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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Fire Walking and Mind Control
    #536502 - 01/31/02 02:24 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

A few years back, a friend invited me to attend a firewalking seminar with him. After the walk, many in the crowd were ecstatic. Ever the party-basher, Swami explained the laws of conductivity and insulation. He got the standard reception much like the deaf ears on this forum.

Now the Swam does not do this to be a kill-joy, but because he hates scammers. These people paid some $250+ for this three-hour "life-changing" event.

So in usual fashion, I went into the house and got a panful of scalding hot tap water. I then invited any of the participants to use their new-found mind control and submerge their hand in the water for 10 seconds. Now I am not a sadist. People made claims and I wanted to check them out.

Naturally the event organizers knew what I was doing and were extremely pissed. They turned down my request for a demonstration with a lot of double-speak (shroomism would have been proud of their rhethoric) and tried to disuade the students from participating.

When I stated that the water was "only" around 160 F and the coals were reportedly 1500 F, that it should be a walk-in-the-park (or a walk-in-the-coals), I got 3 suckers, er, volunteers. Two did their mantra and focusing ritual and stuck their hand in the quickly cooling water and removed them almost instantly. One fool despite extreme pain (you should have seen his face - it was machismo and not mind control), left it in for about 8 seconds and had major blistering and serious second-degree burns.

As per usual I rested my case.

Ok, now let the flame-war (pun intended) begin!


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (01/31/02 09:39 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Fire Walking and Mind COntrol [Re: Swami]
    #536524 - 01/31/02 02:58 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

You like chaos don't you?

You trouble maker you


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Anonymous

Re: Fire Walking and Mind COntrol [Re: Swami]
    #536526 - 01/31/02 03:00 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

WHat of tibetan monks that levitate while in a meditative state or melt snow ten feet around them by merely focusing on their "inner sun"?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Fire Walking and Mind COntrol [Re: ]
    #536532 - 01/31/02 03:18 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

You like chaos don't you?
Please read again. I like saving people money from scammers making false claims.

You trouble maker you
Only to the extent of exposing lies and fraud.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Fire Walking and Mind COntrol [Re: ]
    #536533 - 01/31/02 03:22 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

WHat of tibetan monks that levitate while in a meditative state or melt snow ten feet around them by merely focusing on their "inner sun"?
What about them? They aren't here in California for me to withness and debunk. But when they do come, I will take them up to Lake Tahoe or Big Bear and put their claims to the test and give a full report.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinegribochek
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Registered: 04/19/99
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Re: Fire Walking and Mind Control [Re: Swami]
    #536740 - 01/31/02 11:30 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Swamiji-san, grib is curious. Would you mind relating to me the particulars of the fire-walking "techniques" they used and your explanation for them, and why that worked for coals and not for hot water? Thank you.

One thing I forgot to mention on the shroom-miracles thread is that while on mushrooms I had several occations when I picked up a red-hot burning coal from a camp-fire and had it in my bare hand for several seconds without any appearent damage afterwards. You saying I couldn't have done it with hot water?

-- Grib.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Fire Walking and Mind Control [Re: gribochek]
    #537436 - 02/01/02 02:31 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Swamiji-san, grib is curious. Would you mind relating to me the particulars of the fire-walking "techniques" they used and your explanation for them, and why that worked for coals and not for hot water? Thank you.
The techniques were reminiscent of the "New Age" stuff spouted here. There was a lot of double-speak about subjective vs. objective reality, belief systems and visualization. The participants were to believe that they were protected and were to visualize walking on cool moss. They were directed to not look down. The average firewalk lasted less than 5 seconds. If it really worked, why not stand there for a while?

One thing I forgot to mention on the shroom-miracles thread is that while on {b]mushrooms I had several occations when I picked up a red-hot burning coal from a camp-fire and had it in my bare hand for several seconds without any appearent damage afterwards. You saying I couldn't have done it with hot water?
I will not say what you can or cannot do, but I think that you answered your own question. You held the coal for several seconds, why not several minutes? The answer is thermal conductivity. The ash on the coal has a low thermal conductivity and will protect against the intense heat for a short period of time, much like a potholder will protect against high heat when removing a pan from the oven. Water conducts heat very well and will transfer it's energy to you in very short order. There is also the amount of surface contact. Submersing your hand puts every part of it in 100% contact with a highly conductive medium. Holding a coal only puts a small surface area in contact with a low conductivty surface.

As usual, no big mystery.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineAbstractSoul
member

Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 172
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Re: Fire Walking and Mind Control [Re: Swami]
    #537492 - 02/01/02 04:06 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

i would just like to say: you roc swami.


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house is a spiritual thing
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Invisiblepsy_trek
Stranger
Registered: 05/02/01
Posts: 32
Re: Fire Walking and Mind Control *DELETED* [Re: Swami]
    #537498 - 02/01/02 04:30 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by psy_trek

Reason for deletion: A bore.



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Offlinewintertime
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Registered: 07/06/00
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Re: Fire Walking and Mind Control [Re: psy_trek]
    #537526 - 02/01/02 06:25 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

i see how mind control could be used to block out pain, but how can mind control stop burning? It is external to the mind and has no relationship with it.

I just don't get the concept of mind over matter, all the mind is is an piece of flesh in your body. I don't think consciousness should have anything to do with this "ability", so can animals do it? *shrug*.. fill me in you crazy people :smile:


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Offlinegribochek
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Re: Fire Walking and Mind Control [Re: Swami]
    #538113 - 02/01/02 10:06 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I actually happen to agree with you with regards to my handling of the coal. But listen, I was handling it very carefully with tips of my fingers. Mushroom intoxication caused me to loose fear and gain feeling, so I knew precisely when I should put it down before I get burned, and that, indeed, happens to be much later then sober people think, as you say "no miracle here". But walking! That puts your whole weight on the contact area, it would actually smash the coal, exposing the hot parts from under the protective layer. And to be completely fair, I must ask you, knowing all that, have _you_ tried walking on them?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Fire Walking and Mind Control [Re: gribochek]
    #538132 - 02/01/02 10:58 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

That puts your whole weight on the contact area, it would actually smash the coal, exposing the hot parts from under the protective layer.
One's weight compresses the ash, but it is still present. Note that the participants walk "briskly" across the coals minimizing their exposure. Each time you lift your foot, it gets a chance to cool before the next contact.

And to be completely fair, I must ask you, knowing all that, have _you_ tried walking on them?
No, I did not. And despite popular myth, most people get some minor blistering.The seminar gurus know what type of wood to burn to get the coolest ash, how long to bake the coals to get an impressive amount of heat, while constructing a deep ash layer, and frequently rake the coals to ensure that there is an even distribution of ash and hence, few hot spots.

Without these precautions, and sometimes with them, it IS possible to get severely burned. Of course, the presenters have an easy out. If you get burned, you didn't have enough faith.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/05/00
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Re: Fire Walking and Mind Control [Re: Swami]
    #538151 - 02/01/02 11:23 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Me and some of my friends would play a game where we would hold a lighter underneath our fingers and time it to see who could hold it the longest. I always won with a record of 8 seconds. I had blisters. Now though one of my fingers lost nerve cells and hot/cold sensors, so I can hold it under there longer.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Fire Walking and Mind Control [Re: nugsarenice]
    #538160 - 02/01/02 11:36 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I am very proud of you. You da man!

Can you hold it until the skin sizzles and a feint wisp of smoke curls up? I like mine well done please...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Fire Walking and Mind Control [Re: Swami]
    #538709 - 02/02/02 05:47 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

No, I think burns are one of the most painful injuries there are. So 8 seconds is it.


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Fire Walking and Mind Control [Re: nugsarenice]
    #538710 - 02/02/02 05:48 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

If anyone can beat that please post. Fuck firewalking. You have to go and build a huge fire and shit. Whereever you are going to do that.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Fire Walking and Mind Control [Re: gribochek]
    #538728 - 02/02/02 06:12 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

have _you_ tried walking on them?
I recant my previous response. I did once, but not at that seminar. I was camping out on a giant, granite outcropping (a la The Flinstones) overlooking the Merced River near Yosemite.

It was spring and the water has cold, high, fast and very dangerous. We had a fire going all night and it was almost out in the morning. I went into the woods and gathered up an armload of wood. As I walked barefoot back to the campsite, I inadvertently stepped on one of round rocks that formed the firepit. It was still extremely hot. I put my full weight on it before I felt the heat and lost my balance and started to fall. With a bundle full of sticks, I could not use my arms. There was a cliff on one side and the raging river on the other. I had nowhere to go so actually walked through the glowing embers. Then I sat down and checked out my foot. Had a giant blister covering the entire sole. Hurt like hell. From the rock though, not the coals as only my right foot got burned.

Forgot all about this when you asked.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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