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InvisibleGumby
Fishnologist
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Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 26,656
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3492984 - 12/13/04 05:39 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Philosophers don't belittle people and make them leave the room when they debate, thats the difference.

When you have a member that is runing a forum for other members to the point that it causes them to leave, you can bet your ass that guy is going to be banned.

Just how it works.

The mods look out for the best interest of the community in general. If we piss off a few people in the process, oh well... that's just how it works.

Can't make all the people happy all the time, but you can at least try to make most of the people happy most of the time. Hence banning Swami.

Just FYI: I know you guys will probably continue to gripe and moan about this, but what it all comes down to is he is NOT going to be unbanned untill his 15 days are up. This has already been discussed amongst mods and admins for a long time before he was actually banned. Some were opposed, some were for it, but in the end, the majority supported the ban... so it happened and it stays.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3493048 - 12/13/04 05:50 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I'd just like to say that Spirituality and Philosophy have one common goal: the pursuit of truth. In pursuing truth, one must be prepared to do away with illogical or unrealistic beliefs. In this respect, "hostile debunkers" such as Swami play a vital role in that forum. Perhaps the Swami-haters here are not as committed to truth as they believe themselves to be. Swami has "ripped apart" many of my posts, but did I get offended and whine to the mods? No. I took it for what it was--constructive criticism. It's a sad day for reason and common sense when debunking is considered an offense.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleAsante
Mage
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phluck]
    #3493050 - 12/13/04 05:50 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Debate and competetition are what philosophy was built on. Without scrutiny, it is not philosophy, it is ONLY spirituality.




Phluck, the thing that gets to me is the aggression factor. Just look how many "logic people" fly off the handle. You can't shut off emotion, ity often leads to agression.

It's a Spirituality and Philosophy forum. Without scrutiny the Philosophy would cease and the forum will be like a bird with one wing.

But a little empathy! Feel into peoples beliefs, try to grasp the essence and, because it often is so precious to them, delicately criticise. People who are friendly on other forums sometimes become warhammer-wielding ogres on Spir & Phil. And it does intimidate people.

My reason for that roaring post was because I hold the Shroomery dear, and Spir & Phil. My agenda is harmony, harmony on the forum so that the more timid dare speak out and add their value to us all.

And just look at this thread. It is horribly out of balance. Almost every single post here is aimed at driving the moderators into a trench and keeping them there.

Up to a degree you have to agree with the management. Moderators, even Admins are harshly attacked by a barrage of 200 posts!
You know THEY make it happen.

In a bar I hang out sometimes, everybody is welcome regardless of beliefs. And they pour you a nice brewski or two. But if you start bitching at the management they serve you a nice warm cup of STFU.

The management isn't a brainless gang of morons. There is a lot of debate going on and the outcome is that a 15 day ban was in order.
It is my personal belief that justifications to the others are nice, but not required, especially in a lynching mob like this thread.

Shall we all chill and debate rather then gang up and yell?


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Invisiblespudamore
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: silversoul7]
    #3493062 - 12/13/04 05:52 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In pursuing truth, one must be prepared to do away with illogical or unrealistic beliefs.

the otherway around too, in pursuing the truth is to do away with logical and realistic beleifs aswell.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Gumby]
    #3493072 - 12/13/04 05:54 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)


Philosophers don't belittle people and make them leave the room when they debate, thats the difference.


1. We've failed to see any evidence of Swami belittling people. For all I can tell in all the discussion here, it's entirely fabricated.

and 2. Sometimes people DO leave the room and get frustrated even though they haven't been attacked. Sometimes having your beliefs criticized can feel like a personal attack even when it isn't. This is very common, and I'm sure it happens to all philosophers.

When you have a member that is runing a forum for other members to the point that it causes them to leave, you can bet your ass that guy is going to be banned.

Nobody has presented a decent case that this is what was happening here. Swamis insults are like Iraqi WMDs.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3493074 - 12/13/04 05:54 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

This is just overstated hyperbole.

Wow. Way to back up your opinion. :rolleyes:


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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InvisibleAsante
Mage
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: silversoul7]
    #3493087 - 12/13/04 05:57 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Perhaps the Swami-haters here are not as committed to truth as they believe themselves to be.




Excuse me, but I don't see "Swami-haters" in this thread. I see people who felt hurt by him and people disagreeing with what the majority of the management gave him a 15 days ban for.

I do see very severe aggression against the management and those of like opinion, however.

About Iraqs WMD: prove that Bush consciously lied. Only Bush knows what he did and whether or not he lied he'll say he didn't. Same argument I posted before: very subtle actions that cause unrest in the forum and silences the more timid who come for the Spirituality side or friendly debate.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


Edited by Asante (12/13/04 06:01 PM)


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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3493090 - 12/13/04 05:58 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Here is a recent example Swami's logically infalible posts: In response to EgoTripping's thread about Antony Flew becomming a theist,

Swami said:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1. All people are born atheistic.

2. The guy is old and nearer to facing the end than most. Churches are filled with the elderly.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if the guy deserves getting banned, but IMO his position was weak and predictable and he thought everything he said was unassailable. Despite the fact I think he is wrong about absolutely everything, I haven't read into his nuances deep enough to find any true malicious intent, just stubborness and smugness.



Does this have ANY relevance to the argument at hand??
All this talk, and STILL no one can show where Swami violated S&P rules!

Incredible!


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: zorbman]
    #3493101 - 12/13/04 05:59 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

So it is obvious that Swami's ban wasn't because of his actions, but the mods wanting to change the overal structure of S+P. Very respectable of them


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Asante]
    #3493123 - 12/13/04 06:02 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In a bar I hang out sometimes, everybody is welcome regardless of beliefs. And they pour you a nice brewski or two. But if you start bitching at the management they serve you a nice warm cup of STFU.

It wasn't swami bitching at the management, it's members of the forum bitching about him. Complaints of mysterious nasty behaviour that just doesn't seem to materialize.

Shall we all chill and debate rather then gang up and yell?

That's what I'm trying to do here. I apologize for the jerks who can't keep it in their pants, but obviously they feel like someone has been wronged. I started a post in S&P to discuss why exactly I think he was banned, without directly alluding to the incident, but there are no responses just yet.

As for the aggression, I think it's somewhat necessary. Without some emotional stake in the debates, most of them would never happen. Competition over ideas is probably what fuelled much of philosophy's development over the centuries, it would be foolish not to embrace it to a certain extent.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblespudamore
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: zorbman]
    #3493124 - 12/13/04 06:02 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

if you are just going to post just one post them all so people can decide for themselves


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Gumby]
    #3493134 - 12/13/04 06:03 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Philosophers don't belittle people and make them leave the room when they debate, thats the difference.




I still don't see where he was belittling anyone.

And I still don't understand why people cannot take criticism of their beliefs without seeing it as a personal attack. As open minded as you all claim to be, I'm surprised at this thread.

I will admit, Swami aggravates the hell out of me sometimes too, but if I advocated the banning of everyone who aggravated me...there wouldn't be that many of you left. :\ But with all those people who annoy me, in this forum or any other forum meant for serious discussion, I still read it and value and consider opinions from all sides.

It seems to me that people have varied ideas of what S&P is about. So what is it about? If its not about open discussion...then what? What good is a forum where everyone pats each other on the back for every nugget of supposed wisdom that is imparted? I believe there is a term for that..."wanking it".


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Asante]
    #3493147 - 12/13/04 06:04 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

About Iraqs WMD: prove that Bush consciously lied. Only Bush knows what he did and whether or not he lied he'll say he didn't.

I think you missed my point, it doesn't matter whether or not anyone lied here, what matters is whether or not Swami is guilty of what he was accused.

If he was being such a jerk, where are the posts where he acts like a jerk? They simply don't seem to exist.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Asante]
    #3493148 - 12/13/04 06:04 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Just look how many "logic people" fly off the handle.




I think the term used was "weak, emotionally-oriented individuals" (courtesy of bio).


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: adrug]
    #3493162 - 12/13/04 06:06 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

adrug said:
It seems to me that people have varied ideas of what S&P is about. So what is it about? If its not about open discussion...then what? What good is a forum where everyone pats each other on the back for every nugget of supposed wisdom that is imparted? I believe there is a term for that..."wanking it".




:thumbup:


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3493164 - 12/13/04 06:06 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

if you are just going to post just one post them all so people can decide for themselves

You asked for it.. *zorbman backs up truck full of posts and dumps it on your front door*.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: mycrodot]
    #3493174 - 12/13/04 06:07 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mycrodot said:
Hello everybody, I usually just hang in the backround but I have to chime in here. One of the main reason's I come here is to read Swami's post's in S&P. I may not always agree with him or see things his way but I enjoy reading his threads. I think some people do not like him because he points out the weakness in their arguments.
If fucknuckle is the reason for his ban that is absurd. I won't even read a post by him because of his abrasive,been there done that,I know it all, no exception attitude. Swami is by far > than FUCKNUCKLE. His name says it all!!!!
FREE SWAMI!!!!!




Funny you know so much about my posts when you don't even read them :rolleyes:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Invisiblespudamore
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: zorbman]
    #3493179 - 12/13/04 06:08 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

what i am getting at it is illogical to make such a decision on one post.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Gustavius]
    #3493184 - 12/13/04 06:08 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Look,n00b,just mind your own B.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3493214 - 12/13/04 06:14 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Look,n00b,just mind your own B.




WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE ? :sad:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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