

I encourage the mods to immediatly reinstate Swami- an honorable member in good standing. At the very least shorten the time of his ban. This is the Christmas season after all. Where's the Christmas spirit?

thank you for reading my words,

-Jell


--------------------
I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Jellric]
    #3491220 -

As a longtime member, I have been silently annoyed at some of Swami's recent threads being locked. Particularly, the Thanksgiving gourdito one- good lord, that's an S&P tradition, and is always done with humor. I also was annoyed at seeing the annual Christmas baked goods thread closed. It was a nice one that only fostered Christmas spirit and goodwill. After heated debates, these kinds of threads serve to create an atmosphere of friendship. These are S&P traditions, and locking them was a disservice to our community and spoke volumes about the one(s) who locked them.

Thank you. :thumbup:


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3491223 -

trendal said:
It's ok, zorbman, I'm not going to ban you for using my name :smirk:


You effectively dodged the real content in zorbman's post, most signfigantly, the part referring to the other recent member who has been signfigantly more involved in personal attacks, belittlement, and creating a negative atmosphere....

trendal said:
I have had people complain about Swami via PM in the past, yes, and one recently (in the past week). I have had people PM just to say they will never post in the forum again, because of Swami. I have also had people PM and bitch at me for NOT removing Swami from the forum. I have not received a PM about any other member of this forum, past or present.


Exactly how many people? How many PM's? Does the squeaky wheel always get the grease, my friend?

The real posters involved with this forum, the ones seriously interested in having discussion and growth of spiritual ideas here, are actually posting, and not complaining and squabbling over insignifigant details. When 1% of the posters involved here complain, we have to give into their every demand? Where is the logic in that?

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Jellric]
    #3491229 -

Jellic-- one of the best post of the year!

Bravo!


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Jellric]
    #3491269 -

:thumbup:
good post man

the Swami Resistance grows.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3491312 -

S&P is not only a place for you to stand on a soap box and preach your ideas

Is this not what Swami does? I must be living in a vacuum if I'm the only one here to whom it was apparent that Swami has an agenda. He's not here for open-minded discussion, he's here to debunk ideas. And there's nothing wrong with debunking ideas, but post after post after post of the same rhetoric really adds nothing to this forum.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Jellric]
    #3491320 -

Jellric said:
I encourage the mods to immediatly reinstate Swami- an honorable member in good standing.


A wonderful suggestion. :laugh: :thumbup:

It seems as though the 98% of the people here, who don't have a problem with Swami, are now expressing their opinions on the matter... just because we don't complain all the time doesn't mean we aren't here... :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Jellric]
    #3491325 -

:thumbup:

Excellent post, Jellric. You've given me plenty to think about.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3491494 -

15 day ban on the Swamster? Ridiculous! What kind of foolhardy discipline is that? You think you can tame Swami with a 15 day ban? Pfffft!

I vote for reinstatement of Swami! I see no reason, especially relative to the behaviour of the community as a whole, to ban Swami for any amount of time, much less 15 days.


--------------------

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3491501 -

Diploid,

I know nothing of philosophical debate. I am a stay at home housewife mom, touchy feely woman. I have no experience with it. I have not seen it in the forum rules or descritption that this is a debating forum and that all posts are for the purpose of philosophical debate.

If that is what S&P was created and intended for, then, I do not belong here or care to be. In essense I am a touchy feely lover and exploer of consciousness not a fighter. People in the pub don't want to talk about spirituality cosmic consciousness stuff. even if we posted that stuff there it would get sent here.

Where is the forum for people who wish to discuss ideas and experiences related to spirituality?

You are right, when I want to discuss an idea and someone comes along to debate something from left field because they want to spar with me, yes I get confused because my head and heart are not focussed on debating.

Swami said in that post he was looking for someone to spar with. Go back and read it in full. That's why, instead of his telling me about the site info, his first reply was telling me what he thought of ME, he was looking to provoke a sparring match with me. When I didn't reply right away because I was out, he asked shroomism for a sparring match in that thread. He was bored.

Swami has this knack for twisting peoples intentions and then starting a debate on that fabrication. Go back and look as I never said I knew if that guys invention worked nor did I say I had proof that it worked nor did I even say that I cared if it did or not. Swami was writing as if I had and he says other people are dishonest in form. Ha

Tren caught what he was doing and called him on it. It was pretty easy to see.

I was just interested in the inventors theories on EM scalar waves. I thought others might be too. If I knew my posting that link was going to turn into debate fuel over something I could care less about and wasn't even aware of in the web-site, "his plans up for sale" I never would've posted it. I would've posted on free energy inovations and theories in general.

Did we get to discuss free energy theories? No. And another potentially enlightening or interesting topic got snuffed out.

Besides Diploid, you're barking up the wrong tree. I already said I appreciate swami here for the same reasons jellric posted and that I was not the one who complained about him. I can talk about other areas of interest at other message boards if they can't get off the ground here. I love the people here and wish more topics could get off the ground without being body slammed because someone wants to demonstrate their power to do it.

I always end up laughing about it too.

Fucknuckle complained about him so would you kindly get off of me please and thank you.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3491503 -

Damn right, reinstate Swami. This man was banned to control the flow of ideas. So what if he offended Fucknuckle. Fucknuckle admitted to helping murder a man on this forum...did the mods contact law enforcement about it...NO...did they ban him for presenting this content...NO. Situations like this (user confessing to crimes-check out the "Are you capable of killing" thread) have actually brought the law down on message boards. Instead you geniuses ban Swami...a good person and a valuable contributor. Swami should be reinstated. I shall go soon myself otherwise, lest I become an object of censorship too.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3491531 -

Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Damn right, reinstate Swami. This man was banned to control the flow of ideas. So what if he offended Fucknuckle. Fucknuckle admitted to helping murder a man on this forum...did the mods contact law enforcement about it...NO...did they ban him for presenting this content...NO. Situations like this (user confessing to crimes-check out the "Are you capable of killing" thread) have actually brought the law down on message boards. Instead you geniuses ban Swami...a good person and a valuable contributor. Swami should be reinstated. I shall go soon myself otherwise, lest I become an object of censorship too.



Swami isn't repsponsible nor is he needed to "control the flow of ideas". Ideas are not supposed to have restraints and not all that Swami says is fact. Sure, people say some pretty dumb things and Swami points that out, but other times he can creatively insult someone for believing something he does not. 15 days isn't a long time... I could understand making a thread to un perm-ban him, but this just doesn't make much sense.


FN never helped kill anyone:

Quote:

I never killed anyone. I once was going to. had a good reason I thought. But I jsut couldn't see risking a lifetime behind jail. The idea of killing is a easy one for me. It is the rewards of murder that bother me.

I seen a man killed right in front of my eyes. My friend is driving and we get bumped into at a stop light from behind. So my friend get out and starts talking. The other guy is yelling and screaming. So my friend tries to back up and get out of his face but the guy just keeps getting into his face.

SO my friend kinda runs to the front of his car and asks the guy to calm down. No way the guy swings on my friend. So my friend just grabs this guys head and slams it down on the corner of his front fender. Teeth and blood squirt all aross the hood. If that isn't bad enough my friend has gone into Psycho mode. He keeps slamming this mans face into his car fender. Now after about 7-8 face plants the guys skull starts to come apart.

OK IT IS TIME TO GET OUT OF THE CAR AND STOP MY FRIEND.

By the time I get him to stop the guy is very dead. We jump into the car and speed off. I was very disturbed for many months. My friend started drinking heavy. He ended up blowing his brains out a few years later.

Taking a mans life is a very hard thing to do. Unless your crazy.




--------------------

Edited by ld50negative1 (12/13/04 01:58 PM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3491580 -

"Swami isn't repsponsible nor is he needed to "control the flow of ideas"

I never said HE controlled anything...it is the mods wanting to get rid of a skeptic thereby controlling the flow of ideas.

"FN never helped kill anyone:"

No, he was just an accessory to murder by virtue of covering his friend. I guess that is a moral thing to do...huh?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3491582 -

This is a discussion forum, not a 'pat yourself on the back for what you think you know' forum, or a 'coddling others beliefs' forum, and should be treated as such.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3491585 -

I suggest that when you quote me not to ADD anything. Your quote is a very poor attempt to do what ever it is your doing. In fact that entire thing is a LIE


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491593 -

So, you are a liar not a criminal...is that correct?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491594 -

Huh? I didn't change anything... I found that in the "are you capable of murder thread".

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3352469/page//fpart/2/vc/1

I had no idea you made that up, but whatever fucknuckle.



??


--------------------

Edited by ld50negative1 (12/13/04 02:09 PM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3491599 -

So it seems like an irrational "touch-feely" housewife, and some born-again christian murderer cried to the admins and hence swami being banned?


OUCH. I deserve a banning for that one.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3491604 -

I will go a retrieve it myself. You added a bunch of stuff


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3491605 -

Swami will be reinstated, when his ban is finished. It's not permanent. If all of you are so outraged by this action then you should take it up with the admins. trendal is not fabricating anything when he says that many S&P members have stopped posting in this forum altogether because they feel that they cannot express themselves without having their threads and ideas ripped apart. In the 5 years that I have been modding here I have personally received at least 40 PMs by different people on this very subject. People who fear to post their beliefs and thoughts in this forum for fear of being lashed out on and having their character 'cut down to size' as it were.

Personally, I have nothing against Swami. I also see him as a valuable contributor and a good person at heart.. however that does not mean he is above the rules and can belittle the members here. Perhaps when he returns he will choose to be a little more sensitive when confronting others beliefs. It's fine and dandy if one chooses to be a self-proclaimed myth buster, and that type of presence is almost neccessary in this forum, but that still does not give anyone a right to come down harshly on others for expressing their innermost thoughts, that they are already apprehensive to share. There is no reason to attack others in this place, whether it be directly or indirectly. If you want passion and warfare, go to OTD where that type of thing is allowed. This forum is supposed to be for open discussion on spiritual topics which by their very nature are extremely personal. Constructive debate is always encouraged, but condescending character bashing is not. The ban stands, take it up with the admins if you don't agree.


--------------------

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491607 -

Quote:
Fucknuckle said:
I will go a retrieve it myself. You added a bunch of stuff



No I didn't! That is a straight quote! What the fuck would give me a reason to add things to a quote?

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3352469/page//fpart/2/vc/1


--------------------

Edited by ld50negative1 (12/13/04 02:11 PM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: ]
    #3491621 -

And there's nothing wrong with debunking ideas, but post after post after post of the same rhetoric really adds nothing to this forum.

I never said Swami doesn't preach his own views, I'm not sure where you got that from my post.

I certainly don't think it's justified to say that he adds nothing to this forum.

Some people simply don't think that believing things is necessary unless there is a logical reason to do so. These people have as much of a right to be here as anywhere else.

One of the reasons why science and logic have been so sucessful is because of the ability to analyse information, and determine what makes, and doesn't overlook any variables, being able to determine, point out, and admit when something is wrong.

I think it would be really cool to be part of a philosophy forum that gives birth to new and interesting views of the world.

The battles that happen here are like a natural selection of ideas. The more criticism they take, the more the ideas are refined, and the more we promote this process, the more badass we'll be.  :evil:


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Shroomism]
    #3491623 -

i wonder how many have stayed longer because of him?

No one PMs about that matter, would starting a pm flurry to the admins help? I am certain that many people would comply, if this is a quantitative matter.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Shroomism]
    #3491627 -

Spiritual topics tend to be a very personal thing. Personally I've grown immune to Swami's posts, but to some people, what he says would be like going to the Mental Health forum and making fun of all the people there who came for help.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3491638 -

I see that is what I said and I also am sorry for saying you added anything. I also read much of that thread and remember my thoughts that day. I was reffering to my teenage years when I was running the streets with my Uncles and Dads biker friends. That was 22 years ago, I was a child.

I am a very different person now. And that thread was debating Killing and Murder being different.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

Edited by Fucknuckle (12/13/04 02:24 PM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: ]
    #3491642 -

Uh, have you got an example of a post anywhere near that bad?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: looner2]
    #3491644 -

looner2 said:
So it seems like an irrational "touch-feely" housewife, and some born-again christian murderer cried to the admins and hence swami being banned?


OUCH. I deserve a banning for that one.


Has no one read my earlier posts in this thread ?


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Shroomism]
    #3491645 -

Well, it looks like you could lose more members than he has driven away. I will be one. Swami and Markosthegnostic are the guys that kept me interested. If one leaves the value of this forum deteriorates.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3491647 -

Phluck, I agree that skeptics should feel welcome and valued here. They ARE a valuable part of this forum. Believer and skeptic tend to form this sort of duality that provides a learning experience to each other. You, Diploid, and trendal are 3 S&P skeptics I can think of that can provide a rational point of view without belittling others' ideas, like Swami does occasionally. See my response to Shroomism above.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3491651 -

No posts are near that bad. I'm saying though that some people here take it that way.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: ]
    #3491660 -

Max Headroom said:
No posts are near that bad. I'm saying though that some people here take it that way.


DID anyone read my first post in this thread ? :confused:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3491663 -

Phluck I want to say that your posts are the kind of thing I wish I would see more often from Swami.

Simply telling someone they are wrong does FAR less good than telling them why they are wrong. Your posts are consistently of the latter type, with compelling arguments to BACK UP your viewpoint.

:thumbup:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: ]
    #3491668 -

I'm not really convinced that Swami is any worse than me, though. I specifically recall referring to Christianity as believing in fairy tales, and I've probably used the term "douchebag" on several occasions.

Perhaps it's Swami's use of puns that causes so much offense?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3491681 -

"telling them why they are wrong"

That is very relevant. It also is not against the rules. This petty behavior in a philosophy forum...you should be ashamed for engaging in it. Every one speaks of how bad the ego is...but it is shown in it's full glory at times like these. Hyppocritical behavior to be sure. Learning to admit when you are wrong is a positive quality.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3491698 -

I think trendal's point about explaining your viewpoint is part of it. If you're a skeptic (generally speaking) and are going to speak bluntly and on occasion without social tact, AT LEAST have the courtesy to explain your position, rather than just saying someone's wrong.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3491703 -

Swami's a ball-buster, but he's no troll. He just calls people on their bullshit and people hate him for it. I can get fed up with a debate pretty quickly, but he knows exactly how to keep people on their toes and make them address his points directly. He's actually helped me out a great deal as far as getting rid of self-limiting beliefs and taking control of my emotions.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: looner2]
    #3491707 -

looner2 said:
So it seems like an irrational "touch-feely" housewife, and some born-again christian murderer cried to the admins and hence swami being banned?


OUCH. I deserve a banning for that one.


For the second time and Trendal confirmed this. I did not complain. I think swamis comments are funny.

Trendal, why did you drag me into this with what he said to me. I never complained to you and I wish you would clear that up.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: silversoul7]
    #3491710 -

" taking control of my emotions"

Out of curiosity, who is in control of your emotions? Who was? Why take control of them? Really now, emotions will soon have to protest like feminists, and no one would like that. all this control. tsk

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: ]
    #3491713 -

Anyone got an actual example of Swami simply telling someone they're wrong?

I see occasional snappy posts from him, but they're usually more just puns or something, his opinion is clear, but he rarely actually states that they're wrong.

Unless I'm missing some...


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3491714 -

They can't read my first post in this thread it seems.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3491716 -

Who said you complained...thats one I hadn't heard. I was told it was FK. This is like a Witchhunt in reverse.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491727 -

ad hominem!


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491732 -

Fucknuckle said:
This is a repeat post from another thread "Anger revisted"

I want to make sure that all of you read it

I was not going to address any of this but I see that it has turn into a great big monster

Brutal logic is not what hurt my feelings. I am way past that lesson. My feelings were hurt by Swami who called me "Brother" more than once in posts and in PM's. Then Swami said somethings to me in public posts that really told me what kind of man he is and what he is capable of and what he really feels. I will give Swami's post that put me past the point of feeling safe and part of a greater community.


SWAMI SAID
Maybe. Child molestors are FORCED to undergo therapy as a part of many programs. To get a lighter sentence or be up for parole, they must participate. In this case, the public confession may merely be a facade and revelatory of no change whatsoever.


Now this post he made within 24 hours of my public confession to growing up sexualy abused, The fact that I was busted with a feloney and let go early etc.... I also was in the middle of confessing and discussing my ping pong battle with God.


Anyway here is a few lines from a large post that I had made only the day before Swamis post.

FUCKNUCKLE SAID
" In fact I came from a very twisted home with abusive parents. I suffered poverty to the highest degree. I was forced into sexual acts with adults. I was forced into drugs at a very young age. I was put in a foster home twice."

"God forgave me and told me that I was not going to spend another day in Jail. Yeah right my bail was set at 75,0000 bucks. Not only did I not spend another day in jail. I never went back. The charges were lowered.etc...."


If you notice in the begining of my post I used the word FORCED a couple of times and this word was important to me while I wrote it.
And was important in Swami post as well. Now this could be debated until the sun comes up that I am reading far to much into this. But I am not. Swami is a master at this type of technique. He has a nasty habit of knowing that 90% of the people are not going to see what he is doing. But 90% of the people he insults and abuses see this because Swami has used this known tech. Swami takes pleasure in this and the fact that most of you seem to not see it or choose to ignore it makes this place no fun. To have Swami insult you anytime he feels like it and denie it because he has good skills is no excuse.

Swami was calling me a liar, a child molester and my confessions and my desire to get feedback as nothing more than fake and weak, with no merit. I'd say he was abusive and extremly insultive.

The truth is I was busted for Drugs and let go because of fouled paperwork, thank God. I went to bible college thru a church long after my law trouble and not some Jail program,Etc.............. I was a very abused Kid who has made a miracules recovery with God and turn his adult life into a life of service and much money. I have alot to give, teach and alot to learn.


I have been called a PUSSY indirectly several times in several threads this past 2 days. That does not bother me in any way. Also I did not ask any Mods to ban Swami. I asked whay he was contuined to be allowed to do this crap. As Trendal has said Swamis's ban was his doing not any one member.

So while Swami is a huge part of this forum he has also been a huge part of pain and judemental assumptions. I have been a closet reader of this forum for 2 years and only in the past 8 months have I started posting. I have not been part of the drama. I can tell you in my experience as a Outside reader Swami is very capable of being NASTY and Mean and finds great pleasure in it. IS this the type behaviour that you will accept ? If it is then maybe my choice to leave it is the right one. I can read from a distance again


I have said my peace and hope all of you grow from it and really try not to keep worshiping Swami and not keep calling the other half of Swami's problems Pussys cowards etc........... That is very child like.

Swami has a real issue to deal with. As do we all.



--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491746 -

If you put your real life out on the net people CAN comment on it. To put yourself out there is foolish. I guard my true life jealously.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3491749 -

That is not the point is it ?


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3491759 -

Sorry jiggy, I didn't mean to insinuate that it was you who complained to me. As I stated earlier in the thread, the quote from your thread was simply the first one to come up in a quick search!


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491766 -

So just because swami used the word "forced" in a similar context to how you used it, that means he's directly insulting you?

Now this could be debated until the sun comes up that I am reading far to much into this. But I am not. Swami is a master at this type of technique.

Can you come up with a SINGLE other example of him using this technique?

This seems too farfetched to be even remotely considered accusing you of being a child molester. It certainly looks like what Swami was saying fits directly into the context of whatever point he was making, but you make it a little difficult to check that for ourselves without even providing the thread it came from.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3491769 -

Swami has used certain debunking "references" in the past to prove his points without really dicussing the references to begin with. For example, the imfamous Jonestown Massacre, the cult drinking poisoned Kool-aid and committing mass suicide. He accepts as fact that this is what happened, but he has never discussed the fact that there is now evidence that Jim Jones was a CIA operative and this was actually a murder and not a suicide. You can't take these sort of things and use them as justification of your point of view without further exploring the incident itself. This is like Chirstians who claim the Bible as fact and use it to "prove" their viewpoint.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491774 -

You are paranoid to think that Swami is manipulating your mind. You have no self control?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3491777 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Who said you complained...thats one I hadn't heard. I was told it was FK.


Looner is having reading comprehension problems today and looking to add fuel to dry elements of an already out of control fire here.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Shroomism]
    #3491778 -

Quote:
trendal is not fabricating anything when he says that many S&P members have stopped posting in this forum altogether because they feel that they cannot express themselves without having their threads and ideas ripped apart.



Listen Shroomism, open discussion means being free to initiate and continue a conversation of topic. What you overlook is that open discussion does not mean a lack of criticism, in fact, true open discussion always creates the opportunity for it. Those who actually wish to engage in open discussion should expect to be met with criticism if their beliefs do not stand up to the laws of logic. One should expect the chance of their beliefs being "ripped apart" if they engage in such discussion, no?

Quote:
Constructive debate is always encouraged, but condescending character bashing is not.



What is the ratio of constructive debate to "condescending character bashing" in regards to Swami? I am sure the all of these supposed instances of "condescending character bashing" are lost in a see of constructive debate, probably like most regulars here. I do not see why you personally single Swami out - I do have my theories though, but I will not post them out of fear of being accused of flaming you or being banned myself (how's that for "being afraid of posting one's beliefs").

Quote:
Personally, I have nothing against Swami. I also see him as a valuable contributor and a good person at heart.. however that does not mean he is above the rules and can belittle the members here.



At least be consistent then. Like I have pointed out, such supposedly "offensive" posts similiar to Swami's happen all the time in PAL - the forum that is most similar to S&P. Are you also willing to ban all those PAL regulars (probably a majority) who do as Swami does?

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3491782 -

Do you think my one complant resulted in Swamis banning ?

Think again and go back and read Trendal posts


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3491794 -

"the quote from your thread was simply the first one to come up in a quick search!"

So, you were actively searching for a reason to ban him?? Jiggy has indicated that she did not want your assistance...so this IS a witch hunt...for skeptics.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3491795 -

OK, I looked it up, Swami's quote there is in response to this from trendal:


"Well I would think that a public confession indicates that one has admitted their mistakes, and not only to themselves. "

In that case, he's simply pointing out that some people are forced to confess publicly, and that this doesn't necessarily mean that they've admitted the problems to themselves. Child molesters are the only people I can think of that have to do this, and "forced" is the word that makes the most sense in that context.

It's a huge leap to say that Swami was attacking you with that post.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3491802 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
You are paranoid to think that Swami is manipulating your mind. You have no self control?

\

Wrong I do not have that habit not now or ever. Swami has not manipualted my mind and you don't understand my point. :rolleyes:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Vvellum]
    #3491809 -

At least be consistent then. Like I have pointed out, such supposedly "offensive" posts similiar to Swami's happen all the time in PAL - the forum that is most similar to S&P. Are you also willing to ban all those PAL regulars (probably a majority) who do as Swami does?

As pinky already pointed out, PAL and S&P are two different forums. If you would like to start a blanket policy for the entire site in general, I'll be happy to forward your request to the admins.

The Pub and OTD are two "similar" forums, yet they have wildly different ideas of what can and can not be said in each.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491818 -

Do you think my one complant resulted in Swamis banning ?

Think again and go back and read Trendal posts

I know there have been multiple complaints. In this thread I've seen two examples of so called "offending posts", and neither of them seem to be anything bad at all.

I don't think sheer volume of complaints is a good reason to ban someone. If someone goes through life without making a single enemy, they're doing something wrong.

The complaints should be responded to based on their merit. I haven't seen any valid complaint yet.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3491824 -

"If you would like to start a blanket policy for the entire site in general, I'll be happy to forward your request to the admins."

That would give you even more room to assert your control...you should love that.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Vvellum]
    #3491837 -

Shroomism is just upset over being chided by Swami for welching on that Planet Nibiru bet. And trendal is upset with Swami because they mixed it up good over the last few weeks in posts. j/k  :grin: Our mods did not make this decision on personal grounds. I repeat: Our mods did NOT make this decision on personal grounds.  :yesnod:

And as far as "taking it up with the admins", crikey, which mods originated and pushed this "ban Swami" campaign anyway? Why don't they come out into the light of day and defend their decision instead of hiding in Big Daddy admins' pockets?


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Edited by zorbman (12/13/04 03:06 PM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3491849 -

Phluck said:
It's a huge leap to say that Swami was attacking you with that post.


It is ?

from your position I already said that would seem correct. But from the view point of myself and others I'd say that is exatly what he did. Not only has he done this type of thing to me a few times he has done this type of thing to many many people many times ?

Have you ever asked yourself why the same people keep posting in here month after month ? And the people that see Swami for what he is are not here ? It is because you don't see what is happening


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3491854 -

Quote:
As pinky already pointed out, PAL and S&P are two different forums. If you would like to start a blanket policy for the entire site in general, I'll be happy to forward your request to the admins.

The Pub and OTD are two "similar" forums, yet they have wildly different ideas of what can and can not be said in each.



Yes, that is what you both have said - obviously. Now, go back and see my response to pinksharkmark and answer my questions that were overlooked.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3491855 -

I think the problem here is not the admins, I've been an admin, asserting your control isn't all it's made out to be.

Trendal made a decision based on the pressure from people in this forum. I think it was a decision that was not reviewed carefully enough. I have nothing against Trendal or the other mods, I just think one bad decision was made, and needs to be reversed.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: zorbman]
    #3491864 -

Quote:
And as far as "taking it up with the admins", crikey, which mods originated and pushed this "ban Swami" campaign anyway? Why don't they come out into the light of day and defend their decision instead of hiding in Big Daddy admins' pockets?


exactly.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3491875 -

I will say quite LARGELY that there was no pressure put on Trendal by myself. We talked in 3 PM's over 20 min. I never asked for a Ban.

Pressure ? I don't think so


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Vvellum]
    #3491882 -

bi0 said:
Quote:
And as far as "taking it up with the admins", crikey, which mods originated and pushed this "ban Swami" campaign anyway? Why don't they come out into the light of day and defend their decision instead of hiding in Big Daddy admins' pockets?


exactly.


READ THE ENTIRE THREAD :thumbup:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491883 -

And the people that see Swami for what he is are not here ? It is because you don't see what is happening

Isn't that just a clever way of saying someone is stupid?

I don't necessarily believe you are saying that, but I just want you to see how some people's complaints against Swami are viewed by many here. You didn't come out and say he was stupid, but could you see how it could be taken that way?


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491885 -

They are trigger-happy.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3491889 -

sorry but i did not make this thread to blame the people for pushing for a ban, lighten up guys, the whole purpose was to state something positive/subjective to get his banning removed. the more the arguing the continues the less likely the mods are going to be less resistant.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491906 -

from your position I already said that would seem correct. But from the view point of myself and others I'd say that is exatly what he did.

If Swami's motives are open to interpretation, and if they are debatable as you admit, then why in Hades is someone being banned over that? Shouldn't a ban be used only when someone has clearly violated the rules?

This is just silly.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491908 -

Have you ever asked yourself why the same people keep posting in here month after month ? And the people that see Swami for what he is are not here ? It is because you don't see what is happening

Here's what is happening.

Philosophy promotes critical thinking and analysis of ideas.
Spirituality promotes faith.

These are two directly conflicting ideals.

Theology promotes faith for some things, but you're allowed to think about the rest of stuff.

Perhaps we should have a Philosophy forum for those who like to think, and a Spirituality and Theology forum for those who like to believe.

Swami, like the rest of us, just likes to share his thoughts and ideas.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: zorbman]
    #3491919 -

Yes I agree but, I did not reffer to anyones personal situations.

Fact is Swami is smarter than most and knows how to do this type of thing.

I just don't go around my life Paranoid. I have built a huge life with many people in it and many partnerships. A person does not make shit up and do what I do. I am in the market to develope people. That is what I do for a living. I am a motivational speaker, A leader, a boss Etc....... I have read many books. I know exactly what Swami does and so does he.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3491922 -

Here is a recent example Swami's logically infalible posts:

In response to EgoTripping's thread about Antony Flew becomming a theist,

Swami said:
Quote:

1. All people are born atheistic.

2. The guy is old and nearer to facing the end than most. Churches are filled with the elderly.



I'm not sure if the guy deserves getting banned, but IMO his position was weak and predictable and he thought everything he said was unassailable. Despite the fact I think he is wrong about absolutely everything, I haven't read into his nuances deep enough to find any true malicious intent, just stubborness and smugness.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491931 -

I just don't go around my life Paranoid. I have built a huge life with many people in it and many partnerships. A person does not make shit up and do what I do. I am in the market to develope people. That is what I do for a living. I am a motivational speaker, A leader, a boss Etc....... I have read many books. I know exactly what Swami does and so does he.

I don't see how any of these makes it so that you can't occasionally read too far into something. The comment Swami made HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU, and it directly backed up what he was talking about in the thread it appeared in, which had no relation at all to you.

This kind of evidence wouldn't hold up in any court on the planet, and it's silly to use it as the basis for a ban.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: zorbman]
    #3491937 -

zorbman said:
from your position I already said that would seem correct. But from the view point of myself and others I'd say that is exatly what he did.

If Swami's motives are open to interpretation, and if they are debatable as you admit, then why in Hades is someone being banned over that? Shouldn't a ban be used only when someone has clearly violated the rules?

This is just silly.


Because Swami does this type of thing often. That is not up for debate and the reason he was banned. Which can be read in the begining of this thread.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3491949 -

PLEASE STOP PICKING AT EACH-OTHER. ITS NOT OURSELVES THAT WE NEED TO PICK AT BUT GIVE THE MODS GOOD REASON TO REMOVE SWAMIS BAN!!!!


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3491950 -

Swami has been warned more times than the average Shroomerite for his behavior (Trust me, banning him was the LAST option, everything else had been tried... multiple times). Finally he was banned. His ban will be removed when his time is up.

Someone ALWAYS disagrees with any mod action.

This thread should be moved to WA&F. Swami was banned to reduce drama in S&P, not to provoke it.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3491951 -

I'm not sure if the guy deserves getting banned, but IMO his position was weak and predictable and he thought everything he said was unassailable. Despite the fact I think he is wrong about absolutely everything, I haven't read into his nuances deep enough to find any true malicious intent, just stubborness and smugness.

It's probably not the best point he's made, but if we're judging people by the strength of their arguments here, there are lots of theists who've done plenty worse.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Rose]
    #3491961 -

Swami has been warned more times than the average Shroomerite for his behavior

Could someone please provide a genuine example of bad behaviour on the part of Swami?

The whole case against him seems absolutely fabricated.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3491978 -

Quote:
Phluck said:
I just don't go around my life Paranoid. I have built a huge life with many people in it and many partnerships. A person does not make shit up and do what I do. I am in the market to develope people. That is what I do for a living. I am a motivational speaker, A leader, a boss Etc....... I have read many books. I know exactly what Swami does and so does he.

I don't see how any of these makes it so that you can't occasionally read too far into something. The comment Swami made HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU, and it directly backed up what he was talking about in the thread it appeared in, which had no relation at all to you.

This kind of evidence wouldn't hold up in any court on the planet, and it's silly to use it as the basis for a ban.




Many smart people get away with murder. Your point ? And I say it once again I WAS NOT THE REASON FOR HIS BAN and this one example is not the reason. You insult the people who run this place


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3492039 -

Then what are the reasons, really?
Where are the other examples of things he said that were so bad?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3492051 -

Can someone move this thread, it is cramping this forum's style, and WA&F would get more administrative response.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3492062 -

Please go back and reread all the Mods posts in this thread. I think you are just trying to prove that I had it out for Swami. That simply is not what happened and not at all how I feel. In fact he got banned 2 days after my last visit until today.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3492065 -

because they want to spar with me,

jiggy, have you not read anything that I've been typing?

These debates are NOT ABOUT YOU. They are about the ideas put forth. If you say something silly and I demonstrate through a common-sense argument that it is in fact silly, then admit that it's silly or refute my argument.

I get confused because my head and heart are not focussed on debating.

It's not about the debate, it's about the truth. Are you not concerned with the truth? If what your heart tells you can be demonstrated to be false by a clear, logical, irrefutable chain of points, then which would you prefer; to hold blindly to your false beliefs or move beyond them to the truth?

Did we get to discuss free energy theories? No.

You have only yourself to blame. When Swami began discussing the idea of free energy, you began discussing Swami's psychological issues. Had you stuck to the topic, the discussion would have stayed on track.

Swami said in that post he was looking for someone to spar with.

That was a joke and it was directed at Shroomism, not at you.

would you kindly get off of me please

Ah, the irony...

Here you go again taking things personally. I'm picking on this particular post, not because I want to 'spar' with you, but because Trendal used it to defend his position. Why must you make this a personal thing between me and you. Until you made it necessary for me to reply to you specifically, all my posts re your energy thread were addressed to Trendal.

Why do you have so much trouble with this. I'm attacking an idea, not you. You're the one making this personal by suggesting that I'm "barking up the wrong tree", i.e. barking at you.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (12/13/04 03:48 PM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Rose]
    #3492095 -

"Swami was banned to reduce drama in S&P, not to provoke it."

Maybe all of the "drama" is caused by bad judgements on the part of the moderators?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3492103 -

I never said it was your fault directly.

My question goes out to anyone who can answer it;

Where are the examples of Swami saying bad things?

I saw two in the thread. One seemed perfectly fair given where the post had been directed by another member, and the other one is quite a stretch, and it's not fair to claim that it's definitely an insult.

I understand that there have been complaints, but unless they have merit, why do they need to be followed, especially when it means singling out and excluding a single member?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3492134 -

So, members/mods/admins pulled together to ban Swami.

And it was for his posting "style/attitude"?

He was banned for acting like my old grump-ass philosophy teacher.

This thread hasn't been locked yet?

Mods are justifying the ban.

Something is odd.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #3492154 -

He was banned for acting like my old grump-ass philosophy teacher.

He's not usually very grumpy though.
In fact, I've rarely seen Swami take anything but an upbeat, lighthearted kind of attitude.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3492159 -

Quote:
My question goes out to anyone who can answer it;

Where are the examples of Swami saying bad things?

I saw two in the thread. One seemed perfectly fair given where the post had been directed by another member, and the other one is quite a stretch, and it's not fair to claim that it's definitely an insult.

I understand that there have been complaints, but unless they have merit, why do they need to be followed, especially when it means singling out and excluding a single member?



yes, I would like to see the evidence please.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #3492166 -

Quote:
This thread hasn't been locked yet?


*deleted

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Vvellum]
    #3492184 -

I'm still waiting as well...


--------------------

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: looner2]
    #3492261 -

So it seems like an irrational "touch-feely" housewife, and some born-again christian murderer cried to the admins and hence swami being banned?

jiggy said she had nothing to do with this, and I believe her.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3492279 -

What's the deal with S&P?
All the space cadets wet their pants when someone bursts a few of their bubbles? What thin skin.

How come the site is not using this subforum thing? Make a S&P subforum for those who want to cry to the mods if their posts get mildy-sorta-not-really insulted. You can call it the Bumper Lane or something.


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Shroomism]
    #3492305 -

many S&P members have stopped posting in this forum altogether because they feel that they cannot express themselves without having their threads and ideas ripped apart.

So what?

If their ideas are so contrived and nonsensical as to be susceptible to being 'ripped apart', then why should they be permitted to flourish?

Truth cannot be 'ripped apart'.

This forum is supposed to be for open discussion

Geez, doesn't anyone else see the irony just dripping from this post?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3492371 -

Diploid said:
many S&P members have stopped posting in this forum altogether because they feel that they cannot express themselves without having their threads and ideas ripped apart.

So what?

If their ideas are so contrived and nonsensical as to be susceptible to being 'ripped apart', then why should they be permitted to flourish?

Truth cannot be 'ripped apart'.



Truth is subjective.. especially when dealing with SPIRITUAL and PHILOSOPHICAL issues. It's not the science forum for christ's sake.

Quote:
This forum is supposed to be for open discussion

Geez, doesn't anyone else see the irony just dripping from this post?


No, I must have missed it. Perhaps you can enlighten us.


--------------------

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3492413 -

I have read everything you have said loud and clear.

What debates are you talking about. I adressed only the one swami attempted to engange in with me, the ONE you posted here and made about ME. You dragged me into this fiasco and are moving to make it about ME diploid.

If swami wanted to debate ideas put forth, why was his FIRST comment a personal one that said he thinks I like to beleive in magic???? Answer that before you go any further with derailments.

Where did I even state a belief for swami to bring into question in that thread? Answer that before you go any further. I stated no beleifs to be debated as being false. see how good swami is making people beleive someone said something they didn't. He got you.

Truth? I know one absolute truth and that is that everything changes. Anything else I beleive in comes from my personal experience with it. If people want to tell me what I have experienced in my life then that is just funny.

And do tell me a false beleif I have that I hold blindly too? I have said here many times that I am not a faith oriented person, I am an experience oriented person.

If you want to challenge peoples beleifs you think the have blind faith in and are false, go right ahead. I didn't say you couldn't or shouldn't and please don't put words in my mouth. According to what I have learned from reading swami in debates, that is dishonest and in bad form.

Yes, I do take accountability for allowing swami to derail the thread I started.

His joke aimed at shroomism was swamis when of saying, I am bored, come out and play with me. He does it alot. I opted to play with him instead as discussing EM scalar wave theories was a bust at that point, because he called the guy who enetertained these ideas a fraud without any proof his plans do not do what they say they do. Even if they didn't, his ideas were interesting.

What makes it personal diploid is that both you and tren used a discussion swami and i had as evidense for and against his getting banned. Both of you doing it that makes it look like I complained about swami or that its because of people like me swami got banned. Because I have never complained to the mods about swami, dragging me into this in ANY way is making it personal.

Please leave any discussion I have ever had with swami out of this because I never wanted him banned or complained to any mods about him.

Because of this stuff, already looner, thinks I did and who knows how many others are getting that "false" idea and belief, because a recent post he and I were in is being used as an example by you and tren.

This isn't about me and so I and I ask that everyone else who is looking to stand behind a woman to toss at swami or the mods, please leave me and my posts out of this because I have never had an exchange with swami I couldn't handle or asked for mod intervention.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3492423 -

Where are the examples of Swami saying bad things?

I saw two in the thread. One seemed perfectly fair given where the post had been directed by another member, and the other one is quite a stretch, and it's not fair to claim that it's definitely an insult.

Exactly. Also, I find it highly ironic that we are being asked to believe that one of the reasons for this ban was that Swami had a "chilling effect" upon some of our more sensitive posters. Yet this ban will have its own chilling effect- stifling criticism and honest debate. If a few people read something hurtful into your posts, you can now be banned.

So watch what you say, folks.

To date, no rational reason has been given for the ban.

Still waiting..


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3492438 -

has anyone considered thee fact that swami might have gotten himself banned on purpose? perhaps to bring about another thought provoking conversatin that has lasted the last 7 pages? if you think about it this is exactly his style


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: ZippoZ]
    #3492518 -

TheHateCamel said:
So, members/mods/admins pulled together to ban Swami.

And it was for his posting "style/attitude"?

He was banned for acting like my old grump-ass philosophy teacher.

This thread hasn't been locked yet?

Mods are justifying the ban.

Something is odd.



Maybe it's one last bit of fun before he is forced to take a new, more kind approach.

Or it's a total trick.

Or he was obsessed with posting here and this was the only way out.

Or the ban is ridiculous.

Who knows?

Swami knows.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: ZippoZ]
    #3492546 -

If Swami was trying to get himself banned, what the hell was he doing that constituted that sort of attempt?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: zorbman]
    #3492559 -

To date, no rational reason has been given for the ban.

I wonder what rational reason will be given for moving what may be the most relevant thread to S&P in years to WAF.  :thumbdown:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3492577 -

I wonder what rational reason will be given for moving what may be the most relevant thread to S&P in years to WAF.

(a) It has nothing to do with either spirituality OR philosophy.

(b) The person who created the thread asked that we DELETE the entire thing. It was moved to WAF instead of being tossed into the garbage entirely.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3492579 -

actually i didn't want it moved i wanted it deleted people have been abusing other members in this thread and thats not what i made it for, what i made it for was to post something positive about removing swamis ban but people have taken it over the top.
think what you will. JMO


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: zorbman]
    #3492606 -

zorbman said:
Also, I find it highly ironic that we are being asked to believe that one of the reasons for this ban was that Swami had a "chilling effect" upon some of our more sensitive posters. Yet this ban will have its own chilling effect- stifling criticism and honest debate. If a few people read something hurtful into your posts, you can now be banned.

So watch what you say, folks.



This is just overstated hyperbole.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3492607 -

I think this thread is probably more appropriate in this forum. This forum was made for threads of this kind.

But... still no examples of how Swami was being bad?
Why?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3492684 -

I think its funny how they say, "its only a week, he'll be back".

What is that suppose to mean? Can swami go back to being swami or does he need to have his posts screened through trendal and shroomism?


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3492692 -

You won't find any now that this thred has ben moved the mods will ignore it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: ZippoZ]
    #3492750 -

My, my, my... If it isn't the Cult of Swami.
Do you guys realize this is a sequence of some 200 posts who almost all gang up against the moderators in hostile aggressive attack?
Let me pick apart a post that catches the heart of the matter:

Quote:
I just want people here to get over themselves and realize that this is a forum for vigorously scrutinizing beliefs.


No like Hell it's not!
It's a Spirituality and Philosophy forum. But what has it become? Someone posts something and Crack! Snap! Smash! Pop! it gets mauled by a hungry mob of hostile debunkers. In many a thread the people who want to share and compare their beliefs and offer friendly respectful criticism are completely drowned out by cold, hard "logic" that is entirely aimed at debunking and tearing somebodies dearest beliefs to shreds.

This looks like the Holy War Forum where people walk in and get stomped to the meatgrinder for sharing their beliefs, to be replaced by "truths" that are as subjective as the beliefs that were uttered in the first place.

Quote:
Attacks on beliefs posted here should be ruthless.


wOT?
Excuse me?
But indeed, THAT is what the Spirituality forum has become.
A place of ruthless assassination of free thought and personal beliefs.

Quote:
If those beliefs fail under that scrutiny, then they suck


Ram into people and if they yield their personal beliefs suck. Yes that is precisely why I rarely post on Spir & Phil anymore.

Quote:
If a belief is true, it will come through the scrutiny untouched.


No the scrutiny will never end until the poster finally yields and walks out. Logic? This is a travesty of scientific debate. This is assuming you hold the absolute truth (fundamentalism?) and applying it as the measure of anothers beliefs. An acid test that isn't lysergic but battery acid that bites into peoples core beliefs of their personal spirituality.

Quote:
If it is suspect or false, that too will become evident as the debate progresses.



This is the Salem Witch Hunt in www form.

Well guess what: one of the Captains of this school of thought has been banned for 15 days.

He knows what he's doing. He is inciting unrest in such a way that if you try to point it out you sound the fool with far-fetched ideas.
Swami isn't the one to shout "Bitch!", he utters the same sentiment by the clever insinuations of a master manipulator.

He knows what he is doing. And he knows he will be banned permanently some day if he keeps it up.

This whole thread is one vicious assault, of some 200 posts, on the people that make the Shroomery happen in the first place. It is the good old Spirituality & Philosophy game of Crack! Snap! Smash! Pop! again in defense of Swami.
Looks like we got ourselves a ringleader.


Swami has his good posts where he lights up the entire forum with his sharp wits and good sense of humor. That is the Swami you can't help but like. But when he has an off-day or so his usual style contains a well-cloaked venom that indeed seems to only bite the ones he directs it against. The good side of Swami, like I said, lights up the forum and enriches it a great deal, but there is a bad side to him which he got banned for, and unless he keeps that offline that might get him banned for good.


Swami, I know you're reading this today if not tomorrow, feel free to PM me if you want to go in-depth about all this.
Remember I'm just a dissonant tone in the choir of Swami-praise that is this thread. I wonder if you're happy with the particular way people here step up for you.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Asante]
    #3492782 -

I'm sure they would do the same for you.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #3492810 -

Hello everybody, I usually just hang in the backround but I have to chime in here. One of the main reason's I come here is to read Swami's post's in S&P. I may not always agree with him or see things his way but I enjoy reading his threads. I think some people do not like him because he points out the weakness in their arguments.
If fucknuckle is the reason for his ban that is absurd. I won't even read a post by him because of his abrasive,been there done that,I know it all, no exception attitude. Swami is by far > than FUCKNUCKLE. His name says it all!!!!
FREE SWAMI!!!!!

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: mycrodot]
    #3492838 -

how can you compare 2 people whom you don't know personally? fucknuckle has his own truths so does swami whos' right whos' wrong?
NOBODY


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Asante]
    #3492867 -


No like Hell it's not!
It's a Spirituality and Philosophy forum. But what has it become? Someone posts something and Crack! Snap! Smash! Pop! it gets mauled by a hungry mob of hostile debunkers. In many a thread the people who want to share and compare their beliefs and offer friendly respectful criticism are completely drowned out by cold, hard "logic" that is entirely aimed at debunking and tearing somebodies dearest beliefs to shreds.

Have you ever taken philosophy? Seen two grown philosophy professors in a room together?

Debate and competetition are what philosophy was built on. Without scrutiny, it is not philosophy, it is ONLY spirituality.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: mycrodot]
    #3492872 -

I mostly lurk in S&P so I'm sure my opinion isn't worth very much to most regulars in there, but I dunno.

Maybe it's just me, but one person does not make a forum.

S&P will go on, with or without Swami.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: MOTH]
    #3492907 -

It dosn't matter to you that someone has been banned for expressing valid ideas? If I can't express myself I will go elsewhere.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3492920 -

Debate and competetition are what philosophy was built on. Without scrutiny, it is not philosophy, it is ONLY spirituality

and guess what that forums is called?


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3492934 -

Well, somebody could very well be right, and somebody could very well be wrong, but that's not what's at issue here at all.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: MOTH]
    #3492939 -

I am just a newbie and unfmailiar wtih the kast of characters so I prolly should stay out of this but I was intrigued and after all the smoke has cleard I don't see what this Swami guy did. i only ask so that I won;t make the same mistake.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3492949 -

Trendal - [once again] please respond to my questions regarding the supposed differences between S&P and PAL. You're dodging me.

Here it is again:

bi0 said:
How exactly are they that different to allow such radically different authoritative decision and action?

PAL:

Quote:
In general I like to keep the flow of information and ideas free in the political forum...but due to the nature of this forum there is bound to be some heated debate.
Here are 2 rules that I would like all of you to observe.

1) NO FLAMING ...if you can't state your case or refute someone elses case without calling them "stupid" or an "idiot"..etc...Then don't bother posting here. This forum is for intelligent debate, not to try to belittle someone that doesn't think like you. THIS WILL BE STRICTLY ENFORCED ... If you have been warned already, you will receive a temporary ban, if you continue to flame you will be banned permanently...choose your words wisely or suffer the consequences.

2) Although not always possible, when quoting a source please provide a link.

That's it..Basically I am looking to create a more tolerant atmosphere in here...it's not too much to ask. There are many different views and beliefs represented in this forum, more so than any other (with the possible exception of the S & P forum) and we need to be able to communicate our points of view clearly without resorting to petty name calling. We are better than that.


S&P:

Quote:
Welcome to the Spirituality and Philosophy forum!
A place where you may express your deepest thoughts within an open community of diverse individuals.
While you post in this forum we ask that you abide by a few simple rules in order to promote the general peace.

1)No Flaming
2)No Baiting
3)Be Respectful
4)Come with an open mind
5)This isn't OTD...keep posts on topic where possible. Off-topic posts will be removed at the mods' discretion.

If you are found to be breaking one of these rules, provoking, insulting, or otherwise disrupting the general harmony and the people of this forum to the discretion of those involved and the moderators.. you will be subject to warning, either public or PM, second time may result in a temporary ban, and third may result in permanent ban, depending on the severity of the scenario. Just think before you post and all will be good


Have a wonderful existence
Peace and Namaste


They basically say the same thing. The PAL bans, as you know, are of chronic flamers and puppets/trolls. Swami is hardly in these categories; he's a longtime cornerstone member who's supposed "offensive" posts are no worse than those that are so common in PAL. So what gives? Why the gross inconsistency?


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3492958 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
It dosn't matter to you that someone has been banned for expressing valid ideas?


Please reread my post.

I never said it didn't matter to me. In fact, I didn't say anything about that at all.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Vvellum]
    #3492968 -

How exactly are they that different to allow such radically different authoritative decision and action?

Aside from the fact they are two separate forums with two separate topics? They also have different moderator staff involved, so a different viewpoint from that end as well.

They basically say the same thing.

I disagree, for the reasons I've already posted. Two different forums, two different topics.

So what gives? Why the gross inconsistency?

I see no inconsistency. You can't compare apples and oranges, then tell me you're angry about the banana. :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Vvellum]
    #3492977 -

Or, maybe we should just go ahead and apply The Pub's rules to OTD? I mean, you have a point here! I never noticed how incredibly inconsistent the moderation is accross this site!


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3492984 -

Philosophers don't belittle people and make them leave the room when they debate, thats the difference.

When you have a member that is runing a forum for other members to the point that it causes them to leave, you can bet your ass that guy is going to be banned.

Just how it works.

The mods look out for the best interest of the community in general. If we piss off a few people in the process, oh well... that's just how it works.

Can't make all the people happy all the time, but you can at least try to make most of the people happy most of the time. Hence banning Swami.

Just FYI: I know you guys will probably continue to gripe and moan about this, but what it all comes down to is he is NOT going to be unbanned untill his 15 days are up. This has already been discussed amongst mods and admins for a long time before he was actually banned. Some were opposed, some were for it, but in the end, the majority supported the ban... so it happened and it stays.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3493048 -

I'd just like to say that Spirituality and Philosophy have one common goal: the pursuit of truth. In pursuing truth, one must be prepared to do away with illogical or unrealistic beliefs. In this respect, "hostile debunkers" such as Swami play a vital role in that forum. Perhaps the Swami-haters here are not as committed to truth as they believe themselves to be. Swami has "ripped apart" many of my posts, but did I get offended and whine to the mods? No. I took it for what it was--constructive criticism. It's a sad day for reason and common sense when debunking is considered an offense.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3493050 -

Quote:
Debate and competetition are what philosophy was built on. Without scrutiny, it is not philosophy, it is ONLY spirituality.



Phluck, the thing that gets to me is the aggression factor. Just look how many "logic people" fly off the handle. You can't shut off emotion, ity often leads to agression.

It's a Spirituality and Philosophy forum. Without scrutiny the Philosophy would cease and the forum will be like a bird with one wing.

But a little empathy! Feel into peoples beliefs, try to grasp the essence and, because it often is so precious to them, delicately criticise. People who are friendly on other forums sometimes become warhammer-wielding ogres on Spir & Phil. And it does intimidate people.

My reason for that roaring post was because I hold the Shroomery dear, and Spir & Phil. My agenda is harmony, harmony on the forum so that the more timid dare speak out and add their value to us all.

And just look at this thread. It is horribly out of balance. Almost every single post here is aimed at driving the moderators into a trench and keeping them there.

Up to a degree you have to agree with the management. Moderators, even Admins are harshly attacked by a barrage of 200 posts!
You know THEY make it happen.

In a bar I hang out sometimes, everybody is welcome regardless of beliefs. And they pour you a nice brewski or two. But if you start bitching at the management they serve you a nice warm cup of STFU.

The management isn't a brainless gang of morons. There is a lot of debate going on and the outcome is that a 15 day ban was in order.
It is my personal belief that justifications to the others are nice, but not required, especially in a lynching mob like this thread.

Shall we all chill and debate rather then gang up and yell?


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: silversoul7]
    #3493062 -

In pursuing truth, one must be prepared to do away with illogical or unrealistic beliefs.

the otherway around too, in pursuing the truth is to do away with logical and realistic beleifs aswell.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Gumby]
    #3493072 -


Philosophers don't belittle people and make them leave the room when they debate, thats the difference.

1. We've failed to see any evidence of Swami belittling people. For all I can tell in all the discussion here, it's entirely fabricated.

and 2. Sometimes people DO leave the room and get frustrated even though they haven't been attacked. Sometimes having your beliefs criticized can feel like a personal attack even when it isn't. This is very common, and I'm sure it happens to all philosophers.

When you have a member that is runing a forum for other members to the point that it causes them to leave, you can bet your ass that guy is going to be banned.

Nobody has presented a decent case that this is what was happening here. Swamis insults are like Iraqi WMDs.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3493074 -

This is just overstated hyperbole.

Wow. Way to back up your opinion. :rolleyes:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: silversoul7]
    #3493087 -

Quote:
Perhaps the Swami-haters here are not as committed to truth as they believe themselves to be.



Excuse me, but I don't see "Swami-haters" in this thread. I see people who felt hurt by him and people disagreeing with what the majority of the management gave him a 15 days ban for.

I do see very severe aggression against the management and those of like opinion, however.

About Iraqs WMD: prove that Bush consciously lied. Only Bush knows what he did and whether or not he lied he'll say he didn't. Same argument I posted before: very subtle actions that cause unrest in the forum and silences the more timid who come for the Spirituality side or friendly debate.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

Edited by Asante (12/13/04 06:01 PM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3493090 -

Here is a recent example Swami's logically infalible posts: In response to EgoTripping's thread about Antony Flew becomming a theist,

Swami said:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1. All people are born atheistic.

2. The guy is old and nearer to facing the end than most. Churches are filled with the elderly.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if the guy deserves getting banned, but IMO his position was weak and predictable and he thought everything he said was unassailable. Despite the fact I think he is wrong about absolutely everything, I haven't read into his nuances deep enough to find any true malicious intent, just stubborness and smugness.


Does this have ANY relevance to the argument at hand??
All this talk, and STILL no one can show where Swami violated S&P rules!

Incredible!


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: zorbman]
    #3493101 -

So it is obvious that Swami's ban wasn't because of his actions, but the mods wanting to change the overal structure of S+P. Very respectable of them


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Asante]
    #3493123 -

In a bar I hang out sometimes, everybody is welcome regardless of beliefs. And they pour you a nice brewski or two. But if you start bitching at the management they serve you a nice warm cup of STFU.

It wasn't swami bitching at the management, it's members of the forum bitching about him. Complaints of mysterious nasty behaviour that just doesn't seem to materialize.

Shall we all chill and debate rather then gang up and yell?

That's what I'm trying to do here. I apologize for the jerks who can't keep it in their pants, but obviously they feel like someone has been wronged. I started a post in S&P to discuss why exactly I think he was banned, without directly alluding to the incident, but there are no responses just yet.

As for the aggression, I think it's somewhat necessary. Without some emotional stake in the debates, most of them would never happen. Competition over ideas is probably what fuelled much of philosophy's development over the centuries, it would be foolish not to embrace it to a certain extent.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: zorbman]
    #3493124 -

if you are just going to post just one post them all so people can decide for themselves


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Gumby]
    #3493134 -

Quote:
Philosophers don't belittle people and make them leave the room when they debate, thats the difference.


I still don't see where he was belittling anyone.

And I still don't understand why people cannot take criticism of their beliefs without seeing it as a personal attack. As open minded as you all claim to be, I'm surprised at this thread.

I will admit, Swami aggravates the hell out of me sometimes too, but if I advocated the banning of everyone who aggravated me...there wouldn't be that many of you left. :\ But with all those people who annoy me, in this forum or any other forum meant for serious discussion, I still read it and value and consider opinions from all sides.

It seems to me that people have varied ideas of what S&P is about. So what is it about? If its not about open discussion...then what? What good is a forum where everyone pats each other on the back for every nugget of supposed wisdom that is imparted? I believe there is a term for that..."wanking it".

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Asante]
    #3493147 -

About Iraqs WMD: prove that Bush consciously lied. Only Bush knows what he did and whether or not he lied he'll say he didn't.

I think you missed my point, it doesn't matter whether or not anyone lied here, what matters is whether or not Swami is guilty of what he was accused.

If he was being such a jerk, where are the posts where he acts like a jerk? They simply don't seem to exist.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Asante]
    #3493148 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Just look how many "logic people" fly off the handle.


I think the term used was "weak, emotionally-oriented individuals" (courtesy of bio).


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: adrug]
    #3493162 -

adrug said:
It seems to me that people have varied ideas of what S&P is about. So what is it about? If its not about open discussion...then what? What good is a forum where everyone pats each other on the back for every nugget of supposed wisdom that is imparted? I believe there is a term for that..."wanking it".


:thumbup:


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3493164 -

if you are just going to post just one post them all so people can decide for themselves

You asked for it.. *zorbman backs up truck full of posts and dumps it on your front door*.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: mycrodot]
    #3493174 -

mycrodot said:
Hello everybody, I usually just hang in the backround but I have to chime in here. One of the main reason's I come here is to read Swami's post's in S&P. I may not always agree with him or see things his way but I enjoy reading his threads. I think some people do not like him because he points out the weakness in their arguments.
If fucknuckle is the reason for his ban that is absurd. I won't even read a post by him because of his abrasive,been there done that,I know it all, no exception attitude. Swami is by far > than FUCKNUCKLE. His name says it all!!!!
FREE SWAMI!!!!!


Funny you know so much about my posts when you don't even read them :rolleyes:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: zorbman]
    #3493179 -

what i am getting at it is illogical to make such a decision on one post.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Gustavius]
    #3493184 -

Look,n00b,just mind your own B.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3493214 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Look,n00b,just mind your own B.


WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE ? :sad:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: MOTH]
    #3493241 -

"Maybe it's just me, but one person does not make a forum.

S&P will go on, with or without Swami. "

I did read it and I don't think you understood what the uproar is about. A two week ban don't mean nothing. He can come back...if he wants. The problem is that if you can get banned for honest self expression the forum loses value as a means of expression.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3493247 -

What a display this is. I hope you all go to sleep tonight, come back tomorrow, and re-read this thread the entire way through, take a step back, and see how you appear. This is degenerating into completely juvenile behavior, and it all started because Fucknuckle thought Swami was indirectly calling him a child molester. Sheesh.  :shake:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: silversoul7]
    #3493297 -

Quote:
silversoul7 said:
I'd just like to say that Spirituality and Philosophy have one common goal: the pursuit of truth. In pursuing truth, one must be prepared to do away with illogical or unrealistic beliefs. In this respect, "hostile debunkers" such as Swami play a vital role in that forum. Perhaps the Swami-haters here are not as committed to truth as they believe themselves to be. Swami has "ripped apart" many of my posts, but did I get offended and whine to the mods? No. I took it for what it was--constructive criticism. It's a sad day for reason and common sense when debunking is considered an offense.



With all due respect SS7, I think you are being too kind to Swami. I do not share the same the regard for his debating style, and quite frankly I have never felt the slightest bit challenged or threatened by it. He is a strong thinker, but he falls prey to his own prejudace. If his posts really were that valuable I would agree, but I don't think they are. Swami takes a certain conventional notion of things abitrarily and then takes a skeptical position to everything else, never questioning the assumptions he stands on. That is just an opinionated person. Like Ellemyshade said, one person does not make a forum. In fact, I think when somebody takes on the role of an antagonist, or any other static or unwavering view, the community deteriorates. That's what politics is, not the search for truth.

That and I believe that a little civility and respect for other people is a good thing. The way he dismissed others ideas and viewpoints as ignorant or stupid did not make for a positive environment. Nothing is wrong with skepticism, but having a freindly community matters. Many SP posters are not the kind you find in OTD.
I don't really support banning him, but I'm not putting on any rose-colored glasses either.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

Edited by Divided_Sky (12/13/04 07:02 PM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3493318 -

The way he dismissed others ideas and viewpoints as ignorant or stupid did not make for a positive environment.

Got any examples of him doing this?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3493339 -

Quote:
The way he dismissed others ideas and viewpoints as ignorant or stupid did not make for a positive environment.


I'm kinda new here so maybe you could help me out.

Can you point me to the thread(s) where this Swami guy dismissed others' ideas and viewpoints as ignorant or stupid, please?

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: looner2]
    #3493354 -

Quote:
looner2 said:
So it is obvious that Swami's ban wasn't because of his actions, but the mods wanting to change the overal structure of S+P. Very respectable of them



I think they envision a forum where people can come in, spout their beliefs, and everyone else is required to either agree or politely keep quiet. It will be like MA&L, where somebody draws a stick figure and everybody lets loose a flow of insincere accolades. Everybody's right. There's no logic. Only sunshine.

trendal implied that there's a fundamental difference between the purposes of S&P and PA&L, just as there's a difference in purpose between the Pub and OTD. He kinda skipped over the fact that both the Pub and OTD are for general discussion. I'll once again suggest that maybe S&P needs to be split up as well. One forum where people can actually debate and critique each other. And some sort of kiddie corner subforum for those who are personally offended when someone dares to question their beliefs. I, along with many other people, would prefer the first forum. If people don't like my stick figure, I want to know all about it, so I can keep working on making a better one. And if my belief in a certain metaphysical phenomena might be wrong, I want people to tell me about it, as long as they don't directly flame me.


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

Edited by Gijith (12/13/04 06:48 PM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3493379 -

It has become clear to me that at this point the mods have circled wagons and nothing will change. I don't think some of you helped Swami's cause (which is our cause) by becoming angry- as understandable as that may be. That only hardened the mods hearts and probably took away any chance we had to promote reason. C 'est la vie.

Yup, reason has been cast aside, and simple primate politics will prevail. I am sorry to see the mods act in this way. Sad to say, I have lost a lot of respect for you, guys. The integrity of this forum has taken a big hit over this. [I could say much more about that, but it would only throw more fuel on the fire and get us even further from rationality if that's possible.]

I appreciate that a mod is damned if you do, and damned if you don't, all the more reason to get it RIGHT. It isn't too late to do that you know? Disregard other's personal views (even your own) and get it right, guys.

In case anyone is wondering, Swami is doing just fine- I spoke with him earlier. He's getting a big laugh out of this I think. But it is a shame he will be banned, even temporarily- we need adult supervision now more than ever! To me, banning someone over the Christmas holidays is a lot more mean spirited than any supposed nuanced insult Swami ever delivered.

Merry Freakin' Christmas!
Hoo- ray.


--------------------
I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Jellric]
    #3493408 -


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Chalupa]
    #3493411 -

As I pointed out early he linked belief in any form of God with senility and weak mindedness when it was apparent EgoTripping was promoting the idea of deism.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3493415 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
"Maybe it's just me, but one person does not make a forum.

S&P will go on, with or without Swami. "

I did read it and I don't think you understood what the uproar is about. A two week ban don't mean nothing. He can come back...if he wants. The problem is that if you can get banned for honest self expression the forum loses value as a means of expression.


Yes, I understand that, I was just trying to stay neutral on this in my answer. I guess I can see where both sides are coming from.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3493462 -

If he feels that it's a valid point to make, then why shouldn't it be allowed?

What if it's demonstrated that there actually is a link between senility and theism? Should we not be allowed to discuss it because it might offend some people?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3493464 -


As I pointed out early he linked belief in any form of God with senility and weak mindedness when it was apparent EgoTripping was promoting the idea of deism.

what thread is that?


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: adrug]
    #3493483 -

adrug said:
What a display this is. I hope you all go to sleep tonight, come back tomorrow, and re-read this thread the entire way through, take a step back, and see how you appear. This is degenerating into completely juvenile behavior, and it all started because Fucknuckle thought Swami was indirectly calling him a child molester. Sheesh.  :shake:


You are to much blind to see the reasons. They have been explained quite throughly and it has absoluty nothing to do with his view points or my complaint. In fact I had nothing to do with any of it.

OPEN YOUR HEARTS AND EYES PEOPLE :laugh:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: looner2]
    #3493484 -

In the thread about the famous philosopher now believing in god, Swami pointed out that a lot of older people go to church and tend to believe in god.

Apparently this was an insult.  :rolleyes:


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3493529 -

Swami is the S&P 'Occam's razor'. And razors are known to hurt.He is/was always cynical but that is his style---->"NO bs Lets get to the point".

If this is an attempt at humbling Swami, then the folks are just a bunch of people who are abusing power to gain authority. Reminds me of religions/Govts and their cartelisation.

This one stinks bad and everyone but a few with personal vandettas would agree with moi.

Deeply Sadened

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3493530 -

Thats a fact.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Asante]
    #3493537 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:
Perhaps the Swami-haters here are not as committed to truth as they believe themselves to be.



Excuse me, but I don't see "Swami-haters" in this thread. I see people who felt hurt by him and people disagreeing with what the majority of the management gave him a 15 days ban for.


Somebody sure sounds defensive. If you can show me what part of my statement indicated that I was referring to anyone in this thread, I'd like to see it.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3493571 -

The creator of this thread has requested its closure:
Quote:
spudamore said:

can you please delete the remove swamis an thread in Website Announcements and Feedback what it has become is not what i wanted to happen people have gone overkill and needs to be stopped.


The mods brought this matter up for discussion long before any action was taken, Swami was politely PM'd about his behavior and requested to stop getting under people's skin, not to stop expressing his beliefs. This ban is temporary so hopefully Swami will be able to participate and express his beliefs while also exhibiting tolerance/respect towards other's views upon his return. As many of you know, I am not active in S&P these days, so I am supporting this ban based upon the good judgement of our moderating team who openly discussed this issue at length. If in the future, a permanent ban is requested, his case will be thoroughly reviewed before making any final decision.


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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