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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 7 days
An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami
    #3505502 - 12/15/04 08:32 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

This is not me, these are not my words. I received this from Swami, and he asked that I post it here. These are not my demands, they are his.


Dear Administration,

For me to correct my behavior, I need to understand what I did that was in error. As the administration has had many days and hundreds of posts to present it's case, and to further understanding for me and the community-in-general, I propose the following:

1. A thread in whatever forum is deemed most appropriate and closed to all (for posting not viewing) but myself and one chosen representative of the administration wherein we may view the issue(s) dispassionately and without external "noise".

2. An agreement from the representative to directly respond to my questions in a timely fashion.

3. To respond to certain specific questions with a simple "Yes" or "No" or other one word or very brief answer as directed. This is very important for clarity. There will be no trick questions and no side-stepping when answering.

4. A public viewing of communications between myself and the moderator(s). This cannot be in violation of any decorum as any other members names may be deleted and therefore, no one can get hurt.

5. I get total control of the questioning process until I am satisfied. The questions will be on-topic and fairly limited. Some questions will be posed one at a time until there is a response and others will be posted in a group. Then when I am done, your representative may do the same if he wishes.

I understand that this is private website and I have no leverage to make these "demands". However, I do have faith that those involved are trying to do the right thing, are not fearful of the truth, and in the spirit of community and personal growth, will allow this procedure. Hopefully all involved will learn something.

In spirit,

Swami


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleMOTH
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,359
Loc: In the jungle
Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: Phluck]
    #3505529 - 12/15/04 08:37 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Damn he has a way with words...I felt a stirring in my heart for the man.  :heart:


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: Phluck]
    #3505605 - 12/15/04 08:53 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
I get total control of the questioning process until I am satisfied. The questions will be on-topic and fairly limited. Some questions will be posed one at a time until there is a response and others will be posted in a group. Then when I am done, your representative may do the same if he wishes.






HUm........... I know that I have been a thorn in the side to many who support Swami but can't he read ? I mean the entire thing has been explained quite thoroughly and...........this "I get total control of the questioning process until I am satisfied" Says it all doesn't it ?


I don't fully agree with what decisions were made about him but after seeing this I agree now. :rolleyes:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: Phluck]
    #3505625 - 12/15/04 08:57 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

The glove is thrown.


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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OfflineAnnoA
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Registered: 06/18/99
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Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: Phluck]
    #3505673 - 12/15/04 09:03 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

>I understand that this is private website and I have no leverage to make these "demands".

You are right.
If you have anything to say, feel free to email admin@shroomery.org .
I don't see why you should be treated any different than any other banned user.


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
НơĻ?ĢΉō

Registered: 06/14/00
Posts: 29,281
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Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: Anno]
    #3506232 - 12/15/04 10:38 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

No shit. It's not like he's permabanned.

This has blown way out of proportion.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #3506278 - 12/15/04 10:48 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Randolph Carter said:
No shit. It's not like he's permabanned.

This has blown way out of proportion.




--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: Anno]
    #3506452 - 12/15/04 11:27 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I don't see why you should be treated any different than any other banned user.

I do.

Given the events of the last few days, this seems an exceptional case. Some long-standing members of this community have already chosen to leave over this; more may follow.

In the spirit of good faith, this reasonable request should be granted. If you refuse to have the discussion in the open, at least give us a better reason than "because we don't want to".  :confused:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: Diploid]
    #3506464 - 12/15/04 11:31 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

his ban was not unreasonable (though the duration could be changed)

if you don't agree with me, look at what I posted in firework's thread for my line of reasoning.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: kaiowas]
    #3506496 - 12/15/04 11:40 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

his ban was not unreasonable (though the duration could be changed)

In this case, I'm referring to Swami's request for an open debate of the issue as specified in the opening post to this thread.

Look, I see a solution to this whole thing.

1. As has already been admitted, 15 days was a bit excessive, so cut it down to some compromise length.

2. Split S&P into two forums:

  a. Philosophy forum. No ad hominems, but other than that, no holds bared.

  b. Spirituality forum. Strict rules written out with broad discretion given to the mods to enforce the spirit of the rules. No hard debating.

This should be easy to do given that I saw a Tomato Growing forum appear magically, then just as quickly vanish one dark night here a while back.  :tongue:

This solution makes everyone happy. Swami can come back in a few days and continue as usual, and his intellectual opponents can chose for themselves whether or not they want to tangle with him on any given point.

Everyone is happy, the mods and admins can get back to what they were doing, and this issue finally dies a happy death.

How about it? :mushroom2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (12/15/04 11:47 PM)


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: Diploid]
    #3506564 - 12/15/04 11:54 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"In this case, I'm referring to Swami's request for an open debate of the issue as specified in the opening post to this thread."

in order for this request to even be somewhat sorta (but not really) valid, his ban would need to be unreasonable.

two forums for S&P?? no...no chance of that happening.

the admins and mods are going to keep on doing what they do :wink:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: kaiowas]
    #3506620 - 12/16/04 12:07 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

two forums for S&P?? no...no chance of that happening.

Alright, replace my #2 suggestion above with the following:

Amended #2 suggestion: Create S&P rule number six as follows: If you prefer that your thread be for discussion only with no debate allowed, clearly say so in ALL-CAPS at the top of the opening post.

Example: THIS IS A NO-DEBATE THREAD.

A new gremlin can also so designate these special threads.

Again, this solves *ALL* the problems, Swami comes back in a few days with time-served, the admins can get back to running things, the mods will have clearer guidelines to use in the future, and everything gets back to normal.

Why is there so much resistance to these ideas?  :confused:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (12/16/04 12:14 AM)


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OfflinePsilygirl
cyan goddess
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Registered: 08/28/03
Posts: 4,418
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Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: Diploid]
    #3506674 - 12/16/04 12:18 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

probably because the admins/mods would have to make changes to the BB because of one person.

It seems they'd rather serve the majority instead of conforming to one person's ideals.

I'm not saying I agree/disagree, just pointing it out.


--------------------
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows."


Puget Sound Mycological Society


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: Psilygirl]
    #3506718 - 12/16/04 12:28 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

probably because the admins/mods would have to make changes to the BB because of one person.

This issue is A LOT bigger than just Swami. Several respected and long-standing members of the community have already left over this, several others have decided to abstain from participation in protest, and more may leave before this is over.

This isn't about Swami any more, it's about banning someone who has not broken any rule as evidenced by the lack of evidence provided by the mods to back up their claim that rules were broken.

The mods have even had to resort to inventing a new word, Swamitrolling, to give name to the undefined rules that Swami broke. Do you not see a community-wide problem with this? Banning someone who has not broken any rules?

It seems they'd rather serve the majority instead of conforming to one person's ideals.

Judging by the opinion of the people posting to the most-relevant thread,

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...0&fpart=all

the majority of the community is against the mods' actions. In that thread, 38 out of 43 distinct posters are opposed to the banning. That's a vast majority.  :syringe:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblespudamore
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: Diploid]
    #3506759 - 12/16/04 12:36 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

why not hold a poll?


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: Diploid]
    #3506770 - 12/16/04 12:37 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"This isn't about Swami any more, it's about banning someone who has not broken any rule as evidenced by the lack of evidence provided by the mods to back up their claim that rules were broken"

um...why do my viewpoints get overlooked? I swore I've posted at least three times and so far no one has taken notice. I just posted my reasoning one FW_god's post which are logically backed up.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: kaiowas]
    #3506867 - 12/16/04 01:03 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

why do my viewpoints get overlooked?

Because you haven't provided any evidence to back them up.

The post I think you're referring to says, among other things:

one thing clearly sticks in my mind is when swami told someone they weren't worth debating with.

Did you not read my dissection of the thread in question?

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post3490225

After numerous off-topic and personal comments unrelated to the topic of the thread, Swami finally, justifiably, says:

"you honestly aren't worth debating with. You seem unable to stay on track and avoid personalisms"

A statement of fact, not an insult.

If you, right now, started asking me the following from the thread you're referring to:

What scares you about it

So you didn't know something

Are you upset because I posted that link

I suppose you would rather discuss archaic religious superstition here

and finally:

Geeeeeez, some of you would follow swami right off a cliff wouldn't you? LOL

and

It wouldn't even matter if he said that it was good manors to let you all go first. He'd be up there waving down saying bye bye, after all fools die just as quickly as they are born eh?

then I also would tell you that "you honestly aren't worth debating with. You seem unable to stay on track and avoid personalisms", and it would not be a statement of disrespect or even opinion, but fact based on your string of irrelevancies.

Look, I've made several suggestions that are a reasonable compromise to solve the current problem and to preempt similar problems in the future.

You guys don't seem to want to resolve this. In the end, might makes right, and you guys hold all the cards. I've said my piece.

I'm going to bed.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (12/16/04 01:19 AM)


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InvisibleMOTH
Wild Woman
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,359
Loc: In the jungle
Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: Diploid]
    #3506910 - 12/16/04 01:13 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
two forums for S&P?? no...no chance of that happening.

Amended #2 suggestion: Create S&P rule number six as follows: If you prefer that your thread be for discussion only with no debate allowed, clearly say so in ALL-CAPS at the top of the opening post.

Example: THIS IS A NO-DEBATE THREAD.




I like this idea.  :thumbup:


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
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Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: MOTH]
    #3506931 - 12/16/04 01:18 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
Quote:

Diploid said:
two forums for S&P?? no...no chance of that happening.

Amended #2 suggestion: Create S&P rule number six as follows: If you prefer that your thread be for discussion only with no debate allowed, clearly say so in ALL-CAPS at the top of the opening post.

Example: THIS IS A NO-DEBATE THREAD.




I like this idea.  :thumbup:




yeah this idea would be good...but the thing is, what about on a post by post basis?  or a thread by thread basis?  i think less people would post in general if they had to go in every post and decide if they want it debated or not. 

the idea here isn't to seperate each other, or to stop discussion of ideas.  you can pick apart the ideas, just not the person.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineRoseM
Devil's Advocate
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,265
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Last seen: 1 day, 22 hours
Re: An open letter to Mods/Admins from Swami [Re: kaiowas]
    #3507225 - 12/16/04 02:37 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Kaiowas said,
the idea here isn't to seperate each other, or to stop discussion of ideas. you can pick apart the ideas, just not the person.
___________________________________________________________________

Bingo... I think a lot of people are forgetting that fact.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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