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Onlinedeff
mysticlove
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Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2989171 - 08/11/04 09:26 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I know it's real, because it is percieved. That's as real as anything we'll ever know, including our own definition of 'real'.

I just was trying to explain how our own experience, or reality, is completely unique to our genetic make-up, and therefore very subjective. This means there is no consensus reality besides the common similiarities between most humans' perception. A lot of people use "real" to describe something existing outside of our own consciousness (ie- versus imaginary), which clearly is not the case :smile:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: ferago2]
    #2989403 - 08/11/04 10:37 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

"Saying we're imagining this world, without any backing statements, does nothing to persuade me."
right now im not trying to persuade, im just stating a belief. For a longer, more detailed attempt at explaining myself see the thread: Im back and the lid is blown off

"The thing with dreams... you may not recognize a dream at the time, but when you look back on it, while awake, you certainly realize it was a dream, and furthermore that it was filled with inconsistancies (My house isn't really next store to jurassic park, as one example from a past dream)."

You realize it was a dream in that it  was a different state than waking life. People always misunderstand me on this, Im not saying that Dreams and Waking life are the same thing, im saying they are both equally real, and both internally created. Saying that dreams are inconsistent is not evidence they are not real, it is just a qualitative differance between waking and sleeping dreams.

By the same logic you could say, the grass is not real because it is not blue like the sky (the dream is not real because it is not consistent like waking life)


"Let me put it simply... imagine a primary new color. It's impossible... perhaps there is a real physical world with limits and consistent rules out there. "

nope, nothing whatsoever is consistent, especially colour. Colour, like everything else, exists only as a function of perception. To a dog, the sky is a shade of grey. To you, it is a shade of blue. For a 'colourblind' person (a misleading term) it may be green. For a parrot, as far as we can know, it may be a colour we dont even have a word for.

"If the whole world exists simply in my imagination, how do you explain consensus reality? How are we both imagining this conversation? "

the problem is insisting that their is only one 'true' world. Although damn near everything me and you experience and believe is totally different, as well as the way we experience (and thus we are quite literally 'in different worlds') we are still capable of exchanging information between those worlds.

"I'd also like some proof, or at least reasons, why you think everything we experience is simply imagined. I'm curious why you think that, and what reasons support that. "

again, read 'im back and the lid is blown off' its alot more indepth

Peace
:thumbup:


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Onlinedeff
mysticlove
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2989445 - 08/11/04 10:44 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Yup, you need a common reference between the two very individualized "bubbles" of perception for communication. Because we are all the same species and share a lot of genetic similarities, we are able to communicate on a sufficient enough level. This misleads people into thinking that the realities are actually the same though, which is entirely false.


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Offlinecleaner
Stranger

Registered: 04/02/03
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2990001 - 08/11/04 03:23 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
every single night we dream 3 or 4 dreams that are totally internally created yet just as vivid and detailed as waking life. (the key is remembering)




I have a problem there, its not remembering that bothers me its the state of my dreams, its like in my dreams im constantly wasted, its like cruising waking life on a bottle of hard liquer or DXM, its all messy, very messy. Whys is that happens, and no i dont drink before i go to sleep


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: cleaner]
    #2992196 - 08/12/04 02:19 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

like i say, dreams are like waking life. When we are not aware and lacking control, we go through the dream like drunks, lacking control, clarity and recolection. Lucidity can also be attained however, leading to incredible vividness, recall, and control.

this is true of waking life as well. You can either flow through life unaware and helpless, or you can make it dance to your tune.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2992885 - 08/12/04 04:32 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

"Lucidity can also be attained however, leading to incredible vividness, recall, and control."

Sometimes you can have a lucid dream that remains blurred and nonsensical.. sometimes, you know you are dreaming, but only wish to watch it play out as a delighted observer. I think that's a lot more rewarding than taking active control of what you dream, and it's certainly a lot more restful.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: kaiowas]
    #2994195 - 08/12/04 09:42 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

"which on can you control?"

If they're not one and the same, then I could control both to certain extents. For instance, I can hear a question that my internal reality does not contain the answer to, and then do some research and control my internal reality to realize this answer.

"are they dependant on each other?"

If they're not one and the same, they are dependant upon one another. For external reality to be "controlled" by anything, there has to be a "controller." I would imagine that this "controller" probably has an internal reality with all its external plans laid out. For there to be a "controller," there is most likely an external reality for it to control.

"Which one would you depend on the most for your happiness?"

I can depend on my internal reality much more than external forces, because so many other life-forms have the same amount of control (and some have WAY more..) than I do over this external reality. My internal reality is more under my control than the external IMO, therefore I can depend on it more.

However, those who have more influence over my external world can indeed change my internal world, and already have...


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineDegot846
marshmallow pie

Registered: 07/17/04
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: Strumpling]
    #2994253 - 08/12/04 09:57 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I think some external reality can change the way you view reality altogether.
Do you ever wonder how much of what you percieve is from suggestion? IE: when someone says a cloud looks like something, before you even see it your looking for something, and immediatly notice something that was suggested. Taking this further, our preception can only come from related perception.

How much of your reality is based on your own perception? Sort of like the question; how would you explain the color blue to someone whos been blind all their lives? How much is based on your own thoughts and perception? Can you change your perception to one that has not been suggested to you?


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-Tom


Edited by Degot846 (08/12/04 09:58 AM)


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: Degot846]
    #2994298 - 08/12/04 10:10 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah what I'm saying is that a whole lot of my "external reality" is controlled by other people's "internal realities" expressing themselves.

Just like how I can say "POOPY! POOPY!" That came from my internal reality, but it travelled through both of our external realities and is now a part of YOUR internal reality as well.

This is why people with a lot of control over external reality (ie. governments, religions, Marylin Manson) can make it seem like they're not even external.

Like I was raised Catholic. I'm not a Catholic anymore, but I was raised with a strong sheep-like belief in God. I, for many years, though this was a part of my internal reality. It took a long time for me to realize that it was implanted by other people's internal views, or other people's internal agendas, not really implanted by objective obsarvation of external reality.

This is why I find it hard to separate "external" and "internal" realities, because they mix up with eachother as soon as there is more than one person around, because now there are two separate "internal" realities influencing both the objective world, and the "internal" reality of the other person.

What a fucking mess. Spiderman is God, by the way.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineDegot846
marshmallow pie

Registered: 07/17/04
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: Strumpling]
    #2994324 - 08/12/04 10:21 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

To quote the dude:
" Thats interesting man, thats fucking interesting"

makes you wonder whose puppet you really are huh?

btw: superman would wreck spiderman but thats another thread in itself.


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-Tom


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: Degot846]
    #2994366 - 08/12/04 10:40 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah its difficult to tell where "objectivity" and "collective subjectivity" collide.

Like religions aren't really creating anything in "external reality," but they have a collective subjective that does so much to other people's "internal realities" that this collective of similar subjectivity can seem like an objective reality.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: controlling reality question [Re: Strumpling]
    #2994385 - 08/12/04 10:50 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah its difficult to tell where "objectivity" and "collective subjectivity" collide.

Please elaborate with a specific example.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineDegot846
marshmallow pie

Registered: 07/17/04
Posts: 76
Loc: Sofl
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: Swami]
    #2994435 - 08/12/04 11:18 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

How much of your response to life is your own, and how much of it is something your mimicing indirectly, or directly, all the while thinking its your own unique response? Do you really need an example?


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-Tom


Edited by Degot846 (08/12/04 11:20 AM)


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: Swami]
    #2995739 - 08/12/04 10:25 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

like howabout the definition of a "hot chick."

Ask a random guy on the streets what he thinks makes a woman "really hot."

He will tell you what he's been told. Then he'll go home to his fat ugly wife who he loves more than anything in the world.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineStrangeDays
Bob
Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 160
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: controlling reality question [Re: kaiowas]
    #2996129 - 08/13/04 12:02 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

everyone controls reality whether they know it or not, or whether they like it or not, and we control our internal reality
and we control our external reality. I believe the external
reality is dependant upon the internal reality. and I believe that
all my thoughts, feeling and emotions will directly affect
the experiences and situations which play out in my daily life.
take a minute and feel your self, and focus more on feeling
the inside of your body, especially in the solar plexus. This feeling is what will shape your external reality, you are always 'feeling' and say for instance I was feeling happy, maybe I would see another happy person and I would smile and say 'hi,' and they would smile and say "hi" and maybe it would be the start of something great. On the other hand, if i was unhappy, maybe I would see another unhappy person, decide to say 'hi'.. maybe they would say 'hi', and maybe we too would talk and become friends those examples are basic examples of the law of attraction. and we can see this law of attraction everywhere Do you ever see 1 blade of grass growing by itself? No, usually you see at least a few together.. but most of the time you see millions together.. clouds are only clouds because there is alot of the same
stuff that makes the cloud in an area.. same thing with countries and cities(humans).. same thing with flowers and plants and animals..
It's the rich person that get's richer and the poor person that gets poorer.. and you see if I was that poor person I would try to cultivate a feeling of being rich.. even though everything around me would disagree.. I would think thoughts
that made me feel like I was rich, I would fantasize about it, I would write about it.. and I would do this on a daily basis.. and I would start feeling rich, I would start feeling that I am
an abundant person, I would start seeing richness and abundance .. maybe after some time of practicing feeling rich I would be on the street one day with this feeling emanating from me and well the law of attraction would do what it does
and I wouldn't be poor for long.


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OfflineNorthernsoul
Your Reality

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 2,290
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: kaiowas]
    #2996257 - 08/13/04 12:32 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
i have seen here a buch of times here in the past week about controlling reality.. what does this exactly mean?

now when I think of reality, I think of two distinct versions. one would be the enternal reality, and one would be the internal one.

which on can you control?

are the dependant on each other?

which one would you depend on the most for your happiness?





Depends on which one you allow yourself to depend on, thats if you allow dependance in the first place.

What you experience as "reality"' comes mostly from internal (not to mention controlable) reactions to the outer reality that is not controlable (even though we try so hard to control it).

But if you belive neither, you are in the most control.


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Onlinedeff
mysticlove
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: Northernsoul]
    #2996286 - 08/13/04 12:39 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

There is no such thing as a level of control. By existing, we are equally in control as anything else, despite our own perceptual and subjective measuring.


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