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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8721021 - 08/03/08 07:10 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I think you're misinformed in thinking Iraq wasn't a sovereign nation.  Just what was it then? 

Protecting our friends?  Ask the 100,000 to 1 million estimated Iraqi civilians that were killed in the Iraq War if we're their friends. 

Quote:

In no country do we have troops against the will of that country.




You're saying Iraq gave us permission to invade?  And I believe the Iraqi prime minister mentioned asking US troops to leave.  So we'll see if your theory holds any water in the coming months.

That's not the only example, as Ecuador never gave us permission to set up shop.

"Other opponents of the U.S. presence note that Ecuador’s Congress never considered or approved the base agreement, as the Ecuadorean Constitution requires."

http://www.fpif.org/briefs/vol9/v9n03latammil.html

The military bases in South America are more there for us to control resources and fight the War on Drugs... not protect the people.  Furthermore, troops stationed in bases aren't subject to local laws.  Don't you think this compromises the sovereignity of the countries where the bases are located?  At least a little imperialistic, I'd say, considering that we aren't playing by their rules when on their land.

Finally, just who does Germany, the UK, Spain, etc. need protecting from?


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8721117 - 08/03/08 07:36 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

All right, folks... this has strayed pretty far afield. Let's get back to the topic --

minimum wage.





Phred


--------------------


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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Phred]
    #8721285 - 08/03/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Iraq was no longer sovereign after the first gulf war.  They were in violation of their surrender agreement and hence had forfeited sovereignty.



How do you dream up this insanity?  This is utter nonsense and is absolutely untrue.  Please provide ANY sort of information that supports your ridiculous claim that Iraq ever surrendered their sovereignty.  In the meantime, I'll provide you, and everybody else here, with the UN resolution detailing the terms of the cease-fire...

UN Resolution 687 & UN Resolution 688

Quote:

Noting that Iraq and Kuwait, as independent sovereign States, signed at Baghdad on 4 October 1963 "Agreed Minutes Between the State of Kuwait and the Republic of Iraq Regarding the Restoration of Friendly Relations, Recognition and Related Matters"


Quote:

Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of Iraq and of all States in the area,



Finally, I'll leave you with a gem of wisdom brought to us by someone who should probably try taking his own advice..

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Just say nothing.  It's better than making shit up.




--------------------


I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: thedefone]
    #8721715 - 08/03/08 09:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

All right, folks... this has strayed pretty far afield. Let's get back to the topic --

minimum wage.





Phred


--------------------


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8724211 - 08/04/08 01:05 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Zappaisgod, I think I've made it pretty clear with several points that at the very least prove that America exhibits some traits of an empire.  Phred is right that we shouldn't be straying so far from the topic at hand in this thread since others wouldn't be able to join in the debate on America's Imperialism.  If you still think America isn't empire-ish then I'm willing to agree to disagree. Otherwise, please start a thread on the topic and PM me and we can continue.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8724862 - 08/04/08 02:58 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

What part of "Let's get back to the topic --" do you not understand?  Pretty lame to toss one last jab out there and then hide behind the moderator.  Next time the moderator asks to get back on topic, don't bait; instead, follow your own advice and start a new thread.

For a second time:
Quote:

Let's get back to the topic --

minimum wage.




--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Seuss]
    #8725688 - 08/04/08 05:56 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Haha, yeah okay. :rolleyes:

Anyways, I think it should be the states that set minimum wage as opposed to the federal government.  As one poster said, minimum wage in rural America isn't the same as in NYC.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8725804 - 08/04/08 06:25 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

An employee has an right to work for whatever he wants, and en employer has an right to offer whatever he wants.  If the government steps in and says Im not allowed to work or offer a low paying job, then the government is denying me my basic human right of choice in employment.


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8725827 - 08/04/08 06:29 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

As one poster said, minimum wage in rural America isn't the same as in NYC.




What does that mean?  Somebody who is wealthy enough to enjoy the luxury of living in NYC has a right to more money than a poor person in the country?  That is absolutely horrible.  Makes me glad poor country people get subsidized with votes and representation to prevent such tyranny of the majority.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8725833 - 08/04/08 06:31 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
Anyways, I think it should be the states that set minimum wage as opposed to the federal government.




the federal government has set a minimum, some states have exceeded and set state minimums


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: DieCommie]
    #8725837 - 08/04/08 06:31 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
and en employer has an right to offer whatever he wants.





unions, lol


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8725845 - 08/04/08 06:33 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Wow, that was some exemplary English on my part...

Anyway, I agree... Unions, lol


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: DieCommie]
    #8725914 - 08/04/08 06:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I wanted to pull an odiumjunkie and correct the whole thing and grade your posts...

anyway in the case of minimums I dont see an issue with it as
while prices are increasing pay rates need to as well otherwise
we're only increasing the profits for these corporations, not
all mind you but by far the vast majority, it's not like with
auto insurance where they made it mandatory and set maximums on
what companies could charge, of course then every company
charged that maximum


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8725938 - 08/04/08 06:53 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

What does that mean?




It means the cost of living is more in NYC than it is in most rural areas.  Obviously, people should get paid higher in NYC than in the sticks. 

Quote:

the federal government has set a minimum, some states have exceeded and set state minimums




And what if the fed sets minimum wage too high (as ridiculous as that sounds) for a rural area?  The state can't override and lower it.  I don't think wages could be one size fits all for the entire country.

If states had the power, the people would also have more power in chosing what they should get paid.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8725952 - 08/04/08 06:56 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Obviously, people should get paid higher in NYC than in the sticks. 




Typical elitism.  Not surprising considering your location...


What your plan boils down to is subsidizing the wealthy NYC residents to maintain their wealth, while allowing rural folks to stay relatively poor.  Travel is ultra cheap now days.  If you cant afford where you live, then you should move.  Nobody has a 'right' to live in an expensive area even though they dont have the cash.


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: DieCommie]
    #8726021 - 08/04/08 07:12 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I live in the "sticks", so your assumption is a mile off.  Elitism... haha.  I guess you think there are no poor people in NYC, either.  They all drive Rolls Royces, right?

Ever heard of Harlem?

I have performed an internship near NYC.  Having a higher wage doesn't make you wealthier when you have to pay $400,000 for a small home on a small lot.

I do see where you're coming from, though, saying pay up or move.  Sort of, let the market decide.  I'm just saying, let the local areas decide what minimum wage should be instead of the federal governemnt.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


Edited by pothead_bob (08/04/08 07:18 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8726477 - 08/04/08 08:47 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
And what if the fed sets minimum wage too high (as ridiculous as that sounds) for a rural area?  The state can't override and lower it.  I don't think wages could be one size fits all for the entire country.




not all of georgia is rural, we have a city called atlanta with
about 5 million people, the state sets the minimum wage at the
same rate the feds do, only problem is it's3x as expensive to
live in atlanta as it is in rural georgia, explain what too high
is, statistically the minimum wage has always been set well
below cost of living and it's increase under the inflation rate

Quote:

If states had the power, the people would also have more power in chosing what they should get paid.




people have a choice now, get an education earn a better living,
want unskilled wages, you dont need education other than
knowledge on how to flip a burger and what makes you believe
that people would have the choice if states had control, I'm
pretty sure it would be as it is now, corporations will have a
greater say than the people as to what the pay will be


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8726526 - 08/04/08 08:54 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
  Having a higher wage doesn't make you wealthier when you have to pay $400,000 for a small home on a small lot.




what you're saying is the average NYC McDonalds employee can afford that $400k house on a postage stamp since there's no difference in the wealth and  once that house is paid for it no longer has a value... are you sure you know what wealth means?

Quote:

I'm just saying, let the local areas decide what minimum wage should be instead of the federal governemnt.





one of the cities near me worked out a deal with walmart and
home depot, neither pay taxes for the first 10 years to the
county or the city, a major source of revene and for some
strange reason they insisted that they put a cap on hourly
employees wages, a couple years ago while most HD employees were
earning $11-$12/hr, the people locally couldnt earn more than $10

yeah, your plan is a sound future to aid in the collapse of the economy


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Offlinezouden
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: DieCommie]
    #8726774 - 08/04/08 09:49 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
An employee has an right to work for whatever he wants, and en employer has an right to offer whatever he wants. 



Agreed. But I'll add a third statement: an employer should offer more than mere subsistence wage, if he can afford to.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: zouden]
    #8726796 - 08/04/08 09:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

...as should the employee do more than just the bare minimum while on the clock, if he is able to.

Bare minimum employees deserve bare minimum wages.


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