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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490117 -

However that doesn't justify making the insults in the first place.

in your understanding it isn't justified? a person could justify such insults.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490126 -

making the insults

Trendal,

An insult *MUST*, by definition, also be an ad hominem, no?

Please provide a link to a post where Swami uses an ad hominem.

Considering that he's posted enough to justify a 15-day ban, finding one should be easy.

If you can't find one...


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3490129 -

Trendal, you know what I see happening here? I see a personal issue between you and Swami and not one valid reason for an admonition, let alone a banning. Your long post justifying this ban makes no sense to me.

As I stated in my post, this is not my decision alone to make. The S&P staff discussed our options, then brought our opinion to the administration for consideration. We got input from many other moderators from other forums. The final decision was to hand out a 15 day ban.

This is a forum for philosophical discussion. Ad hominems aside, which Swami has never used to my knowledge, please tell me what posting style has to do with philosophical discussion?

I already explained how posting style affects others. This isn't a blog for one person to type whatever they feel like, it is a community forum where, as in real life, your words and actions DO affect those around you. All I ask is that you have some respect and common courtesy for your fellow members.

Can you take a step back and look at what you're saying for a minute. You are being absurd. You're saying that Swami should not tear apart someone's logic when that logic is susceptible to logical attack.

Actually no, that's not what I am saying at all. There is nothing wrong with picking apart someone's idea, however I don't see how insults (however well veiled) lend ANY credit to your opinion. Calling someone a fool or an idiot is not picking apart their IDEA, it is picking THEM apart. We will not accept that in this forum anymore.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490138 -

all honourable
fine
good explanation
(I remember when Chretien defended himself in the crowd, not too dissimilar)


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490141 -

well swami if you are out there reading, good "luck" for the mean time.
:laugh:

remember idle hands are the devils playground.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3490151 -

I feel we deserve some examples of Swami's words that were intepreted as over the limits for the moderators and administrators here, so that we as a community can specifically observe them and find our own interpretations of what was said.

We are a community, and Swami is obviously an integral part of this community. To remove him from this community is a very harsh thing to do, for all of us, unless he truly, consistently, stepped over the line. Very rarely have I seen him do this, and having missed the final straw, I feel a right to be informed.

Perhaps we should review Swami's character and the service he has provided to countless people here. He's obviously helped a very numerous amount of people in their own spiritual and intellectual growth, and an integral lesson in that is A.) Not acting or thinking out of emotion, and B.) Not letting critisism of one's beliefs be adversely effected by others, if those beliefs are rightfully held.

You are insane if you think this is merely a place of debate of spiritual ideas - this is an involved community involved with the direct spiritual growth of everyone participating. To remove aspects of Swami's character that a large amount of people here will testify as serving a valuable purpose and service is to greatly stunt the spiritual growth of others posting here.

I have not personally seen Swami descend to ignornant name-calling and belittlement, such as "Fuck you, you retard!", "Shut the hell up", or etc.. Aren't those the unnecessary nuances that do not allow for stimulating conversation to sprout from that are prohibited by the rules of this forum?

It seems as though certain people here that are not emotionally evolved enough are the only ones who have a problem with Swami and his words, mostly because it is them who are being spiritually challenged by Swami himself. As Swami offers very little hindrance to discussion here, and as his challenges actually provoke more stimulating debate that increases the understanding of those involved here, it is a complete shock and an inexpressible outrage to see him banned for fifteen days. :shocked:

I demand specific examples of where Swami stepped over the line, and I want to hear the opinions of everyone involved in this community. If anything, it is the moderators that are preventing the flow of spiritual conversation here by unnecessarily banning Swami, whether from Swami's lack of presence here, or the more notable controversy that will inevitably mulitply in this forum and consume it.

Of course, you could always use your authority and delete and prohibt any discussion on the matter... I mean, control always does work for the best, right?  :rolleyes:

Oh, and as a form of nonviolent protest, I hereby refrain from posting in this forum for the remainder of Swami's unnecessary and foolish ban, excluding posting involving this specfic issue.  :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3490160 -

Agreed. Let's see the evidence. NO excuses.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490171 -

Calling someone a fool or an idiot is not picking apart their IDEA, it is picking THEM apart.

Alright Tren, BS is BS, and I'm calling you on it.

I just used the Search function to look for all posts in S&P by Swami in the last year that contained either the word FOOL or IDIOT.

You know what I got back?

1. A handful of posts in which Swami used those words self-effacingly (i.e. referring to himself, not anyone else) in an attempt at humor.

2. A few more times where he used the words by way of quoting someone else's post to frame his context.

3. Once to refer to Scott Peterson who, last time I checked, does not post here and so could not have been offended by the post.

Now, what?  :thumbdown:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (12/13/04 02:33 PM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3490179 -

Posts such as:

"you honestly aren't worth debating with. You seem unable to stay on track and avoid personalisms"

are what I'm talking about. I'm at work right now (I also manage to hold up a full-time job, aside from moderating this forum) and so I don't have time to search for more right now.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490188 -

trendal said:
What it comes down to is that Swami knew his words were hurtful/hateful



Exactly HE KNOWS. it seems to me there are two Swamies here. Good Swami and nasty Swami. The good Swami posted several times a quote that a real man is true to himself. Yet nasty Swami does exactly the opposite and trys to humiliate good Swami and others.
Whats important is that he REALISES his 'fault'. I belive he secretly suspects it to be the case but doesn not want to discuss it not only in public but even with himself.
Good Swami must have a chat with nasty Swami and tell him to sod off.



trendal said:
Swami was working towards having people just not post their ideas for fear that they will be torn apart by Swami. This is not acceptible.



We are getting to the bottom of this. He is at war with himself. Real man is true to him self first of all. So start doing so.
Swamster, its not the question wehther miracles can happen. Its That YOU DONT WANT THEM TO HAPPEN. You deny any possibility for something 'spiritual' to happen. And nasty Swami feels that persuading others and adopting his white and black point of view is what others should do.

Anyway :smile:
Nasty Swami is cracking  :crazy2:
He knows that even tho he wont admit to himself.


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
Shroomery MSN club
I'm talking to aliens!
Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras
Hilary Duff!!
:gethigh:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Jalruza]
    #3490199 -

by the way, the reason he feels he has to use insulting technicues to overpower other is once again - because he's cracking.

What we all should do is take it easy. Swami when comes back, he should at least learn to RESPECT others. We're not asking him to belive in aliens now. Not yet anyway. We're all friends, so lets start acting that way.

And i belive 15 days is a childish thing to do. give him a couple of days, anything more not going to make any difference.


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
Shroomery MSN club
I'm talking to aliens!
Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras
Hilary Duff!!
:gethigh:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Jalruza]
    #3490219 -

Ewok said:
[Whats important is that he REALISES his 'fault'. I belive he secretly suspects it to be the case but doesn not want to discuss it not only in public but even with himself.
Good Swami must have a chat with nasty Swami and tell him to sod off.


Yes, I am sure that the person known as Swami is schizophrenic.  :rolleyes:

:lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490225 -

"you honestly aren't worth debating with. You seem unable to stay on track and avoid personalisms"

Yeah, I figured you'd dig that one up.

Here's the direct link for those of you with the objectivity to follow up for yourself:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3464173/an//page//vc/1

Now, let's see...

jiggy posts two links to con-artists' web sites selling plans for a perpetual energy machine for $150, and she ends the opening post with:

"What do ya think?"

Swami makes a few observations, expresses what he thinks of these con-artists, then asks jiggy some salient questions.

jiggy replies with a rant and then this:

"Are you even personally interested in this stuff or are you just bored and nit picking for fun?"

which has nothing to do with the questions or points in Swami's reply and is in no way relevant to the topic at hand.

then this:

"Are you upset because I posted that link on the second law of thermodynamics being broken"

making a personal observation about Swami which is AGAIN irrelevant to the topic at hand.

and then this:

"Big deal-no harm no foul. So you didn't know something."

and AGAIN nothing to do with the topic at hand.

then this:

"Free energy technology is such an exciting topic. What scares you about it swami?"

YET AGAIN personal shit with nothing to do with the topic at hand.

and then this:

"I suppose you would rather discuss archaic religious superstition here."

All this in ONE POST from jiggy to Swami.

In another post in the same thread jiggy says:

Geeeeeez, some of you would follow swami right off a cliff wouldn't you? LOL

It wouldn't even matter if he said that it was good manors to let you all go first. He'd be up there waving down saying bye bye, after all fools die just as quickly as they are born eh?

There is lots more, but I think I've made my point that when Swami finally said:

"you honestly aren't worth debating with. You seem unable to stay on track and avoid personalisms"

I'd call it a statement of fact based on the evidence just made available by jiggy herself, and even stretching my imagination I cannot see how this is even an admonishable offence, let alone justification for a 15 day ban.

Now what?  :mad2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (12/13/04 09:22 AM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3490264 -

Diploid, take it easy dude, i think many S&P members need to get out more, spend far too much time here.


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
Shroomery MSN club
I'm talking to aliens!
Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras
Hilary Duff!!
:gethigh:

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3490380 -

I'll ban myself out of solidarity.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3490524 -

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Don't anyone think I went to the mods. They can tell you I didn't. I have fun with swami. I have grown to understand and appreciate him over time. I was shocked when I heard he was banned.

I beleive if someone is really truly angered or offended by someone here, they should take up there personal problems with them in P.M.

I know fucknuckle thought swami was coming down on him and invited him to chat in PMs and fucknuckle posted that swami refused the invite. What was fucknuckle to do?

I was coming on a little hard with FN myself  until I realised it and then chose to understand him better and backed off.

Diploid, if you have a problem with what I wrote to swami why don't you suggest that I get banned.

I like the role swami plays here overall, ya sometimes he pushes it and so do I but stuff between he and I we are okay with.

For the record, swami and I do get along in our own warped way.

If any of you mods banned him because of that thread, just know, I completely don't feel it was necessary and know it wasn't even wanted by me. If I slip and post stuff here I should know will come under attack, thats my bad. There are plenty of message boards I can discuss other stuff at and still stay here within the confines of whatever flies.

Diploid, that post wasn't put up because I thought people should by the plans. I wanted to discuss free energy technology and general and pt it up as a luanching pad. I didn't know plans were sold on that one. You or swami still couldn't provide proof that the plans do not produce the results they say they will.


I don't know and I don't care because it wasn't about THAT particular invention as much as it was about the inovative minds and ideas out there looking to make free energy technology the wa of the future.

Perhaps, others realised that that is all that post was about and would've enjoyed the discussion had it not been derailed by swami telling me he thinks I like to beleive in magic after I asked what do people think of the site.

He came back and told me what he thought of ME. How did you miss that diploid? However, I don't care. Swami knows I know he thinks I'm a goofy person and we laugh about it in private.

I repeat, I did not go to the mods nor do I feel he deserved a ban over it. Sure, I got personal in that thread and like tren said, he started by telling me what he personal thinks of me and started correcting my use of the phrase "magic shmagic".

I think he gets funny when he resorts to that stuff.

I could've ignored him in that thread and I didn't. It took the two of us to tango and you all know swami and I like to rumba and do the cha cha.

Just let it be known, I did NOT complain to the mods about him.

If I push swamis buttons to the point of getting him banned then maybe I should I leave because I am just as guilty of whatever he is of doing.

I'll ban myself for 15 days too.  :grin:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Edited by gettinjiggywithit (12/13/04 10:34 AM)

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3490552 -

ooops, I just caught a major typo I made. In my last for the record that I did not complain to the mods about him, I wrote did instead of didn't.

I did NOT. They can tell you that.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3490565 -

If any of you mods banned him because of that thread, just know, I completely don't feel it was necessary and know it wasn't even wanted by me.

No, jiggy, it was not that thread that got Swami banned. That was simply the easiest and most recent example I could pull out of memory.

Swami's ban is the result of nearly 5 years of posting. From what I understand, there have been issues with him since before I was a mod of this forum (or even a member of the site). I have spoken to Swami about his posting style on quite a few occaisions in the past. This was not a sudden decision.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490671 -

dude, that's the lamest thing I've read in awhile. you people are drunk with power. :thumbdown:
do you really think swami was contributing to a negative atmosphere here? give me a break trendal.

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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3490672 -

Poor call, mods.  :thumbdown:

It looks to me like if the decision wasn't personal, it was at least a large factor. I had already noticed in the last few weeks one of the S&P mods (who has posted in this thread) mixing it up with Swami much more than usual- actually seeking confrontation. Anyone can do a search and see that this is true.

As for Swami's posting style, I see nothing wrong with it. Sure, feathers get ruffled in a debate, but that's the nature of the beast.

There is a certain user here, let's call him "Great White Shark Man". He has been far worse than Swami in terms of aggressiveness, just blatantly throwing out the crudest insults, belittling people in the worst way..and yet nothing ever happened to him!  :confused:

Ridiculous.

I think the mod(s) who pushed for this ban should take 15 days off themselves, and once they have some emotional distance maybe they can be honest with themselves about why they made this poor call which disrespects our community.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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