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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: ]
    #3427233 -

I think it may have been you that I owe the thanks
for suggesting that book.

I'm trying to get my wife to read it now after we had
a discussion about the mandatory medical coverage
bill that was up here in cali.

it's an easy and illuminating read.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: ]
    #3427764 -

Sounds like horseshit to me:

The first thing that happens, for example, when a law is passed that no one shall be paid less than $50 for a forty-hour week is that no one who is not worth $50 a week to an employer will be employed at all.

So Nike would fire everyone if they had to pay 10 bucks a day minimum wage instead of 1 buck a day?

Of course they wouldn't. They'd simply make do with making an absolutely gigantic profit instead of an astronomical one.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3427805 -

they wouldn't fire everyone, but the size of their labor force would shrink. it's about the rule of diminishing marginal utility. each additional hour of labor purchased is worth a little bit less to the company than the one before it. a company will continue hiring until the wage they have to pay for additional labor is equal to the marginal utility that labor provides. this is how they determine how much labor to buy. you set the price of labor higher, and this point is reached earlier.

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: ]
    #3427875 -

but the size of their labor force would shrink

Why shrink the workforce? There'd still be more than enough swill in the trough for the directors even if they had to pay the minimum wage.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3427896 -

Why shrink the workforce?

because they aren't going to buy labor for more than it is worth to them.

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3427932 -

more than enough is not the american way...maximization is.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: ]
    #3427953 -

because they aren't going to buy labor for more than it is worth to them.

But the minimum wage would still be nothing to them. What else are they going to do? Close the factories where they have to pay a buck fifty a day and...move back to the America where they'd have to pay a real wage?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3427955 -

But the minimum wage would still be nothing to them.

see if you can follow me here: they aren't going to buy labor for more than it is worth to them.

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: ]
    #3427960 -

And paying 2 bucks a day is still worth it to them. The profit margins arn't that tight. Y'follow?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3427987 -

Alex123 said:
but the size of their labor force would shrink

Why shrink the workforce? There'd still be more than enough swill in the trough for the directors even if they had to pay the minimum wage.


If the board of directors has to choose between hiring fewer people or taking a pay cut, which do you think they're more likely to do?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3427990 -

And paying 2 bucks a day is still worth it to them.

and you know this how?

what business school did you attend? when was the last time you viewed nike's accounting records? have you seen their quarterly report? have you ever seen a quarterly report?

here is how it works. for just about everything, the more of it you have, the less useful additional amounts of it are. if i didn't have any forks in my kitchen, it would be very useful to have one so that i could eat. if i were to buy a second fork, it would be a little less useful than the first, but then i could eat with one more person, or not have to do dishes quite as often and that's good... and so on. eventually i'd reach a point where any more forks would be useless to me. after than, they'd even become a liability (nowhere to store them).

let's say that forks cost a dollar. it makes sense to continue buying forks until any additional forks would be worth less to me than a dollar. i'd be willing to pay a dollar for the first fork. probably the second too. maybe i'd buy 10 or so. if forks cost 10 dollars, i'd probably just buy one or two.

it is the same exact situation with labor.

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: ]
    #3427999 -

too many wasted words...

nike should only be in business to break even, that is all.

shareholders and lendors be damned!

profits are sin.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: ]
    #3428037 -

and you know this how?

Because Nike spends $650 million a year just on marketing, nearly 10 times what it would cost the company to double the wages of all its Indonesian workers.

With turnovers of 9 billion dollars and a CEO worth 5.2 billion. You think they're gonna struggle paying $2.50 a day? Be serious.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3428064 -

You think they're gonna struggle paying $2.50 a day? Be serious.

let's say that they've got a factory in indonesia and they are paying a buck an hour. they employ 100 people. the reason that they employ 100 people, and not 50, and not 150, is because at a wage rate of a dollar an hour, that is the most efficient amount of labor to buy. that last 100th person they hired could provide labor worth a dollar an hour to them. the 99th was worth more than a dollar an hour. a 101st person's labor would be less than a dollar an hour. maybe the 90th person they hired could provide labor worth $1.25 an hour to them. if there was a minimum wage of $1.25, they'd hire 90 people. it wouldn't make sense to hire 100, because any additional hiring over 90 people would result in a loss. could the company handle it? sure, probably. are they going to be less efficient for the sake of employing more people? hell no.

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3428720 -

Quote:
Welcome to Pennsyl-fucking-vania. Home of one of the shittiest economies on earth(second only to a few African countries currently embroiled in civil wars).



PA does suck, but check out the economy of northwest Alabama some time. It's not in good shape. Fortunately I've gotten wind of a few jobs here in PA that I should be able to make $12-18/hr.. put a few grand in the bank, go back down to 'bama and finish college. yey.

Yes, college, 4-year college.. chemistry, though. thinking might switch my other major from physics to education though, would like to teach.. but either way, chemistry/physics or chemistry/education, it's a very employable degree.

Quote:
let's say that they've got a factory in indonesia and they are paying a buck an hour. they employ 100 people. the reason that they employ 100 people, and not 50, and not 150, is because at a wage rate of a dollar an hour, that is the most efficient amount of labor to buy. that last 100th person they hired could provide labor worth a dollar an hour to them. the 99th was worth more than a dollar an hour. a 101st person's labor would be less than a dollar an hour. maybe the 90th person they hired could provide labor worth $1.25 an hour to them. if there was a minimum wage of $1.25, they'd hire 90 people. it wouldn't make sense to hire 100, because any additional hiring over 90 people would result in a loss. could the company handle it? sure, probably. are they going to be less efficient for the sake of employing more people? hell no.



That sounds like it makes a lot of sense, until you realize the amount of cash CEOs pull in.
I don't think the most retarded delusional patholigical liar could even try to justify such salaries. They do it because they can, at the expense of the company. Indeed there's a fair number of companies that have been driven into the ground by the selfish salaries of the executives, constantly paying themselves more and more even as the company's profits are going down.

Mush what you're saying makes sense if you're out for the good of the company -- however, many decisions are not based on the good of the company but rather the good of the self. They pay them little because it raises the amount of money they can pay themself.


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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: ]
    #3428737 -

Nike employs 100 people, because 100 people can produce enough shoes to fully saturate Nike's share of the market. Using your economic model if the wage dropped, lets say to 10 cents and hour, Nike could then employ 1000 people. Doesn't really work like that. Nike can only produce a certain number of shoes, because they are only able to saturate the market to a given extent. This is why Nike's marketing divsion is paid so much more then their labor division. The marketing division must convince people that Nike shoes are far superior then any other brand. If the Indonesian wages went up to a dollar twenty five, Nike would still employ 100 workers.

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3428882 -

that isn't how the corporate structure works at all. executives do not set their own salaries and they sure as hell don't get to pocket company capital. that is called embezzlement. executives make their money from dividends and a salary set by a board of directors representing the shareholders of a company. leading a business well will result in more income from each. embezzling will result in neither.

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: DeepDish]
    #3428939 -

the fact that as more shoes are produced they become more difficult to sell is factored into the diminishing marginal utility of hiring more workers to produce more shoes.

if the market was saturated with 100 workers making shoes, of course they wouldn't hire 1000 people, no matter what the wage. as their market share became saturated there would be a very abrubt drop in the marginal utility of making more shoes and buying more labor to do so.

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: ]
    #3430788 -

that isn't how the corporate structure works at all

How many "corporate structures" have you been around?

executives do not set their own salaries

Often they do.

executives make their money from dividends and a salary set by a board of directors representing the shareholders of a company.

It makes sense for the board of directors to award each other enormous salaries. That way when it comes time for your salary increase everyone else awards you an enormous salary too. Anyone who sits on a board of directors and says "You know, I don't want to give you a 155% rise, I'd rather give the workers 0.5%" will soon find himself out in the cold.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Should minimum wage be raised? [Re: ]
    #3430797 -

the fact that as more shoes are produced they become more difficult to sell is factored into the diminishing marginal utility of hiring more workers to produce more shoes.

Mush your arguments are ludicrous. There are shoe companies in america turning profits and paying american workers 10-20 times as much as south east asian workers get paid. There is plenty of room for an increase in wages. The only factor "stopping" it is the simple greed of the directors.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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General Interest > Political Discussion
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