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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,529
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
#3489833 - 12/13/04 05:30 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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swami is an important and irreverent aspect to this place. there is a bit of yin in every yang and vice versa also he represents the human condition of samsara with a kind of religious fervor. there should not be a ban on sharing one's voice especially amidst suffering and alienation.
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spudamore
Stranger

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
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-------------------- suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
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trendal
Jâ™


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
#3489846 - 12/13/04 05:35 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well I just rolled out of bed and need to get ready for work, but I'll try to post our reasons for banning Swami sometime this morning.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Jalruza
Boot Lover


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 1,985
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
#3489861 - 12/13/04 05:43 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Look, the only thing he should do is obbey they rules & show respect to other (which he sometimes forgets).
I still dont know why hes banned, but in the past mods have been acting very macho and taking things personally.
It doesnt matter if the mod doesnt like him personally, if he follows the basic rules he should be let post whatever he desires.
-------------------- Time keeps ticking and running away And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension Too cool to mention well that's the intention But some of us too dame blind to see Jesus is the King Volume I Jesus is the King Volume II Shroomery MSN club I'm talking to aliens! Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras Hilary Duff!!
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Lightningfractal
Nutcase

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
Loc: Heaven and Hell
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
#3489889 - 12/13/04 06:00 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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The LORD hath banned him!!
-------------------- Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all
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blink
eye of horus



Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 11,349
Loc: Geographic Location (Stat...
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
#3489916 - 12/13/04 06:09 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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meh, if it's only one day, then what's all the hubub about?
some people take this website a little too seriously :P
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spudamore
Stranger

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: blink]
#3489939 - 12/13/04 06:20 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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tell that to the people that complain too.
-------------------- suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
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kaiowas
lest we baguette


Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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of course he has every right to be here just like everyone else, but respect towards fellow members is also included. he's been here for five years he really should know better.
again, its not just because he voices his opinion, but how he chooses to do so. he's smart enough and has great linguistic skills to figure out how to say what he needs to say.
i really don't see any of us acting "macho" I rarely do a thing as does trendal shroomism or maia. I think we are pretty liberal about things here.
ewok...who said about taking anything personal?
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!


Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
#3489993 - 12/13/04 06:45 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Guys, it's just for a day. I for one trust trendal's judgement, and will give him the benefit of the doubt before I hear his explanation for the banning. I appreciate Swami's presence here as much as anyone, but a 24-hour ban isn't that bad.
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  "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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spudamore
Stranger

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
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yeah i know, at 1st what i heard was like chinese whispers, but the thing is that people have broken those rules many times, over and over again but why no warnings for them?
-------------------- suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
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trendal
Jâ™


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Actually, it's for 15 days. I'm at work now, and am finishing up a post where I will explain our reasoning behind banning Swami.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Lightningfractal
Nutcase

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
Loc: Heaven and Hell
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
#3490025 - 12/13/04 07:09 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
spudamore said: yeah i know, at 1st what i heard was like chinese whispers, but the thing is that people have broken those rules many times, over and over again but why no warnings for them?
If you got busted would you complain to the judge that everyone else didn't get busted?
Swami will be back in a day, and we can all take the opportunity to learn a lesson in courtesy and respect.
No big deal people.
-------------------- Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all
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spudamore
Stranger

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
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for 15 days now. and no.
-------------------- suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
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kaiowas
lest we baguette


Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
#3490038 - 12/13/04 07:14 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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spud...sometimes we don't catch them. a lot of it has to do with the amount of times one has broken the "rules".
really they aren't "rules" they are guidelines. its when a person purposely breaks these guidelines a lot over a small period of time that a couple of warnings get sent out, and then a ban. you don't see bans often because we are pretty liberal with them (I've yet to ban anyone).
other times spud warnings have been sent out, it just wasn't made public.
as always its on a case by case basis and we do our best to be fair IMHO.
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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trendal
Jâ™


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
#3490039 - 12/13/04 07:14 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well first off, Swami was not banned for the ideas or the viewpoint which he expressed in this forum. If that were the case, there would be a lot of others here ("skeptics", myself included) who would have to be banned. The funny thing is, I actually agree with Swami most of the time.
Swami was not banned for his viewpoint, he was banned for how he expressed his viewpoint. There are many others here who express the same general viewpoint, that of a skeptic, but who do so with much more tact and eloquence. Also know that this decision was not made in a vacuume. It was discussed among not only us S&P mods, but among the Admin and rest of the moderator staff. The final decision, after I spoke to Swami via PM, was to ban him for 15 days. At the end of this time he can return and, if he wishes to stay, change his posting style. Again, this is not about free-speech. There are MANY other people here who express the same general ideas as Swami.
Spirituality is an incredibly personal topic for most people. In the end, it is something we must all approach on our own, and only after we begin to come to a true understanding of our own spirituality can we begin to approach that of others. Because of this we all tend to have our own way of expressing, in words, what spirituality means to us. This leads to miscommunications quite often, which isn't a problem provided the two parties can either come together and discuss their ideas, or leave them unsaid (agreeing to disagree). There is no room for petty name-calling in these discussions, yet this is what Swami has reduced himself to.
Instead of proving his own viewpoint, Swami only tried to knock down others (not necessarily bad) and do so by insulting them or making them feel stupid (necessarily bad). The path to learning is not through insult and slight. People, in general, do not listen to what you say when you say when you say it with obvious intent to anger, hurt, or insult. Swami liked to use the excuse that he couldn't be held accountible for the way others interpreted his words. It's a weak excuse, and when I called him on it, in public, last week he became quite silent. Of course Swami knew how his words COULD be interpreted. Swami is not an idiot. In fact, he is quite intelligent. He knows the English language quite well. He knows how to use it quite well, which means he would have SOME idea of how his words/wording could be interpreted. When I confronted him on this, in private, he didn't deny it. What it comes down to is that Swami knew his words were hurtful/hateful, and chose to continue posting that way. He is now paying the consequences for that action. He knew what those consequences were, long ago, because he has been warned about his posting on more than one occaision by more than one moderator.
I do not think we are limiting free-speech in this forum by banning Swami. On the contrary, I think that by having Swami here and posting as he has been we have alowed free-speech to be stifled. It is not a crime to make a mistake, and certainly not a crime to make a mistake in a post. By making people feel stupid and insulting them for the mistakes they may make in their posts/ideas, Swami was working towards having people just not post their ideas for fear that they will be torn apart by Swami. This is not acceptible.
Please keep any feedback about this decision in THIS thread only. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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spudamore
Stranger

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
#3490053 - 12/13/04 07:18 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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The path to learning is not through insult and slight. People, in general, do not listen to what you say when you say when you say it with obvious intent to anger, hurt, or insult.
but that is apart of the path of learning. its going to happen through all of life wether we like it or not, you can either turn to a deaf ear or take it personally. its about making a choice between the 2.
-------------------- suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
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Lightningfractal
Nutcase

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
Loc: Heaven and Hell
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
#3490069 - 12/13/04 07:26 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
spudamore said: for 15 days now. and no.
OIC. I'll reserve further comment until the real facts come out then.
-------------------- Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: trendal]
#3490096 - 12/13/04 07:35 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Trendal, you know what I see happening here? I see a personal issue between you and Swami and not one valid reason for an admonition, let alone a banning. Your long post justifying this ban makes no sense to me. if he wishes to stay, change his posting style This is a forum for philosophical discussion. Ad hominems aside, which Swami has never used to my knowledge, please tell me what posting style has to do with philosophical discussion? making them feel stupid If someone posts something stupid and someone else calls them on it, WHY IS THAT BAD??? Seems to me a natural filter for stupidity; the next time the poor stupid person is going to post, they'll double check their facts and their logic lest they be rendered stupid once again with a logical refutation of their post. It works great on me! WHY IS THIS BAD??? Swami knew how his words COULD be interpreted Geezzus! So am I now supposed to self-censor my logic just in case it COULD hurt some pussy's feelings. Gawd, what's next, a censor board to screen all our posts? Maybe they can rate them G, R, PG so the delicate audience will not be offended. people just not post their ideas for fear that they will be torn apart Can you take a step back and look at what you're saying for a minute. You are being absurd. You're saying that Swami should not tear apart someone's logic when that logic is susceptible to logical attack. WTF is a philosophy forum for if not exactly that?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Lightningfractal
Nutcase

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
Loc: Heaven and Hell
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
#3490097 - 12/13/04 07:35 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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It appears to be as I suspected, just a time-out to allow Swami time to reflect upon how he interacts and comes accross to others.
I see no harm in that.
I took my ban like a man, and learned from it, as I'm sure Swami will as well...
Now it's up to us to support the mods' rights to make decisions, even if you like Swami, (which I do incidentally), and keep the drama to a minimum.
-------------------- Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all
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trendal
Jâ™


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Remove Swami's Ban [Re: spudamore]
#3490110 - 12/13/04 07:43 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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but that is apart of the path of learning. its going to happen through all of life wether we like it or not, you can either turn to a deaf ear or take it personally. its about making a choice between the 2.
Yes, I do agree for the most part. However that doesn't justify making the insults in the first place. Personally I think all people should learn how to ignore insults and not become angry when someone shoots anger at you...however, again, that does not in any way justify the act of tossing out insults.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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