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Invisiblekaiowas
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controlling reality question
    #2986733 - 08/10/04 05:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i have seen here a buch of times here in the past week about controlling reality.. what does this exactly mean?

now when I think of reality, I think of two distinct versions. one would be the enternal reality, and one would be the internal one.

which on can you control?

are the dependant on each other?

which one would you depend on the most for your happiness?


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: kaiowas]
    #2986751 - 08/10/04 05:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

imo, the 'external' reality is the collective consciousness..

The reality you control is YOUR reality, the way you choose to perceive things, the thoughts you choose to make, the actions you choose to take. All these things effect your reality. That is your 'internal' reality. How you see the world.

Now I think that to a certain extent, you can control the 'external' reality, if your reality influences or rubs off on others.

But ultimately, your reality is in your own hands. And you create that reality by your thoughts and actions.

Are they dependant on one another? I would say like everything, they are certainly connected... but not dependant.

Without a doubt I would choose the 'internal' reality for my happiness. For I cannot control the 'collective' reality, but I can control my own, and hope others do the same.


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: kaiowas]
    #2987015 - 08/10/04 06:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
i have seen here a buch of times here in the past week about controlling reality.. what does this exactly mean?

now when I think of reality, I think of two distinct versions.  one would be the enternal reality, and one would be the internal one.




Right, there are many realities in fact.  There's mine, yours, animals etc.  Then there is the reality that all subsequent realities depend on and are within.  Our realities are a distorted version of reality.

Quote:

which on can you control?




To master your own inner world is a skill in itself.  Most people can think and visualize, this is a part of it.

Now, the mind is restless and unbridled.  Something that I grew up with is not being able to slow my mind down.  If I immagined a girl jumping rope, I couldn't get it to stop.  It would continue at my frustration that I couldn't get the repeating vision out of my head.  You can master this inner world, but it takes practice and training is helpful.

I am studying and practicing my will over the world around me at this moment and I am positive that anything is possible. :smile:  I have full confidance I will make progress.

http://www.psipog.net/articles.php?cat=101


Quote:

are the dependant on each other?




Our reality is independant of the real reality, however our realities are subsequently based on our jaded glimpse of the real reality.  I don't think real reality depends on our realities at all. 

Our inner reality is based on what we can sence and anything outside of that which exsists in our mind is possible with immagination.  The immagination is part of the wildness of the mind in that the mind can go beyond the confines of the external reality with it. 

Anybody can imagine how immagination is a powerful tool.

Our immaginations make it possible for new things to be introduced into the real reality but more readily into the realities of others which are adapted to be like sponges.

Our realities are like trickles of the real reality.

Quote:

which one would you depend on the most for your happiness?




Your inner reality is the source of your emotions.  Emotions radiate and moods can pass from person to person.  Whether the exchange of emotion occures is in words, pherimones or "psychic energy;"  it does happen.  How effected by your outer world depends on the intensity level of the stimulus and you're natural responce (which depends on genes, psych, wealth, anything about you, really).


Edited by MAGnum (08/10/04 06:26 PM)


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: MAGnum]
    #2987189 - 08/10/04 06:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

soft determinism

www.dictionary.com

do you decide who your parents are?


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: BleaK]
    #2987812 - 08/10/04 08:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well see my whole big post was about this. In order to control external reality you must realize that it is internally created. That said, both what we think of as internal and external reality can be easily controlled, even without a life shattering revelation.

Internal reality, the world of thoughts and emotions, can certainly be controlled. Whenever i find myself feeling angry or depressed i stop, say 'my life is short, and im not wasting it being unhappy' than i refocus my attention on something that makes me glad. Thoughts to can be analyzed and controlled.

As for external reality, it can be controlled as easily as picking up a ball and throwing it. You decide something in your mind and then you impose it on the outside world. The DEGREE of control however varies , depending on the cosmology or paradigm your working in.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: kaiowas]
    #2988005 - 08/10/04 09:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think there is an external. External is only an internal idea, as our whole reality is internal (based around our unique perception).


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Offlineferago2
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: deff]
    #2988151 - 08/10/04 10:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What causes our external ideas then? Try as hard as you can, you can't simply imagine a world as detailed as we experience every day.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: BleaK]
    #2988234 - 08/10/04 10:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
do you decide who your parents are?




That's debatable.. some might say that a soul chooses their parents based on the type of lessons they need to learn, and which couples who have conceived would be best suited for that mission.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: Shroomism]
    #2988302 - 08/10/04 10:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"What causes our external ideas then? Try as hard as you can, you can't simply imagine a world as detailed as we experience every day. "

i dont think ive ever disagreed so strongly (in the last few weeks anyways) with a single sentance.

Firstly, we dont have to 'try' at all, because we are 'imagining' this world already. Secondly, every single night we dream 3 or 4 dreams that are totally internally created yet just as vivid and detailed as waking life. (the key is remembering)


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Offlineferago2
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2988447 - 08/10/04 10:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
"What causes our external ideas then? Try as hard as you can, you can't simply imagine a world as detailed as we experience every day. "

i dont think ive ever disagreed so strongly (in the last few weeks anyways) with a single sentance.

Firstly, we dont have to 'try' at all, because we are 'imagining' this world already. Secondly, every single night we dream 3 or 4 dreams that are totally internally created yet just as vivid and detailed as waking life. (the key is remembering)




Saying we're imagining this world, without any backing statements, does nothing to persuade me. The thing with dreams... you may not recognize a dream at the time, but when you look back on it, while awake, you certainly realize it was a dream, and furthermore that it was filled with inconsistancies (My house isn't really next store to jurassic park, as one example from a past dream).

Let me put it simply... imagine a primary new color. It's impossible... perhaps there is a real physical world with limits and consistent rules out there.

If the whole world exists simply in my imagination, how do you explain consensus reality? How are we both imagining this conversation?

I'd also like some proof, or at least reasons, why you think everything we experience is simply imagined. I'm curious why you think that, and what reasons support that.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: kaiowas]
    #2988486 - 08/10/04 11:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

kaiowas writes:

now when I think of reality, I think of two distinct versions. one would be the enternal reality, and one would be the internal one.

This boils down to the most fundamental of all philosophical premises in the discipline of metaphysics -- primacy of existence or primacy of consciousness. The acceptance of one or the other is the very first and most fundamental step required to build a philosophy.

The former premise accepts as axiomatic (based on sensory evidence) that reality (the observable universe) exists and would continue to exist regardless of whether there were any conscious entities around to apprehend it.

The latter premise accepts as axiomatic (while rejecting sensory input) that there is no such thing as an independent reality -- that if there were no consciousness there would be nothing else either, just blankness.

Since the second premise (primacy of consciousness) philosophically is essentially identical to solipsism, I have found there is no point in trying to hold discussions with those who believe in primacy of consciousness. What's the point? I'm just a figment of their imagination anyway.

pinky


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Offlineferago2
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: Phred]
    #2988568 - 08/10/04 11:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Heh, way to go bringing in all the thought that's been put into this stuff. It's good to remember that great minds have been discussing these ideas for centuries and that they're not unique to the internet or to drug use. Shame it's impossible to argue with solipsists though, but there are a few points you can make. Lemme think about it and see what I can come up with.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: ferago2]
    #2988679 - 08/10/04 11:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"If the whole world exists simply in my imagination, how do you explain consensus reality? How are we both imagining this conversation?"

You don't know that. Consensus reality is the biggest assumption you can make :smile:

"I'd also like some proof, or at least reasons, why you think everything we experience is simply imagined. I'm curious why you think that, and what reasons support that."

This entire experience is internally created. While you may seek for external proof, you are really just changing your internal perception. Think of this for a second. Everything you know as true does not *actually* exist. Colours exist only as our perception to the light waves. Sounds are our perception of air vibrations. These are not real, and that's the proof. A radio picks up radio waves that are already flowing through the air whether or not a radio is present. It "converts" these to sound waves, our ears convert those to a neurological signal, and our brains create the perception of the sound of the radio. So what's real?

The reason for consensus reality is that our perceptions overlap. We are all very similar considering we are all humans. Our common human perceptions, such as "external" senses, are what most people refer to as consensus reality. That is not objective reality though.


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Edited by deff (08/10/04 11:44 PM)


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Offlineferago2
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: deff]
    #2988688 - 08/10/04 11:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't claim that we don't perceive things in certain ways... we have to translate the outside world to the language of our brains somehow. Even if we see light as "light" and not as vibrations of energy at a certain frequency, that doesn't mean the vibration isn't there, only that our way of perceiving it is determined by our sense apperati.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: ferago2]
    #2988713 - 08/10/04 11:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, so your idea of an external reality would therefore be impossible for any subjective being to percieve. In which case I agree. Although this brings about the issue of perception=existance.


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: ferago2]
    #2988729 - 08/10/04 11:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Just because you are sencing it doesn't neccessarilly prove exsistance either.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: MAGnum]
    #2988734 - 08/10/04 11:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Existence an undefinable word. Or atleast I've yet to hear a good attempt at it.


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Offlineferago2
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: deff]
    #2988760 - 08/11/04 12:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well, I would say that not _all_ observations are subjective. There are different types, maybe sense experience is one with subjective tendancies, because of the differences of function in the psychology and physiology between people, but there is certainly the ability to draw objective conclusions about the nature of the real world. I can be certain that I am typing on my computer now and it's not just my subjective perception that says I am. etc


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Offlinedeff
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: ferago2]
    #2988776 - 08/11/04 12:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Think outside of just human perception. Different species have larger differences between their perceptions. Therefore, it is undoubtably subjective.

One can get lost in trying to escape subjective reality, it's no fun.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: controlling reality question [Re: ferago2]
    #2989153 - 08/11/04 02:21 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

A radio picks up radio waves that are already flowing through the air whether or not a radio is present. It "converts" these to sound waves, our ears convert those to a neurological signal, and our brains create the perception of the sound of the radio. So what's real?





Well, dominoes are real.

All you described can be summed up as just a crazy line of dominoes tipping over, and each domino along the way is quite real.

There's no magic involved in hearing or seeing something, it's chemical and electrical organic machinery responding to stimuli. hehe.. stimuli.


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