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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490686 - 12/13/04 11:11 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)


I already explained how posting style affects others. This isn't a blog for one person to type whatever they feel like, it is a community forum where, as in real life, your words and actions DO affect those around you. All I ask is that you have some respect and common courtesy for your fellow members.


Wow. Swami has been here for years, posting in the same manner since day 1. You honestly are now going to force him to change the way he posts because of his style ? LOL! This forum is run fine, without mod intervention. Last I checked, the biggest problem here was Mr.Mushrooms and his meddling. Leave it alone.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Offlineoceansize
fuckin' right.

Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 216
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490687 - 12/13/04 11:11 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

So, trendal, did anyone actually complain, or are you just guessing a majority of people here wanted Swami to get banned?

Because from what I see in this thread, the epicenter of Swami's ban, I haven't seen anyone that agreed with it, except those who say "So what, its just a day"


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche



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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: zorbman]
    #3490699 - 12/13/04 11:14 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

who has posted in this thread

It's ok, zorbman, I'm not going to ban you for using my name :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: looner2]
    #3490716 - 12/13/04 11:18 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Wow. Swami has been here for years, posting in the same manner since day 1. You honestly are now going to force him to change the way he posts because of his style ? LOL! This forum is run fine, without mod intervention.

Good point. If he has been doing this( whatever supposedly was against forum rules) for five years, why wait until now? Was his posting style acceptable until it was directed at someone with power here?

Last I checked, the biggest problem here was Mr.Mushrooms and his meddling

Cultivate personal relationships and you can get away with far more crap evidently. This is true in life, and I had hoped this forum was above that, but I guess it's just part of the human condition. Maybe someone can help us get past that.

Oh, I forgot. He was banned.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: oceansize]
    #3490731 - 12/13/04 11:20 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I have had people complain about Swami via PM in the past, yes, and one recently (in the past week). I have had people PM just to say they will never post in the forum again, because of Swami. I have also had people PM and bitch at me for NOT removing Swami from the forum. I have not received a PM about any other member of this forum, past or present.

Its the curse of the mod: damned if you do, damned if you don't :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490738 - 12/13/04 11:21 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think you should ban everyone who posts in PAL as well, to be consistent.


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Vvellum]
    #3490742 - 12/13/04 11:22 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I am not a moderator in that forum, so you'll have to speak to pinky/baby_hitler or one of the PAL crew.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490748 - 12/13/04 11:24 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

It's ok, zorbman, I'm not going to ban you for using my name

Well then you re-earned a little of my respect, but I still think you made a poor call, dude. Yes, I know it wasn't you alone, but I know how politics works. One or two people in power spearhead the thing, and everyone else goes along to avoid rocking the boat. I'm sorry, but that's how I see it.

Anything I say now will just be a rehash of what I've already said, so I will just leave it there unless something new comes out.

Fireworks_god, I think you're on to something:

After today, I will not post here again for fifteen days in protest of this decision.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490749 - 12/13/04 11:25 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think you should. Honestly. I hope you do talk to BH & pinksharkmark.
I bet both of them would laugh at you for banning an PAL regular who debates like Swami (and there are many - moderators included).


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Offlineoceansize
fuckin' right.

Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 216
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490770 - 12/13/04 11:31 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I have had people complain about Swami via PM in the past, yes, and one recently (in the past week). I have had people PM just to say they will never post in the forum again, because of Swami. I have also had people PM and bitch at me for NOT removing Swami from the forum. I have not received a PM about any other member of this forum, past or present.
Quote:



I bet you have immaculate proof that non of these complaints were due to Swami
refuting someone's beliefs (causing a post-traumatic bitching reaction)


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche



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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Vvellum]
    #3490817 - 12/13/04 11:41 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I bet both of them would laugh at you for banning an PAL regular who debates like Swami (and there are many - moderators included).

Actually, they were two of the FIRST to agree with me and ask for Swami's ban :smirk:

Edit: my bad, I went back and checked. It was just BH who agreed that Swami should be banned.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


Edited by trendal (12/13/04 11:54 AM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3490820 - 12/13/04 11:41 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Diploid, if you have a problem with what I wrote to swami why don't you suggest that I get banned.

C'mon jiggy, you know me better than that. I don't want you banned; I don't want anyone banned. I just want people here to get over themselves and realize that this is a forum for vigorously scrutinizing beliefs. This has nothing to do with the person posting the belief.

Attacks on beliefs posted here should be ruthless. If those beliefs fail under that scrutiny, then they suck and the person holding them should reconsider them or think of a way to refute the attacking argument.

If a belief is true, it will come through the scrutiny untouched. If it is suspect or false, that too will become evident as the debate progresses.

Asking:

Free energy technology is such an exciting topic. What scares you about it swami?

does nothing to advance the debate. It doesn't refute any of Swami's statements, it doesn't provide evidence to contradict any of Swami's statements, and it doesn't lead toward any kind of final conclusion to the argument because it doesn't address the argument in any way.

This is not how philosophical debate works. It's how debate in The Pub works and it's also the reason I don't participate there.

You or swami still couldn't provide proof that the plans do not produce the results they say they will.

See, this is part of the problem, jiggy. You don't understand that in philosophical discussion, it is up to the person making the claim to provide evidence that it's true. It is not up to the skeptic to provide evidence that it's not true.

This fundamental lack of understanding of the rules of philosophical debate is a big part of source of the problem.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490883 - 12/13/04 11:54 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I have had people complain about Swami via PM in the past, yes, and one recently (in the past week).

I have also had people PM and bitch at me for NOT removing Swami from the forum. I have not received a PM about any other member of this forum, past or present.


But not one of these cowards will post their complaint publicly. You wanna know why? Because they're full of shit and they know that their complaints will not stand up to the light of truth.

I have had people PM just to say they will never post in the forum again, because of Swami.

Good riddance! The Pub is where they belong anyway.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490917 - 12/13/04 12:02 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Well, that's funny because PAL is full of posts that are at least equal to whatever cherry-picked posts you've dug up by Swami. To be consistent, the moderators wil have to ban a majority of PAL. I dont see BH doing that anytime soon; do you? Because of this, I do not put much stock into BH's supposed endorsement of your lame banning of Swami.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 17 days
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Vvellum]
    #3490942 - 12/13/04 12:07 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

The rules of PA&L differ from the rules of S&P.

The above statement is not to be construed as either agreement or disagreement with what has occurred in Swami's case, it is merely to point out the inappropriateness of conflating what is allowed in one forum with what is allowed in another.


pinky


--------------------


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
    #3490947 - 12/13/04 12:08 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

This is a repeat post from another thread "Anger revisted"

I want to make sure that all of you read it

I was not going to address any of this but I see that it has turn into a great big monster

Brutal logic is not what hurt my feelings. I am way past that lesson. My feelings were hurt by Swami who called me "Brother" more than once in posts and in PM's. Then Swami said somethings to me in public posts that really told me what kind of man he is and what he is capable of and what he really feels. I will give Swami's post that put me past the point of feeling safe and part of a greater community.


SWAMI SAID
Maybe. Child molestors are FORCED to undergo therapy as a part of many programs. To get a lighter sentence or be up for parole, they must participate. In this case, the public confession may merely be a facade and revelatory of no change whatsoever.


Now this post he made within 24 hours of my public confession to growing up sexualy abused, The fact that I was busted with a feloney and let go early etc.... I also was in the middle of confessing and discussing my ping pong battle with God.


Anyway here is a few lines from a large post that I had made only the day before Swamis post.

FUCKNUCKLE SAID
" In fact I came from a very twisted home with abusive parents. I suffered poverty to the highest degree. I was forced into sexual acts with adults. I was forced into drugs at a very young age. I was put in a foster home twice."

"God forgave me and told me that I was not going to spend another day in Jail. Yeah right my bail was set at 75,0000 bucks. Not only did I not spend another day in jail. I never went back. The charges were lowered.etc...."


If you notice in the begining of my post I used the word FORCED a couple of times and this word was important to me while I wrote it.
And was important in Swami post as well. Now this could be debated until the sun comes up that I am reading far to much into this. But I am not. Swami is a master at this type of technique. He has a nasty habit of knowing that 90% of the people are not going to see what he is doing. But 90% of the people he insults and abuses see this because Swami has used this known tech. Swami takes pleasure in this and the fact that most of you seem to not see it or choose to ignore it makes this place no fun. To have Swami insult you anytime he feels like it and denie it because he has good skills is no excuse.

Swami was calling me a liar, a child molester and my confessions and my desire to get feedback as nothing more than fake and weak, with no merit. I'd say he was abusive and extremly insultive.

The truth is I was busted for Drugs and let go because of fouled paperwork, thank God. I went to bible college thru a church long after my law trouble and not some Jail program,Etc.............. I was a very abused Kid who has made a miracules recovery with God and turn his adult life into a life of service and much money. I have alot to give, teach and alot to learn.


I have been called a PUSSY indirectly several times in several threads this past 2 days. That does not bother me in any way. Also I did not ask any Mods to ban Swami. I asked whay he was contuined to be allowed to do this crap. As Trendal has said Swamis's ban was his doing not any one member.

So while Swami is a huge part of this forum he has also been a huge part of pain and judemental assumptions. I have been a closet reader of this forum for 2 years and only in the past 8 months have I started posting. I have not been part of the drama. I can tell you in my experience as a Outside reader Swami is very capable of being NASTY and Mean and finds great pleasure in it. IS this the type behaviour that you will accept ? If it is then maybe my choice to leave it is the right one. I can read from a distance again


I have said my peace and hope all of you grow from it and really try not to keep worshiping Swami and not keep calling the other half of Swami's problems Pussys cowards etc........... That is very child like.

Swami has a real issue to deal with. As do we all.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #3490973 - 12/13/04 12:12 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Good riddance!

As Swami would say...that does not appear to be a very spiritually mature statement. :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3490985 - 12/13/04 12:14 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Swami is the last person I expected to be banned. I find this hard to believe, but people are actually offended by him?

Apparently challenging people's beliefs can cause them to overreact and take the defensive, that's the only reason I can think of why anyone would complain about Swami.


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
    #3491080 - 12/13/04 12:30 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not suprised that people have PM'd you complain about him, or saying that they're never going to return, etc...

Those people are looking for something that S&P is not, and was never meant to be. S&P is not only a place for you to stand on a soap box and preach your ideas, it's a place where everyone can do so, even if they directly contradict the views of others.

Swami, by sheer chance, and perhaps prominance, has become kind of a figurehead for skepticism here, and when someone gets annoyed with skeptics, he's the first guy that comes to mind, and the first guy that gets complained about.

A lot of people here accuse him of being a bitter old crank, or someone who is on the verge of becoming spiritual, but is too weak willed or some other weirdness, and I don't think they have the slightest idea how goofy that sounds, or how far that is from the truth.

I think that a lot of people have genuinely not ever critically analyzed their beliefs, and when someone points out a problem with them, it feels like an attack on themselves.

With all the talk of insults, I've yet to see a single example of what he has done wrong. (Unless you count the quote earlier, which Diploid pointed out doesn't really count)


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: Phred]
    #3491189 - 12/13/04 12:52 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

How exactly are they that different to allow such radically different authoritative decision and action?

PAL:

Quote:

In general I like to keep the flow of information and ideas free in the political forum...but due to the nature of this forum there is bound to be some heated debate.
Here are 2 rules that I would like all of you to observe.

1) NO FLAMING ...if you can't state your case or refute someone elses case without calling them "stupid" or an "idiot"..etc...Then don't bother posting here. This forum is for intelligent debate, not to try to belittle someone that doesn't think like you. THIS WILL BE STRICTLY ENFORCED ... If you have been warned already, you will receive a temporary ban, if you continue to flame you will be banned permanently...choose your words wisely or suffer the consequences.

2) Although not always possible, when quoting a source please provide a link.

That's it..Basically I am looking to create a more tolerant atmosphere in here...it's not too much to ask. There are many different views and beliefs represented in this forum, more so than any other (with the possible exception of the S & P forum) and we need to be able to communicate our points of view clearly without resorting to petty name calling. We are better than that.




S&P:

Quote:

Welcome to the Spirituality and Philosophy forum!
A place where you may express your deepest thoughts within an open community of diverse individuals.
While you post in this forum we ask that you abide by a few simple rules in order to promote the general peace.

1)No Flaming
2)No Baiting
3)Be Respectful
4)Come with an open mind
5)This isn't OTD...keep posts on topic where possible. Off-topic posts will be removed at the mods' discretion.

If you are found to be breaking one of these rules, provoking, insulting, or otherwise disrupting the general harmony and the people of this forum to the discretion of those involved and the moderators.. you will be subject to warning, either public or PM, second time may result in a temporary ban, and third may result in permanent ban, depending on the severity of the scenario. Just think before you post and all will be good


Have a wonderful existence
Peace and Namaste




They basically say the same thing. The PAL bans, as you know, are of chronic flamers and puppets/trolls. Swami is hardly in these categories; he's a longtime cornerstone member who's supposed "offensive" posts are no worse than those that are so common in PAL. So what gives? Why the gross inconsistency?


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