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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Annapurna1]
    #8712011 - 08/01/08 12:38 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

a living wage in this country is about double that amount




False.  Ive lived on less than double that amount my whole life.  I make $10 right now, and can afford luxuries like the internet.  Most of the world lives off of a few dollars worth of food a day, so the idea you need $20 an hour to live is ridiculous.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: snoot]
    #8712133 - 08/01/08 01:06 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Either way its injecting more currency into the market, which means increasing inflation.


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #8712174 - 08/01/08 01:14 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Either way its injecting more currency into the market, which means increasing inflation.



How do you figure an increase in the mandated minimum wage injects more currency into the market?


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
Loc: Hogtown
Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: DieCommie]
    #8712195 - 08/01/08 01:18 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

What would be the logical path for corporations to take if the minimum wage for legal workers does increase? 

Wouldn't they just have more incentive to hire illegal workers who will work for less, and/or ship more jobs overseas?


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Ancalagon]
    #8712247 - 08/01/08 01:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Either way its injecting more currency into the market, which means increasing inflation.



How do you figure an increase in the mandated minimum wage injects more currency into the market?




Hmm, good question, one i cant answer really, but if companies were forced to pay a minimum wage, wouldnt the employee costs be handed down to consumers? Resulting in higher costs for goods...


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian


Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #8712296 - 08/01/08 01:36 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Either way its injecting more currency into the market, which means increasing inflation.



How do you figure an increase in the mandated minimum wage injects more currency into the market?




Hmm, good question, one i cant answer really, but if companies were forced to pay a minimum wage, wouldnt the employee costs be handed down to consumers? Resulting in higher costs for goods...



Even if true, that doesn't account for your earlier claim that it will result in more currency circulating. Altogether, a higher minimum wage will result in some combination of higher prices on final goods, reduced profits, and higher unemployment. All result in a decrease in the living standards of the public at large.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlinezouden
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Ancalagon]
    #8713381 - 08/01/08 05:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I wanted to know how other countries handle their minimum wage. Australia was the first country to bring it in so I had a look there:
Quote:

On 8 July, the Australian Fair Pay Commission handed down an increase of $21.66 per week in the standard Federal Minimum Wage and in all Pay Scales (for employees on 38 hours per week).

Overview of increase for different wage rates:

    * the new Federal Minimum Wage rate will be increased by $0.57 per hour to $14.31 per hour
    * basic periodic rates of pay are increased by $0.57 per hour
    * an increase to the Special Federal Minimum Wage to $14.31 for employees with a disability who can work at full productive capacity
    * juniors, apprentices and trainees receive increases in the same way as the Commission's 2007 decision (e.g. in proportion to full adult rates in the relevant pay scale).

The decision takes effect from the first pay period on or after 1 October 2008.



$14.31 is probably similar to $9.50 when compensating for cost of living.

And no, the Australian economy hasn't collapsed as a a result of unemployed teenagers.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #8713904 - 08/01/08 08:19 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Either way its injecting more currency into the market, which means increasing inflation.




not necessarily...hourly output is so far ahead of wage and operating costs combined (esp at minimum wage) that the increase could be taken out of that margin several times without rolling out the printing press...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineAncalagon
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Annapurna1]
    #8713938 - 08/01/08 08:31 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Either way its injecting more currency into the market, which means increasing inflation.




not necessarily...hourly output is so far ahead of wage and operating costs combined (esp at minimum wage) that the increase could be taken out of that margin several times without rolling out the printing press...



Can you substantiate this claim? I'd like to know how much more the marginal McDonalds worker is producing than is being paid.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Ancalagon]
    #8719257 - 08/03/08 10:51 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

It seems to me like the entire monetary system is working against the middle class that Edwards so desperatly wants to help.  The government should either get rid of this fiat currency bullshit or get rid of our taxes.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8719356 - 08/03/08 11:26 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
The government should either get rid of this fiat currency bullshit or get rid of our taxes.




Or?  :thumbdown:
And? :thumbup:

Federal income tax at least.  It goes hand in hand with the baseless dollar. 

Nothing is more savvy than the creation of artificial wealth for the redistribution of real wealth.  Elegant socialism.


--------------------


Edited by Minstrel (08/03/08 11:34 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Minstrel]
    #8719548 - 08/03/08 12:15 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

are you advocating we rob dick cheney?


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Minstrel]
    #8719938 - 08/03/08 02:09 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Well, clearly we need some form of revenue going to the government for social programs, but what I'm saying is that there's no reason for us to have to pay property tax, income tax, sales tax, etc. when the government could get all the money it will ever need from the inflation tax.  They could, and do, print up as much money as they would need for any project.

Taxation just seems to be present for redistribution of wealth, as you mentioned.

Preferably, I'd rather pay a reasonable amount of my wealth to taxes and not have to deal with a currency that is fully controlled by the govt and the Fed.  As anyone can see, they seem to fuck everything up.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8720039 - 08/03/08 02:45 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

> clearly we need some form of revenue going to the government for social programs

Not if we get rid of social programs.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Seuss]
    #8720114 - 08/03/08 03:09 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

that would be nice... you dont work, you dont eat.

I think we should call the new program Natural Selection


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8720149 - 08/03/08 03:20 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
that would be nice... you dont work, you dont eat.

I think we should call the new program Natural Selection




An oldie but goodie. 

The NY Times had a giant piece about hospitals "renditioning" illegal aliens back to their countries after initially treating them and stabilizing their condition.  Seems the lifelong rehab is quite expensive and the hospitals can't afford to provide it free of charge.  The nice man who wrote the article seemed to dwell on how bad the conditions were at rehab facilities back in the countries they had hired smugglers to get them out of.  That is truly unfortunate.  I think he should devote his entire life to helping pay for just one of these poor unfortunate criminals.  Instead of suggesting my government put a gun to my head and pillage my bank account to pay for it.  The punks already came out ahead in the deal, now they can get what every other unfortunate in the country that they belong in gets.


--------------------


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8720230 - 08/03/08 03:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Instead of suggesting my government put a gun to my head and pillage my bank account to pay for it.





A sign of life! 

:congrats:


--------------------


Edited by Minstrel (08/03/08 03:44 PM)


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Offlinezouden
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8720231 - 08/03/08 03:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

America spends FAR more on defence than it does on social programs. I'd be complaining about my tax dollars being wasted in Iraq first.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Seuss]
    #8720233 - 08/03/08 03:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Not if we get rid of social programs.




I also think that socialism is a terrible system, but do you like having roads to drive on?
Fire departments?
Police departments? (haha, maybe this isn't the best site to ask that question)
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission for regulating nuclear power in the country?

I hate big centralized government, but I do believe that it provides at least some useful services, which need to be subsidized through our taxes.

Quote:

America spends FAR more on defence than it does on social programs. I'd be complaining about my tax dollars being wasted in Iraq first.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:





--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


Edited by pothead_bob (08/03/08 03:46 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8720243 - 08/03/08 03:47 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
Quote:

Not if we get rid of social programs.




I also think that socialism is a terrible system, but do you like having roads to drive on?
Fire departments?
Police departments? 





local tax dollars, lol

Quote:

zouden said:
America spends FAR more on defence than it does on social programs.





'defense' is currently a social program, we're sending bullion of dollars to thin the population and ready it to be a democratic welfare state


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