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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: DieCommie]
    #8727102 - 08/04/08 11:30 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

bare minimum employees dont deserve a job

I started a job at a sub entry level wage, in a month I was
given a raise, $1/hr, 2 months later I was given another raise
of $2/hr, 3 weeks later I was given $.50/hr, 3 months after that
I received another, in a single year from one employer I
received a total of 9 raises which more than doubled my starting pay.

I dont know bare minimum work but I've worked for people that
knew bare minimum pay and unless the minimum wage increased they
didnt give raises, they didnt give bonuses, they simply wanted
warm bodies to do some work while he built a new house and
purchased a plane on the companies dime

an employer that cant appreciate a dedicated hard working
employee, he deservs the fuckers that take a 10 minute break
ever 20 minutes, why should they care about his welfare if he
isnt concerned with theirs

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8727590 - 08/05/08 04:23 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

As a business owner, my problem with increases to minimum wage is that it boils down to a government mandated raise for my newest/least skilled employees.  Not only do I have to give my lower end staff a raise, but it is a slap in the face to my other employees that don't get a raise (but deserve one based upon their work ethic rather than their economic standing).  In effect, my non-minimum wage employees get an anti-raise; I have to raise prices, as does every other business owner, in order to afford the higher staff salaries, thus non-minimum wage employees are making the same while paying more for goods.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Seuss]
    #8727612 - 08/05/08 04:44 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

That's an interesting perspective. It sounds as if the hardest bit is the change itself.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Seuss]
    #8727619 - 08/05/08 04:47 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

generally when there's an increase in minimum wage, there's
already been several increases in prices, enough so that
purchasing food, fuel and even utilities is becoming a hardship,
exactly how would you expect that newest, least skilled employee
to make it to work each morning if he cant afford the drive, who
hasnt gone up on their pricing in the US at least 3 times in the
last year or made announcements that they would have a 20%
increase due to everyone elses pricing

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8727644 - 08/05/08 05:17 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

> generally when there's an increase in minimum wage, there's already been several increases in prices

So what?  Increase in costs hit all of my employees the same.  Why should congress have the right to mandate pay raises based upon economic standing of my employees rather than the work ethic of my employees?  It boils down to congress buying votes at the expensive of my company!

> exactly how would you expect that newest, least skilled employee to make it to work each morning

The same way as always; hitching a ride with mom or dad.  My minimum wage employees are not here for a career, they are here for a part time job to earn money while getting experience to go along with their education.  Maybe I should start to charge them for the job experience they are gaining?  Seems only fair if I have to pay them more than they are worth.

If somebody is stuck in a minimum-wage job as a career path, then that is their problem, not mine (until congress decides to stick their nose into our affairs).  Why are we equating minimum wage to minimum salary needed to live comfortably?  Nowhere in the US Constitution do I see anything that says, "employers must pay their employees enough to live comfortably".

This should be a state issue, not a federal issue... but then, we get back to congress buying votes at the expense of my company.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Seuss]
    #8727762 - 08/05/08 07:01 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
It boils down to congress buying votes at the expensive of my company!




is the federal government actually enforcing these minimum wage
laws or has it really been left up to the states since 3 states
pay less than, some have no minimum and dont follow federal law
in having employers pay the federal minimum

seems the federal minimum wage is just a suggestion

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8727768 - 08/05/08 07:07 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

In the states with a lower or no minimum wage than the Federal minimum wage, the latter applies.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8727801 - 08/05/08 07:29 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

lower than federal doesnt really mean lower than federal?

Like the Federal wage and hour law, State law often exempts particular occupations or industries from the minimum labor standard generally applied to covered employment.

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8727881 - 08/05/08 08:05 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

average NYC McDonalds employee




No, the average NYC Mcdonalds employee can't afford a $400,000 home... they rent a small box of an apartment for 4 times the price I pay for mine.  How much money do you get back when you leave your apartment? 

You're right when you say that a person that owns a $400,000 home is more wealthy, but how many people do you think actually pay their mortages off before they sell the house?  If your mortage is taking the bulk of your pay every month and then when you sell it you only have $150,000 paid off, you only get that $150,000 and you've lost more to interest servicing the debt.  Then consider that food is more expensive, parking is more expensive, electricity was more expensive when I was there.  I'm just saying that not all NYC residents are rich, and all country folks are dirt poor, which is what it sounded like DieCommie was saying.

Quote:

people have a choice now, get an education




Yeah, because it's that easy considering the cost of getting an education.  And just because you get one doesn't mean that you're going to be rich.  A lot of my friends getting out of college now are only starting at 24k.


Quote:

one of the cities near me worked out a deal with walmart and
home depot, neither pay taxes for the first 10 years to the
county or the city




So what's your point... WalMart is run by a bunch of scumbags, which is why I refuse to shop there.  It's also a reason that the government should be stepping in and making them pay their workers a reasonable wage.

Quote:

what makes you believe
that people would have the choice if states had control




Because there would be a higher constituent-to-representative ratio.  Getting your local government to listen to you is a hell of a lot easier than getting the federal government to listen to you.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
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Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8728060 - 08/05/08 09:09 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
If your mortage is taking the bulk of your pay every month




then you mortgage lender deserves to be failing for allowing
you to enter into a loan in the first place and the borrower
would be an idiot for buying more house than he could afford


Quote:

Yeah, because it's that easy considering the cost of getting an education.  And just because you get one doesn't mean that you're going to be rich.  A lot of my friends getting out of college now are only starting at 24k.




public schools, the taxes are funding them, it's up to the
people attending to take advantage of it, it's up to them to
seek financing for education, there's low interest loans, grants
and other ways of paying for college and there's even trade
schools and community college, princeton isnt the only
institution that provides higher learning

Quote:

So what's your point...




my point is that government works for the big companies,
Chattanooga was to be the home of Coca Cola, the city said "no,
we dont want to be an industrial town" so they went to atlanta
DuPont opened a plant just outside of Chattanooga city limits,
they hired 700 people, the city annexed them, they shut down and
layed off the 700 they just hired, DuPont didnt want to pay the
city taxes, DuPont was annexed back out, they reopened
they bent over for the big corporations and took it in the butt,
most other cities are doing the same, walmart gets tax breaks
for each store they open, no local taxes for 10 years, after the
10 they shut it down and open a new one leaving a vacant building


Quote:

WalMart is run by a bunch of scumbags, which is why I refuse to shop there.  It's also a reason that the government should be stepping in and making them pay their workers a reasonable wage.




I wonder why this hasnt happened yet, does it seem like
corporate interests take the front while the interests of the
people are put to the back until an election year with a shitty
economy and then the token gesture to appease the people is no
more than a small increase in minimum wage that's still far
below the rate of inflation... seems the corporate interest is
in the drivers seat


Quote:


Because there would be a higher constituent-to-representative ratio.  Getting your local government to listen to you is a hell of a lot easier than getting the federal government to listen to you.




lol... and still the same number of people that sit and bitch
and do nothing, how long would the low pay rates last if the
employees organized and walked out, how would the stock holders
view it if they're losing money because of the drop in stock
prices due to a nation wide walkout, how long would you think it
would take to reopen the stores with new employees

it doesnt matter if the state or federal government is in
control of the minimum wage, as it stands the state has the
ability to increase it, why arent most of them already doing it?

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8728120 - 08/05/08 09:36 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

then you mortgage lender deserves to be failing




Haha, of course they do, but they just get bailouts sponsered by the rest of the country.

Quote:

princeton isnt the only
institution that provides higher learning




Public schools are not as cheap as you're making them out to be... at least no in all parts of the country.  And like I said, it's not guarenteed you're going to be making big bucks when you get out of school.  If a person has to pay the bills every month, or has mouths to feed, taking four years to get an education probably won't be on the top of their list.

Quote:

does it seem like
corporate interests take the front




Yes, you're absolutely right and it's because these companies hire lobbyists to go to Washington.  I'm saying when government power is distributed across the nation instead of centralized, it would be harder for companies to manipulate the government.  That's a reason why I say that smaller government leads to more say for the public.

Quote:

as it stands the state has the
ability to increase it, why arent most of them already doing it?




Because people don't take a big enough interest in their government.  I always say that.  People need to talk to their reps and make demands, not just vote them into office and then sit idly by the next 2 or 4 years.

Quote:


how long would the low pay rates last if the
employees organized and walked out




Not long at all, I think.  I wonder if something like this ever happened with Wal-Mart.  But you'd only be able to do this on a local level, most likely, because it would be way to difficult to shut them down nation-wide.  Especially when most of the people working at Wal-Mart are very dependent on their salaries and don't have much in the way of savings.

I don't know if you know this, but Wal-Mart is anti-union and they show propaganda when you're hired giving you reasons why unions are bad.  They're absolute cock-suckers at that establishment. 

I could agree that people should form unions to get things they want, but it only works if all or most people at the workplace want to go along with it.  Then there's the problem when unions get too big, garnish wages, force people to join, and end up getting paid off from companies to keep their mouths shut. 

I've heard that France has tons of protests all the time and I've also heard from French citizens that they lead a very laid back lifestyle.  I feel like if Americans would stop letting their government get away with the shit they get away with, these companies wouldn't be able to have so much authority and people would have better lifestyles.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8728970 - 08/05/08 01:09 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
Public schools are not as cheap as you're making them out to be... at least no in all parts of the country.




paid for through property taxes? I know that's how it's handled
here and everyone that owns even a vacant piece of land pays
property taxes.


Quote:

And like I said, it's not guarenteed you're going to be making big bucks when you get out of school.  If a person has to pay the bills every month, or has mouths to feed, taking four years to get an education probably won't be on the top of their list.




there's no guarantee you'll even get a job when you get out of
school, there's na guarantee your wife wont run off with your
best friend and your bank account leaving you with 3 kids, 2
from her first marriage and there's no guarantee a swat team
wont kick your door in a kill you because they raided the wrong
house, what an education does is increase your chances of better
pay and a decent job


Quote:

Yes, you're absolutely right and it's because these companies hire lobbyists to go to Washington.  I'm saying when government power is distributed across the nation instead of centralized, it would be harder for companies to manipulate the government.  That's a reason why I say that smaller government leads to more say for the public.




except the flaw in that logic is local government is under less
scrutiny, big corporations have a lot more influence over Mr
county commissioner who's net worth is under $500k as opposed to
Mr. Rich Senator who's got $10million in his checking, it takes
much less to broker that tax deal on the local level which is
where it normally happens

Quote:

as it stands the state has the
ability to increase it, why arent most of them already doing it?




Because people don't take a big enough interest in their government.  I always say that.  People need to talk to their reps and make demands, not just vote them into office and then sit idly by the next 2 or 4 years.


Quote:

Quote:


how long would the low pay rates last if the
employees organized and walked out




Not long at all, I think.  I wonder if something like this ever happened with Wal-Mart.  But you'd only be able to do this on a local level, most likely, because it would be way to difficult to shut them down nation-wide.  Especially when most of the people working at Wal-Mart are very dependent on their salaries and don't have much in the way of savings.





that's how they keep you, that's how minimum wage has been
working to keep people from unionizing their work place to get
better benefits and pay, they give you enough that you can show
up for work every day but not enough that you can actually save
or invest towards a retirement, federally mandated minimum wage
is still heavily influenced by big corporations

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8729142 - 08/05/08 01:45 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

paid for through property taxes?




Are we talking public high schools or colleges?  I'm not sure where you're coming from here.  I'm talking public colleges, which the one that I went to was around $12,000 a year or so, but I'm pretty sure they raised that number substantially since I got out.

Quote:

there's no guarantee you'll even get a job when you get out of
school




Yes, precisley.  And because it's not a guarentee, people that have very little or are later on in life and/or have a family probably wouldn't have college as an option if it's going to cost them like $50,000 in addition to all their bills during those 4 years.  This is my whole point where people that have limited skills or no skills should have the ability to make a living wage.  Not necessarily a wage to get rich on, but a living wage.  This is where a minimum wage comes in.  Or unions fighting for better wages, as you said.

Quote:

big corporations have a lot more influence over Mr
county commissioner




How many rich senators are there?  Under 100.  How many county comissioners are there?  I have no idea, but I'm sure many many more than there are senators.  So these big corps will have to pay off a lot more people to do business nationally. 

The point is, the people have to keep on their local officials and state officials so they don't get screwed, as I said.  If your local official is responsible for putting a cap on wages because mega-mart paid him off, then petition him.  Or throw a brick through his window with a threat taped on it at 3 AM.  Whatever.  But do you see what I'm saying?

You could try to keep your senator honest just as you would a state official, but he only gets one vote out of a hundred in the senate.  Then there's the house, which is much bigger.  It's harder to have a say on the national level.

Before I go any further with this, are you saying that the public is more represented, and democracy works better, when the government is centralized instead of smaller and spread out?

Quote:

that's how they keep you, that's how minimum wage has been
working to keep people from unionizing their work place to get
better benefits and pay




This does make sense.  However, considering that Wal-Mart pays like $7 per hour, I can't even imagine how people could make it on that when future savings are left out of the picture.  Especially when it seems like Wal-Mart rarely gives out full-time positions.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8729564 - 08/05/08 03:23 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
Quote:

paid for through property taxes?




Are we talking public high schools or colleges? 




education starts well before college, do shitty through primary
school and highschool and it's not likely you'll see more than
the front doors of a college, regardless theres less expensive
alternatives to get a 2yr degree, get one in criminology and
you've got a guarantee of $36k/year in most locals and earnings
up to $80k/yr in about 10 years

Quote:

  Not necessarily a wage to get rich on, but a living wage.  This is where a minimum wage comes in.  Or unions fighting for better wages, as you said.





minimum wage isnt enough to sustain a family, it's barely enough
to keep one person in shelter and food, if a person cant take
$40 from their paycheck each week to bank then they arent
earning enough, on less than $300/week that's difficult to do
especially in rural areas where there is no public
transportation or larger counties where they've continually
voted out bussing, that adds greater expense because now a car
either with maintenence or payments has to be factored in and
with the addition of madatory insurance it can run from $100/mo
for liability on up to $500/mo for full coverage... where's the
minimum wage paycheck then


Quote:

So these big corps will have to pay off a lot more people to do business nationally. 




$20k payoff to 3-4 county commissioners in a county to sway a
vote, it only takes one man to make a difference in local government


Quote:

The point is, the people have to keep on their local officials and state officials so they don't get screwed, as I said.  If your local official is responsible for putting a cap on wages because mega-mart paid him off, then petition him.




one  of my county commissioners had a suspended license, he
drove 7 years without having it reinstated, he had no insurance
on his car and had a tag from another vehicle on the car, to get
out of the ticket he showed his county ID card, unfortunately he
wasnt in his home county... quite the little criminal he is
people have been more than vocal, demanding that he be dismissed
and guess what... the old boys network runs strong


Quote:

It's harder to have a say on the national level.




one work changes that... organization.

Quote:

are you saying that the public is more represented




I'm saying the public isnt represented on almost any level

Quote:

considering that Wal-Mart pays like $7 per hour, I can't even imagine how people could make it on that when future savings are left out of the picture. 





that's the problem, they cant and if they miss a few days of
work because they're part time and insurance isnt available,
they're fucked, missing 3 days can set them behind 4 months

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8729688 - 08/05/08 04:03 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

education starts well before college, do shitty through primary
school and highschool and it's not likely you'll see more than
the front doors of a college




Agreed, but I wasn't talking about high schools before.

Quote:

minimum wage isnt enough to sustain a family




Agreed, I never said it was enough to support a family - at least not in its current state.  I'm saying that the minimum wage should be a living wage.


Quote:

especially in rural areas where there is no public transportation




Exactly the reason why I said the feds shouldn't be setting minimum wage.  It's not a one-size-fits-all thing.  You brought up a good point about wages being different in rural as opposed to city regions.  I believe I mentioned this, too.  Maybe ontop of the state setting an appropriate wage, the cities should step in and review whether that's acceptable for the city region or not too.  I can go along with using unions, to a point, but I don't think they work in all cases. 

I can't comment on the story about your comissioner, since I don't know all the details, but I was primarily talking about political actions - decisions that politicians make that impact peoples' lives.  This is just an area where I'll agree to disagree with you, since I believe that people are better represented on a state level as opposed to a big centralized level.  That is, of course, if the states are allowed the powers to make decisions on behalf of their citizens.

So, to set the record straight with what we've accomplished in our discussion so far, you're saying:

To let the market decide on what the wage should be and have no minimum wage?

People should go to school if they desire higher wages or form a union?

Wal-Mart is this centurys version of the coal barons?


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8730689 - 08/05/08 07:22 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
Exactly the reason why I said the feds shouldn't be setting minimum wage.  It's not a one-size-fits-all thing.  You brought up a good point about wages being different in rural as opposed to city regions.




obviously the states also set minimums as well, some of those
minimums drop below what the federal mins are, it doesnt matter
what part of a state you live in, if the minimum is 5.35/hr set
by the state it holds true across the state, regardless if you
live in podunk or the metropolis, the difference being is that
in the small town your earnings may go further regarding rent,
insurance and food, in the large cities the rent is normally a
lot higher as is insurance because of risk factors


Quote:

Maybe ontop of the state setting an appropriate wage, the cities should step in and review whether that's acceptable for the city region or not too.




if the major metropolitan areas and the state were to decide on
what equals a fair rate and keep it steady across the state, it
wouldnt be bad for anyone, it would allow those in outlying
areas to do better and those in the cities to get by without
having to worry so much but in most cases there's little
communication and the state follow suit with the feds

Quote:

This is just an area where I'll agree to disagree with you, since I believe that people are better represented on a state level as opposed to a big centralized level.  That is, of course, if the states are allowed the powers to make decisions on behalf of their citizens.




I've seen a dozen recall petitions because of shit like the
story mentioned before and things far worse like using county
money to remodel a home and county inmates doing the labor
not one of those petitions got noticed even with 60k signatures
in a county with 128k people, there's corruption at any level of
government and they help each other most of the time, it's the
old boys network and just working it's self deeper into the system

Quote:

To let the market decide on what the wage should be and have no minimum wage?

People should go to school if they desire higher wages or form a union?

Wal-Mart is this centurys version of the coal barons?




1. which market would decide, the market of labor or the job
market, if it's labor most people want the $60k pay check
if it's the employer, you'd probably be stuck with $3.35/hr
for the rest of your life

2. higher education gives you more marketable skills and
improves your earning potential but you have to seek out the
market where you can best apply your skills, you need to have
drive and ambition in order to reach your goals and when you see
a market that's in desperate need like nursing, it's not a bad
idea to consider that occupation as your earning potential is
even greater when they cant fill the jobs.

unions blow monkey balls but sometimes like in the instance of
walmart, it's not a bad idea, Sam Walton had his employees taken
care of, wasnt the highest paying job but the benefits were good
and the pay wasnt shitty, once he died the corporation was
restructured in order to maximize profits while screwing the
consumer, the vendors and the employees

3. firebomb all walmarts and lets pretend they never happened

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8730967 - 08/05/08 08:19 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

.

Edited by DieCommie (11/14/16 06:53 PM)

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Offlinenumonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!

Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2,500
Loc: A Tree
Last seen: 7 years, 5 days
Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8731066 - 08/05/08 08:42 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
From Wikipedia:

Quote:

An empire (from the Latin "imperium", denoting military command within the ancient Roman government) is a state that extends dominion over populations distinct culturally and ethnically from the culture/ethnicity at the center of power. Scholars still debate about what exactly constitutes an empire, and other definitions may emphasize economic or political factors.

Like other states, an empire maintains its political structure at least partly by coercion. Land-based empires (such as the Mongol Empire or the Achaemenid Persia) tend to extend in a contiguous area; sea-borne empires, also known as thalassocracies (the Athenian, Portuguese and the British empires provide examples), may feature looser structures and more scattered territories.





Okay, let's see:

1. America annexed Texas, which belonged to Mexico.
2. America took California, Nevada, Utah and other states from Mexico after the Mexican-American War.
3. Spain was forced to cede control of Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Phillipines to the US after the Spanish American War.
4. America annexed the Panama Canal Zone in the early 1900's.

And I suppose you're going to say that the US doesn't push our belief system on other parts of the world, either?

Just what is your definition of an empire?




You entirely forgot Hawaii. The queen makes an attempt to rewrite a constitution without influence and provisions by America/European countries. Then we go in to protect the interests of our children's stolen sugar plantations... yoink! Mine now.

America is one long national-identity crisis. Are we Rome? Or Greece? Rome - no, Greece! - I mean Rome... is '300' on DVD yet?



~Monk

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Offlinenumonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!

Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2,500
Loc: A Tree
Last seen: 7 years, 5 days
Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: numonkei]
    #8731103 - 08/05/08 08:51 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:



The market is doing its job right now, and Americans have the highest standards of living in human history because of it.






Right, the market, NOT the technological advances, historical accidents and experiments, or formal regress of historical bigotries and political rule of monarchies, dictatorships, religious groups, or others.

The markets increased our standard of living? We have a league of people in this country who work harder than any other developed country to continue to be disappointed while the proverbial carrot on the stick moves further and further. Many of us, whether you write them off as not worth the paycheck, (which makes a lot of people when you consider that many employers standardize the entire work-routine to ensure employee interchangeability), work just as many hours at more tireless posts than the captains of industry. If most of our citizens actually DO earn enough for the luxuries incurred by the few, there is often no time to enjoy it.

Look at what the hedge-fund managers make, there was a great comparison in the Nation a few issues ago. These people on a bar graph, would extend about 13 feet high, where the highest paid politicians would only be about two inches high, and an average McDonald's worker about .5 of one millimeter.

Funny how these markets have done so much good for us. Maybe I should re-read Milton Friedman, because the Neitzche is simply not as depressing as the newspaper anymore.

I agree entirely with your statement that minimum-wage is a non-issue. It's like trying to fix the patch in the pipe after your house is leveled by a hurricane/tornado/volcano. But markets? They haven't helped our standard of living. If anything, the wealth distribution is now more tilted than at least 500 years of European history, and all the auxiliary benefits that the markets provide are insignificant, if ever seen, by the hardest-working majority.


~Monk

Edited by numonkei (08/05/08 09:00 PM)

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Offlinenumonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!

Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2,500
Loc: A Tree
Last seen: 7 years, 5 days
Re: john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$ [Re: numonkei]
    #8731156 - 08/05/08 09:04 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:



3. firebomb all walmarts and lets pretend they never happened







Firebomb them, but remember the moral... American pressure cookers are just better. :shrug:



~Monk

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