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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
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god's love vs. god's judgement
    #3456583 - 12/06/04 09:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

there is lots of talk about how god loves us but then there's also talk about how god will judge us.  well I am confused  :confused:

here's my line of thinking that is getting me to this confused state:

the highest form of love is unconditional love.  love without conditions means acceptance.  it means to not judge.

if god really DOES love us, then why does god need to judge?

are we just some side show or entertainment?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
Loc: Heaven and Hell
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: kaiowas]
    #3456690 - 12/06/04 09:51 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Imagine someone who hates his neighbors because of their material belongings, lies and cheats to get rich in business at the expense of poor families who are trying to eat and have a home to live in, who murders the third person in his "love triangle", who cares only of himself and harms anyone who accidentally gets in his way, and who hates God, denies his existance and yet curses him constantly etc. etc.

So because of the unconditional Love of God, God should forget about the plight of the orphans he murdered and upon his death give him everlasting joy, happiness, and contentment?

God's unconditional love means that if you are sorry for the wrongs you have committed and commit yourself to a life where you do good to others and love your God (re-birth), then he will forgive you for your former mis-deeds.

It doesnt mean you can be as big an asshole as you like and he's gonna just act like it never happened when you croak.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: kaiowas]
    #3456712 - 12/06/04 09:56 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

God does not Judge anyone alive or dead. It is a gross misconception.

Man judges himself with his rejection of God and his requirments.

Man has a choice to live for God or not to.

It is not God that cause any pain or any bad thing. It is fully on the shoulders of Men.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
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Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3456760 - 12/06/04 10:08 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

God does not Judge anyone alive or dead. It is a gross misconception.

Man judges himself with his rejection of God and his requirments.





Well, that's like splitting hairs.

Yes we judge ourselves by creating our own conditions (because we are lesser gods), but God requires that we do, so it's really God that made it so that we would be judged when he started this show. Even if we do it ourselves.

If you have repented all your evils, God will remove all evil from you at death. If you have not been sorry about your evil deeds, God will not remove your evil, and you will regret your entire life forever.

This state of being tormented forever by the evils of your life, knowing that you shall never live in peace, never again be happy, never love, never be..

that what hell is. It's regret that burns you forever like a fire.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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Invisiblespudamore
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Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3456793 - 12/06/04 10:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

what if you are meant to experience what it is to be evil or do evil acts in order for you to grow, why would you have to repent what you had to learn and experience in order for souls growth?


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
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Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: spudamore]
    #3456833 - 12/06/04 10:26 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You don't have to do anything.

All I'm saying is that you create your own circumstances.

Paradise is a state of being where there is no evil, which means no sadness, no lying, no betrayals, no murders, well... you know what evil is.

Everyone does something to fuck it up. Everyone has stolen something, or told a lie, or something else that makes them short of paradise conditions within themselves.

Repentance and forgiveness is the mechanism which God set in place to allow weak, fallable human beings to have their mis-deeds removed from them, so that they can be fit for a perfect existance.

Otherwise, you stay dirty, you are unable to comprehend paradise because you are tainted, and you begin kicking yourself in the ass. you begin your downward spiral of regret, your life is hell, and all because of your own choices.

Is it really worth it to not be sorry to your creator for the bad things you have done?


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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Invisibleshroomydan
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Registered: 07/04/04
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Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: spudamore]
    #3456865 - 12/06/04 10:32 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If heaven was full of assholes, then it would not be heaven.

Judgment is necessary to prevent those who choose to hate instead of to love from entering into the community of the blessed and ruining it for everybody else. God does not send anyone to hell, however heaven has a rule, you must love; If you don't love, then it is impossible to exist in heaven which is a state of unconditional love.


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Invisiblespudamore
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Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3456969 - 12/06/04 10:49 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Is it really worth it to not be sorry to your creator for the bad things you have done?

why should one be sorry for something they were meant to experience and learn from in order for souls growth?


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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Offlinedeff
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Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: spudamore]
    #3457127 - 12/06/04 11:13 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

guilt/fear is the bait

when really

paradise is NOW


--------------------



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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: deff]
    #3457245 - 12/06/04 11:30 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
guilt/fear is the bait

when really

paradise is NOW




Guilt and fear are a lie of the Devil and have nothing to do with God.  God has no bait :smile:


God quit fishing now he just eats canned fish :grin:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3457521 - 12/07/04 12:19 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I mean certain groups bait in members based around conditioning them into guilt of their "wrong-doings" through a belief in "evil" and "sins", and furthermore through fear of "eternal damnation" in "hell".

The actual heart of christianity is pure, and I can see it in you, but one must admit that being the largest cult on earth, it is not without a plethora of exceptions :smile:


--------------------



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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: deff]
    #3457654 - 12/07/04 12:48 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Yes exactly that type of Church is of the Devil and has nothing to do with real Love. The intent of many Church's, groups of peoples is MONEY and the advancement of SELF


Jesus himself never spoke in such ways.

Jesus said many times the God always knows the intent of a mans heart. And many people that are close to God are also given the Gift of the Holy Spirit to also know the intent of a Man's heart.


This talk of "Bait" is the exact reason I gave back my robes and walked away from the pulpit.

I was given the gift from God to decern the intent of a Man's heart.

I sometimes wish God would take it back.......... :oogle:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3458242 - 12/07/04 02:58 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

hey fucknuckle
you have a good grasp of how to use faith and belief.
and neat paintings as a signature.
I wish I could see them on a website.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3458251 - 12/07/04 02:59 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
hey fucknuckle
you have a good grasp of how to use faith and belief.
and neat paintings as a signature.
I wish I could see them on a website.





www.ayla-z.com

They are done by a family member :grin:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Registered: 06/24/03
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Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: spudamore]
    #3458672 - 12/07/04 08:32 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

spudamore said:
Is it really worth it to not be sorry to your creator for the bad things you have done?

why should one be sorry for something they were meant to experience and learn from in order for souls growth?




Because maybe being sorry is how you learn humility, another very important lesson for soul growth. :smile:


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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Anonymous

Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3458790 - 12/07/04 10:08 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

prolly wont be back in to check any replies...sorry. ill chime in tho.

Quote:

there is lots of talk about how god loves us but then there's also talk about how god will judge us. well I am confused




ahhh shit, god dayum.  so many perceptions to choose from.  hows this one, that i go by....

god loves us.  and will not judge us.  though there is a judgement, but it is done by ourselves, but through gods eyes(whole life will be analyzed through eyes of unconditional love)


Quote:

here's my line of thinking that is getting me to this confused state:

the highest form of love is unconditional love. love without conditions means acceptance. it means to not judge.

if god really DOES love us, then why does god need to judge?




there are no forms of love, though the ego would like to piss around and make you think otherwise.  there is only unconditional love, and if the love is not without conditions, then it is simply NOT love.


as you awaken further, you will come to realize that you are a part of god, and thus, you are god. we are all god.  different souls of the same one holy spirit.  its actually pretty funny, as you behold your life and see any of your bad actions, you will wish some other compassionate soul around you was judging your life, becuase they would go WAY easier on you than your higherself/the true YOU; unsleeping/unvieled YOU will judge your life.  We are the ultimate judge of our lives, becuase we are the ones who lived it and have to deal with the actions we made.

i really hope you hear me out, because i know what im talking about.

oh yeah, let me say, its very embarrassing to see yourself not showing love; really shameful. but dont live in fear of this eventual outcome when u leave body at death, because the ultimate lesson we learn, is not only unconditional love for others, but for OURSELVES.  the only forgiveness that has to be done, will be on yourselves.  no other soul will hold anything against you, only YOU.

:heart:

edit:  so kotton, if you know so damn much, what happens if we dont forgive ourselves?

well, then that is where "hell" would come in.  youd flee from the light in attempts to hide yourself, wallowing in your own sorrow, being void of the light/love.  that is what hell is, being without the light of god.  but if you can just come to forgive yourself, your always welcome back 'home'. Nobody sends you off but yourself.

but that would really take something HORRIBLE to flee.  becuase while your viewing your lives, you will also understand and realize why you made the choices that you came to make, and by knowing fully your reasons behind your actions, makes it easier to forgive yourself.  I mean, you must absolutely see the whole big picture, in order to make a judgement.(obviously)

arite, thats all. im done. :tongue: :heart:


Edited by Anonymous (12/07/04 10:17 AM)


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: ]
    #3461133 - 12/07/04 08:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Manifest heretic Fucknuckle wrote:

"God does not Judge anyone alive or dead. It is a gross misconception."

What does the infallable, inerrant Word of God plainly declare? see below:

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Hebrews 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Jude1:13
Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Revelation 2:11b He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: fivepointer]
    #3461463 - 12/07/04 09:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I am not sure what this means but I don't think I like it. You may have to clarify it for me."Manifest heretic Fucknuckle wrote:" :confused:


But as to your scriptures. They say nothing the contradicts my statement.

I say it again in a different light for you.


God does not sin. God can not sin. There fore the choices you make are not God's choices, Therefore God does not Judge anyone. There own choices Judge them.

It is a matter of understanding the Love of God. God made the rules and God requires us to make the right choice. But it is our choice to make.


If I was to make two freeways and one was a road to the beach with a safe exit. And I made another freeway that went to know where and ended into a deep crevasse and you would die.


Is it me the caused your death if you choice the freeway to death ?

No it is not but I can say this......... " IF YOU CHOSE THE WRONG ROAD I HAVE MADE A PATH TO YOUR DEATH IF YOU CHOOSE THE ROAD TO THE BEACH YOU WILL HAVE A NICE DAY"

Well now if you take my statement as itself then it would be very easy to say that I have passed a judgment on you. But in fact I love you and have made a good road for you. You have a choice don't you ?


I say it again..... God Judges no one they judge themselves.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Registered: 10/21/04
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Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3461486 - 12/07/04 09:46 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If you believe there is something in the Afterlife outside of Living or Dying, you are simply deriving beliefs from ideas, not Truth.

You liveth, or you liveth not. Know God, know peace. No God, no peace.

A so called proverbial judgement is more of an initiation of the Lovers.

If you believe there is judgement, then you obviously have a standard of what constitutes a sin. And if you gather these standards from any literal source, say, the Bible, then your position is purely fundamentalist and probably a misconception of the great mystery that is spirit source.


--------------------


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: god's love vs. god's judgement [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3461528 - 12/07/04 09:58 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If you mean that I am pulling this idea from a group of teachings then you might be right.

But In fact I am pulling this wisdom and knowledge from God.

The truth is I have a good a deep realationship with God and I talk with him in daily prayer and I find truth in his words.

I am a deep Christian with many complex levels. I claim to hear God's voice and if that bothers you . I am sorry. But this is the truth for me and there fore can not be seen in any other light.

I do fully understand what you are saying though :thumbup:

Your truth is not my truth :smile:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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