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 Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Mind? Control Techniques 
#618556 - 04/25/02 04:05 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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An unpredictable society is an unprofitable society.
{Insert some rant about how corporations control people in America (and other countries)}
Basically, I'm just kinda pissed about it right now. I'm gonna get something to eat now... get my mind off it.
Feel free to post your thoughts on the matter. Maybe some questions as a guide...
1. Is there a fix?
2. Is it too late to fix this country (US)?
3. Can the fix be pulled off by a small, grassroots group of renegade philanthropists (who aren't rich)?
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Sclorch]
#618570 - 04/25/02 04:29 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well...I had my little rant about TV in the "what REALLY bothers you" thread. That particular rant was more about desensitizing rather than controling. But really, every time you switch on the TV you are seeing an example of mind control. I don't really feel like going into a rant right at the moment but I do feel pretty stongly about it. I will say this though:
Very few of us realize the extent to which we are controlled.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Revelation]
#618585 - 04/25/02 04:50 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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Very few of us realize the extent to which we are controlled.
Actually, this is more of a problem than those that are responsible for the controlling. People -=ALLOWING=- themselves to be controlled in the first place. It's like that saying "No can make you feel inferior without your permission." Well, no one can control you (in the manner I am referring to) without your permission either. Of the three questions above, I think I put the most emphasis on question 3.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Sclorch]
#618604 - 04/25/02 05:14 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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People think that small groups of people are powerless to change the status qo. In fact, it is the only way it has ever been changed in the past.
But people don't like having to confront their own apathy. It makes us feel powerless, which makes us feel insecure. Which makes us angry (but hey anger's good, keep drinking that beer).
Things need to change. And it will change, everything always does...it's up to us what direction that change takes. How about the members of this here spirituality and philosophy board get together and write down a list of attributes we want the new world to have. Then let's make it happen. Now or never right?
But then what do we do when the next bunch of anarchists come along and decide they don't like the way things are going? Not like we can say "but we're right and you're wrong".
Still, let's cross that bridge when we come to it.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Revelation]
#618624 - 04/25/02 05:39 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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But then what do we do when the next bunch of anarchists come along and decide they don't like the way things are going? Not like we can say "but we're right and you're wrong".
I've thought of this... so did the founding fathers of America.
They made the constitution adaptable. The only problem is that they didn't foresee the power of the corporations. So maybe we just need to ammend the constitution so that people are more important than corporations and give the people the control back. We also need to make it so politicians are doing the right thing... rather than just following opinion polls (5 million people can be wrong. Also, polls never mention their sampling techniques or their standard deviation.).
WE WANT WISE REPRESENTATION, NOT PEOPLE WHO JUST "GO WITH THE FLOW".
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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 Danimal
journeyman
Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 76
Last seen: 22 years, 4 days
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Sclorch]
#618707 - 04/25/02 07:12 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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"People -=ALLOWING=- themselves to be controlled in the first place."
I would take that one step further. Not only are people allowing themselves to be fucked in the ass daily, they're bending over and applying the lube. I remember reading "1984" and thinking, this could never happen, the people wouldn't let it get this fucked up. Boy, was I wrong. People are going on "reality shows" and getting paid to have their lives taped in a twisted ego-boosting, narcissistic, Big Brother(hey they should make a show called that) way. I wouldn't be suprised if the government are saying to themselves, "we thought we were going to have to coax these dumbsheep into submission, but they're doing it themselves." Enough ranting for one posting, I'm out.
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frogsheath
Stranger
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 Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Danimal]
#618803 - 04/25/02 09:05 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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I get the feeling that most people now believe there is
nowhere to go but "with the flow". "The flow" is overwhelming in all aspects.
However, we must think different. I think Revelation has a point about past
revolutions starting with small groups. It is particularly difficult now with globalization
though. I for one, would rather die than give in to some bullshit society that is supposed
to benefit me. America is definitely coming to a crossroads. Corporations are definitely
in the best position to determine which way it will turn. I don't really have good feelings about it.
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer
Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: frogsheath]
#618860 - 04/25/02 10:02 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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In my opinion the answer to #3 is no, the answer to #1 is yes, therefore leading to the question of #2.
I think that if a change is to take place, the fundamental change MUST be in the mentality of the masses. Unfortunately, the majority of americans are sucking uncle sam's cock.
I often discuss this subject with people and i am always amazed because many say that they would love nothing more than to have a house with a mortgage, a secure 9-5 job, 2.5 kids, etc...There is nothing wrong with these desires except that i always hear that twinge of a neurotic/obsessive longing for peace and security that can never be found in this world of pain and mortality. I think that the government takes it upon itself to feed the flames of this illusion because it is so beneficial in the short term. It is also a way to deal with overpopulation which is where the need for this type of "society" arises. We also have the little experiment gone bad called "the sixties". I still believe, however, that our government is currently in the position to free the minds of its people.
For now we must take this daunting task into our own hands (so i guess my answer to #3 is really yes). I think that an excellent way to do this is through the medium of music. Given its current status in popular culture and flexabilty in terms of expression, music seems like it would be the most effective way to stimulate change in the group conciousness.
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infidelGOD
illusion
Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Sclorch]
#618874 - 04/25/02 10:14 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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What do you mean by "fix" this country?
I agree that something must be done but the problem is, any group trying to change this country in any significant way will be seen as trying to undermine the authority of the current government (you know how they hate that).
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dumlovesyou
retired shroomer
Registered: 05/02/01
Posts: 688
Loc: One dimension
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Sclorch]
#619028 - 04/26/02 01:16 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have already posted some ideas in onother post of mine. ANyway, I think we are the same from the sclavagist period!!! We are the slaves. I am so pissed of that I have to work for little money and ohters have all the power with no working. I don't want power! I just want to live and do what I want!!! THERE IS A WAY to change this!! We all have to start fighting against it!! No more politics! No more leaders! We have to start NOW!! 
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I see trees of green, psylocibe mushrooms too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world
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Insomniac
Stranger
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 Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: dumlovesyou]
#619056 - 04/26/02 02:11 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've also thought about this alot but as soon as I go out into the "real world" I see how many people do not want to change. Some will complain about things here and there, but really they couldn't imagine life any other way. Which sadly makes me believe that the only way any sort of change is possible is through some sort of cataclysm that will drastically reduce the population on this planet and sort of force people to "wake up".
We are the slaves. I am so pissed of that I have to work for little money and ohters have all the power with no working.
I used to think this way until about 3 weeks ago. I was watching Fight Club and it was at the part where he wrote that haiku poem about worker bees:
Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave
I never really paid much attention to it before but this time that last line got me thinking. Think about it, the queen is hopelessly dependent on them to live. What would happen if we all stopped working suddenly? Everything would crumble, just as the queen would die. The system that "they" (whoever they are) have created to keep us in line and under their control is dependent on us for it to work. Without us there is no system. We are the ones that are in control.
Now "they" know this, so "they" had to figure out a way to keep us in line. A violent dictatorship may have worked fine before, but now we have justice and rights and blah blah blah. So "they" had to be sneakier and find a way to control us that would be undetectable. What better way to do this then to attack the mind. Through the years "they've" conditioned us, trying to make us feel that we are the ones that are hopelessly dependent on "their" system, making us into the slaves. They have created "a prison for our minds. A prison that we cannot smell, or taste or touch."
Free your mind, you're the only one that can.
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raytrace
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Catalysis]
#619087 - 04/26/02 04:00 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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i agree that music is an appropriate medium needed for a shift consciousness. music is very powerful. also, the internet can play very important role. people can gather overcoming the problems of physical distance, it is not an one-way passive medium, and most importantly it cannot be, easily, controlled. the internet can give power to small groups of people. i think technology should be a major weapon to fight back. The new "sixties" should be based on that, not just getting stoned and dropping out.
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klj
Stranger
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: raytrace]
#619172 - 04/26/02 06:42 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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i think the changes you are talking about will came, but we woulnt be live to see this. it'll come slowy, the way it happend with black slaves, women rights etc. When a critical number of free minded individuals is reached there wouln't be any turning back. have you read "the aquarian conspiracy"? this is a very good book, exactly about personal and society mind changes in the last century.
right now except a small group of people like us, there is no body else who wants this changes. ordinary people simply love their ordinary lifestyle, they are glued to the TV and the kitchen, who would need smthing more? governments want to rule easy so they love the ordiary lifestyle of their citizens, too.
i'm sorry to say, but there is no chance to change the society in the near future. the best i can tell you is what castaneda says: try living in the ordinary world without being part of it
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skaMariaPastora
Utopiate
Registered: 03/14/01
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Loc: MA
Last seen: 21 years, 8 months
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: klj]
#619268 - 04/26/02 08:53 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes, I agree that the change will probably come slowly. If some group were to form itself today that spoke of a utopia that it was trying to form, the vast majority of Americans will violently oppose such a change because they think they are happy where they are. First there needs to be more widespread discontentment with the way things are, then there will be a shift in mass consciousness. Because the economy has been so good, most people are perfectly happy making their money and driving their cars.
Neils Bohr once said: "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." I think the same can apply for social truths. It will take a few generations but I think people will start recognizing what is happening and positive change will take place.
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Eightball
whore consumer
Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 3,013
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: raytrace]
#619307 - 04/26/02 09:44 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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"think for yourself, question authority. throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are or where we're going in this ocean of chaos. it has been the authorities; the political, the religious, the educational authorities, who have attempted to comfort us by giving us order through regulations, informally forming in our minds their view of reality. to think for yourself, you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable openmindedness chaotic confused vulnerability to inform yourself. think for yourself, question authority." -timothy leary
leary was the man. if only there were a leary style leader for the newer generations. we really need someone to activly protest the way this country is run and the way we are servants to the dollar.
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.
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skaMariaPastora
Utopiate
Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 443
Loc: MA
Last seen: 21 years, 8 months
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Eightball]
#619325 - 04/26/02 10:10 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah but Leary tried to go way too fast. By revolting against the authorities so explosively he brought down their wrath and they effectively shut down his little movement. I think we need more gradual change.
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raytrace
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
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nice comment ska, but i reckon the pace should not be too slow either.
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frogsheath
Stranger
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Insomniac]
#619344 - 04/26/02 10:30 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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Insomniac, I like your metaphors here. I would love to see a sudden change
like you described it --what would happen if we all stopped working suddenly?
The alternative is just as scary.
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Anonymous
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Sclorch]
#619348 - 04/26/02 10:37 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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The Matrix is a system... That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around and what do you see? Businessmen, Teachers, Lawyers, Carpenters...the very minds of the people we're trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it.
-- Morpheus (character from "The Matrix")
Edited by evolving (04/26/02 10:39 AM)
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shroomer0187
newbie
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 Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Sclorch]
#619370 - 04/26/02 11:20 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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This country is going to change sooner or later, maybe when enough people realize whats really going on here. corperations are brainwashing people, either becuase they want to have control over them, or they just want our hard earned $$$- or both?? To them we are just like cattle from whom they prey off of. I am especailly frustrated with they way they present us with news. They Allways put a negitive spin on everthing, to make it more interesting so that more people will watch. they always have this negative attitude about things, espaicially when they report a crime thats in progress, like a missing child, or a car chase. they never seem to have a posative attitude torwards anything. I am also going to bring this even deeper, to waht i believe is the real source of all this negitivity and selfishness-Money. People who have money have power, and people with power also get a new ego to go along with it.usually not a change for the better. money seems to be the center of all our probablems, and even though it doesnt seem like it, alot of peoples lives and goals are based on it. greed and selfishness are very powerful emotions indeed, it will make people do strange things.When will we take the next step into the future of mankind?- destroy they barrier that seperates us, and unite the human race. we would no longer fight over our petty differences, and we will realize that we are basically all the same. i believe that if we can find some other means of living, one without greed, all of the above will be entirely possible.
Hopefully one day it will happen, before we destroy our selves and the beautiful planet we live in. Im only 16 years old, so who knows. Maybe i'll live to see it.
-peace-
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Can anyone pronounce this, I'm having trouble.
Why don't you try?
I AM SOFA
KING WE-
TOD DID.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Sclorch]
#619398 - 04/26/02 11:54 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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Empires always collapse. The corporate empire will collapse too. The only problem is how long it takes and whether it's destroyed the planet completly by the time it does finally collapse.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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JPAtanat
member
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Insomniac]
#619437 - 04/26/02 12:50 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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Corporations do not oppress society, for corporations are the very brainchild of society. I often think, what if everyone just didn't do ANYTHING for a week our four days, or even just a weekend? And I mean no washing the car, planning what we're gona do later, driving anywhere, even fasting would be appropriate. Most people would probably be driven partly insane, or become very depressed. What is everone rushing around for? This society is so mixed up in a grossly intense striving for security. That is why money is important. Addiction to security is, I think, the main problem here. I think the haiku that catclysm posted is important, because I find more and more people who are questioning how society operates. I think maybe it is possible to slowly change the paradigm. Without us, corporate control will slowly dissolve.
When 9-11 came, I was not surprised, nor was I afraid. I don't know why it was - I don't think it was just callousness or stoicism. I think it is because I try to keep the acute sense of insecurity that is inherent in our lives. Perhaps it will be something cataclysmic that shakes the human race out of it's stupor and forces it to look imminent death in the face, since, after all, death is always imminent. Unfortunately 9-11 didn't do that - quite the opposity really. We as Americans have become even more addicted to security and even more smug. It is sad, I do not know how it is going to change. But I will focus on changing myself; I think that's the best I can hope to accomplish.
Peace Earthlings.
Edited by JPAtanat (04/26/02 12:53 PM)
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Danimal
journeyman
Registered: 04/12/02
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: JPAtanat]
#619759 - 04/26/02 06:49 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/apr2002/indi-a24_prn.shtml
This article was written on April 24th so I don't know what effect the protest had, I'd assume it made some sort of dent. However, it is the sheer size of the protest(10 million people!!) that I find to be incredible. There was just a large rally in Washington, DC(100,000people) to show their support for Israel, which I'm a bit confused the reasoning behind that. The US government isn't doing shit about Sharon and his actions, so the rally appeared to be more of supporting our governmen't stance with Israel. I was raised Jewish and yet I see no reason in supporting Sharon's plan to wipe out Palestine under the guise of "protecting Israel and fighting the war on terrorism". Anyways, this is just another example of the people supporting the US govt. which I'm sure the govt. is pleased with.
Does anyone here think there's even enough people in the country fed up with the government to be able to make a noise? I've been talking with basically anyone who's interested about the US government and for every 1 person who says, "I agree, our government is fucked up and they're fucking us" I get 10 'good americans' telling me to "get out of this country if you hate it so much, you: traitor, terrorist sympathizer, you're worse than terrorists, anti-american, more dangerous than terrorist, you're what's wrong with this country, liberal cocksucking treehugging fag".
Peace folks.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Danimal]
#619773 - 04/26/02 07:05 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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See my new thread "Citizens Wanted ".
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Tannis
ZoneTrooper
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Sclorch]
#620264 - 04/27/02 08:24 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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We all experience a kind of "mind control" if we have good parents who encompass us and shield us from adversity while we grow to be free thinkers.
That's only in an ideal situation though........the problem is that we are prone to mind control and this is bad if the person in charge is not in our best interest. We need to be free thinkers but "seeing it like it is" as a free thinker, tends toward a cynical outlook on life.......
Finding something positive to believe in and so be controled to some extent by, is necessary unless we want to take the harshness of life on the chin and try to stay positive.
Is the glass half empty or half full?
Perception and belief will determine the answer.........
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mrdasani
enthusiast
Registered: 10/19/01
Posts: 224
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: Insomniac]
#622904 - 04/30/02 04:28 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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They have created "a prison for our minds. A prison that we cannot smell, or taste or touch."
Okay Insomniac, I think you watched Fight Club and Matrix one too many times.
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"Come on you raver, you seer of visions,
come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!" - Pink Floyd (Wish You Were Here 1975)
"Never underestimate the power of denial." -from American Beauty.
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Insomniac
Stranger
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Posts: 35
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: Mind? Control Techniques [Re: mrdasani]
#623351 - 04/30/02 03:17 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ya, so? It all makes so much sense, well at least to me it does
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