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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: dna24]
    #28762857 -

I reached out via e-mail, since I never heard back here. They responded, and it sounds like they're going to send a replacement. If it comes, do you want to trade?


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:dragon:

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #28763782 -

Currently Morchella sextelata, M.eximia, M.exuberans, M.importuna, M.owneri, M.rufobrunnea, M.tomentosa, Mel-13, Mel-21 can be cultivated

Chinese mass cultivated species are Morchella sextelata, M.eximia, M.importuna

In my experience from visiting morel cultivation research center, cultivation method is more important than specific strain.

They said all M.sextelata strains are fully fruited.

Still, I hope you have great success with indoor cultivation:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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List of artificially cultivated mushroom from entire world(over 300+ species)

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: lastine]
    #28764285 -

Lastine I love what you have contributed to the community and I agree that methodology is the main factor however, species is important for one main reason that actually changes cultivation methods and it’s a major factor, allow me to elaborate,

Those strains you listed, with the exception being morchella rufobrunea and morchella galillaea, all require a cold dormancy period and denurial temperature fluctuations.

Rufobrunnea and galilaea ecotypes do not require that to the same degree as observed in their ability to fruit in fall, thus demonstrating they will fruit with cold wet seasons and do not require cold dormancy, frost/thaw conditions

in my opinion this makes them ideal candidates to start with since they will be the most forgiving if conditions are not perfectly matched to their natural environmental conditions.

After you figure out these more forgiving morel species and fruiting methods then you can begin to expand out to other species

Just my thoughts and opinions


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #28765153 -

Oooooh, I didn't know M.rufobrunnea is warmer than other species

(The suspected pathogenic contaminating fungus was isolated from infected young fruiting bodies of M. rufobrunnea developing in a growth chamber at 17–20◦C and 90% airhumidity.)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/360607542_First_Report_on_Purpureocillium_lilacinum_Infection_of_Indoor-Cultivated_Morel_Primordia?_tp=eyJjb250ZXh0Ijp7ImZpcnN0UGFnZSI6InB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIiwicGFnZSI6InB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIn19

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/336471950_Fungal_and_bacterial_community_dynamics_in_substrates_during_the_cultivation_of_morels_Morchella_rufobrunnea_indoors

have you checked this paper?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/379848197_Studies_on_domestication_of_the_true_morel_Morchella_importuna_in_India

it says fruiting bodies can be obtained by jar method


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Edited by lastine (05/07/24 12:53 PM)

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: lastine]
    #28765203 -

lastine said:
The process I learned is same as china method(nothing special), and the strain is M.sexlanta




lastine said:
Chinese mass cultivated species are Morchella sextelata, M.eximia, M.importuna

In my experience from visiting morel cultivation research center, cultivation method is more important than specific strain.



Hmmm... so, what's that "nothing special" Chinese method then? How they cultivate morel?

I remember when Chinese invented some method. In the beginning they had lots of of weird pics at their site, people posing with morels. Then it was used by many farmers that were in the CN News. Then also a French guy bought the method and the strains, etc. After that I haven't followed the subject...
Oh, some Danish firm? had also some method after that... that was quite recently...

edit: My old link/video site's morel links. archive.org copy. Notice that I had to take it away from the net because some of the links were pointing old sites that now have malware etc. on them...
https://web.archive.org/web/20150702113745/http://speeker.freehostia.com/links/index.cgi?action=view_cat&category=17
Chinavivers was that site by those Chinese method inventors: http://www.chinavivers.com/
Looks still about the same...


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Edited by Speeker (05/08/24 04:25 PM)

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: Speeker]
    #28765298 -

Lastine yes I’ve seen the first two papers but not the 3rd one

Also I don’t know if you noticed but the first 2 papers were about morchella rufobrunnea

Personally I find the substrate bacteria theory irrelevant and misleading I would actually believe it’s coincidental and you could even demonstrate bacteria relationships with other species like oyster and reishi which they actually eluded to in the 2nd paper but we all know you don’t need those bacteria relationships to grow oyster or reishi

Everyone believed and actually still believe that wine caps need bacterial relationships but I’ve disproved that with my indoor wine caps


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: Speeker]
    #28769242 -

It's nothing special - using enb is the key factor for growing



here is a indoor cultivation(almost, I'm pretty sure those are pins)

I've learned that morels are quite strange - same experiment, so many different results.
This is due to complicated Morel life cycle

They cultivated Morels outside, but failed inside - many chinese papers say that indoor yields are higher but really unstable

Cultivation process is simple

1. toss the grain spawn to soil

2. put enb(any ingredients should work)

3. Fruiting begins after a month(indoors), 3months(outdoors)
White morel mycelium begins to dissapear/degenerate overtime and pins forms

4. Morels are cold types so 15C is needed


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: lastine]
    #28769336 -

Lastine I actually watched that video 10 times when it first came out last year, I believe where he failed is when he changed the environmental conditions towards the end, probably put them in shock and I believe bugs also destroyed them, oh and it’s not 1 months it’s closer to 2 months before harvest, approx 1 month spawn run, 2 weeks to pin, 2 weeks to mature  from my observations

Also just to clarify ENB is not new or even from the Chinese patent it’s actually Ronald owers patent and the Chinese ripped it off, you see he actually filed 3 patent methods of cultivation but they all run together when you read the document, making it confusing and it gets lost in all the other information,

but ENB was the 3rd patent owers describes using “paper packets” and nitrogen water solution is applied periodically to the substrate

Here’s the excerpt from his 1980’s patent, re read it and tell me it’s not the same method as the Chinese ENB lmao







I mean they have tweaked the recipe but it’s the same method using a perforated pasteurized feeding bag and he inoculated the substrate prior to adding the bag, the paper pulp (cellulose) is your carbon source and the primary food source, understanding the carbon/nitrogen cycle, they add dilute urea nitrogen to complete the c/n cycle the mycelium uses the nitrogen to synthesize cellulase enzymes and digest the cellulose in the paper converting it to carbohydrates and thus storing it as triglycerides in the form of pseudo sclerotia


Hell I have a theory as far as outside cultivation goes

I was going to keep it to myself but I’ll share it for shits and giggles, following this same logic one could simply spread colonized sawdust spaw / masters mix across fresh turned soil, rake soil over it toss some nitrogen fertilizer pellets Or granules on the soil surface and water it in and then put down painters plastic with holes in it let it colonize the soil surface and then my spin on things, toss fresh cold water lime pasteurized wheat straw on top of the
Painter plastic, let that colonize for a few weeks then simply roll up the plastic with the colonized straw and now you’re soil should be covered in sclerotia and ready to fruit, just set up a lawn sprinkler on a timer and you should be good to go obviously timing and the season are critical


Hell you could even use that same colonized wheat straw to start the process over in a new patch if there’s enough time left in the season


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Edited by 7Suns (05/10/24 06:06 PM)

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #28769850 -

Btw anyone interested in the wc 833 terry farm’s rufobrunea culture can just message me directly i said the hell with it and bought it outright


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #28770159 -

Okay, there seem to be a lot of more info available these days...
For example this gal's thesis is nice.
https://plantpath.psu.edu/news/china-trip-unveils-morel-cultivation-mysteries

I like Zhu's story about inventing Chinese method accidentally, or partly so. :cool:


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: Speeker] * 1
    #28770337 -

Lmao what a load of horse shit :rofl2:


“An innovative technique applied by Dr. Douxi Zhu significantly changed the morel cultivation industry in China: the application of nutrient bags to provide an additional nutrient source. In 2000 Dr. Zhu hired farmers to help him transport spawn bags (mycelium used to inoculate the soil), but they accidentally left a few bags on the soil surface. Ten days later he returned to find a jumble of white, powdery substances around the bags, which had openings downward. When fruiting bodies appeared, he found more morels from the region that had the forgotten bags. This inspired Dr. Zhu to create the technology, which is now a key step in morel cultivation.”

“Although Ronald Ower first described the additional nutrient source concept in 1982, he failed to realize and demonstrate its importance in morel cultivation. The science behind the application is that Morchella spp. sexual development requires a comparable nutrient-poor environment.”


We failed to understand his patent, he described correctly we just didn’t understand it properly then

Lmao zhu is a clown, why did he hire shitty laborers that dropped his spawn bags and how did they conveniently have “openings downwards” lmao


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: lastine]
    #28770397 -

lastine said:
have you checked this paper?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/379848197_Studies_on_domestication_of_the_true_morel_Morchella_importuna_in_India

it says fruiting bodies can be obtained by jar method


From another paper. Fruitbodies were quite small.. like less than cm read somewhere.. maybe is was mentioned in another paper?? Or I mix things..
Quote:
M. importuna strain ANI 1 was chosen for experiments on ascomata induction in the laboratory and
under greenhouse settings due to its increased sclerotial production capability. Jar method (Ower et al.
1986) was modified to induce ascomata under laboratory conditions. In a nutshell, the bottom of
containers filled with 2 parts wheat grains, followed by a layer of 1 part stone pieces and 2 parts forest
dirt as the top layer. Sclerotia-rich cultures of 7 Morchella spp. were used to inoculate the top layer of the containers. Following that, the containers were maintained at 0 to 10C for 15 days to condition. They
were then incubated for 20 days at 15-22C, for a total of 22 days. The substratum was hydrated after
incubation, and humidity was sustained between 80 and 85 percent. Later, the tiny bags of red gram
powder were added to the upper layers. The observations were made on the fungus's conidial stage and
ascomata development.
https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-1814026/v1/39c8771d-5c86-4168-81ae-3ff6390a3e43.pdf?c=1659681277




The idea of using nutrient bags reminds me of the way in Finland we have been semi-cultivated false morels from early 1980's if not earlier*. In it newspapers are buried to the areas where its mycelia is already established. (Also breaking of forest's surface can trigger them to fruit.) After a year or two or so the pit starts producing... Also real morels sometimes appear around these pits...
*One 1978 paper mentions using waste material from pulp industry spiced with little bit of urea...

edit: typos


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blog

Edited by Speeker (05/11/24 05:16 PM)

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: Speeker]
    #28770439 -

So according to the in vitro fruiting claimed in that article, one could simply do this in a filter patch bag and then open it and induce fruiting similar to king oyster or something like that ( I recall seeing morels fruiting this way in a science article)


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns] * 1
    #28770488 -

https://www.mdpi.com/2309-608X/9/4/492

You could see the total days of cultivation process

Yes, the indoor total run is about 2months(My standard was fruiting length)

day 10 : put enb
day 35 : conidial mat forms
day 46 : remove enb, change enviroment(8~13C, 80~90RH, CO2 380~420PPM)
day 59 : pins form

I'm sure the total indoor run length is right because
I searched indoor cultivation run video on bilibili,
downloaded and used translation software to understand it.

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Vq4y197ZY/?spm_id_from=333.999.0.0

The indoor run was taken at July summer time and total run was about 2month



Here is the organized list of cultivation data that I know

  • Optimal climate is 10~18C
  • Indoor run takes total 2months, Outdoor run starts at November, harvest at March(total 3~4months)
  • ENB are placed at day 10~14
  • the soil needs to be loose, ph 6.5, almost every soil can be done(but essential microrganisms needed)
    The research center that I visited grown M.sextelata used sand as soil
    soil RH is about 50%~
  • no direct sunlight, just shade needed
  • Too much morel farming changes the soil compositions, yields will go down
  • enb example : wheat 46%, husk 20%, wheat bran 18%,
    sawdust 10%, gypsum 1%, precipitated calcium carbon-
    ate (PCC) 1%, and humus 4%
  • For fruiting
    soil RH 65~75%, RH 85~90%
    temperature 6~10C, 20C is high
    daily temperature gap 10C over
    pins are fragile to enviromental conditions
  • To induce fruiting watering is very important
    like shocking shiitake, flooding are required to induce fruiting
    Other test farms failed due to low watering
  • M.sextelata, M.eximia, M.exuberans, M.importuna, M.owneri, M.rufobrunnea, M.tomentosa, Mel-13, Mel-21 are able to cultivate
    Chinese commercial species are M.sextelata, M.eximia, M.importuna




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Edited by lastine (05/11/24 12:14 PM)

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #28770501 -

Maybe this one?

https://www.syjxb.com/EN/10.16488/j.cnki.1005-9873.2010.01.016


Artificial Cultivation of Morchella conica

A strain of Morchella conica was grown on three vegetative growth media (M1,M2 and M3) and five fruiting media (Y1,Y2,Y3,Y4 and Y5). Of the various media tested,M1 and Y1 were the most suitable for vegetative growth and fruiting of M. conica respectively. Fruit bodies were formed when M. conica was grown at 13~23 ℃ (ambient temperature) on Y1 medium without soil casing. Fruiting was stimulated by 48 h exposure to strong light (10 000 lux) followed by further incubation under natural lighting conditions.


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: lastine]
    #28770642 -

Lastine I think there’s too much back and forth between strain and indoor vs outdoor cultivation in this thread to specify set parameters for fruiting

So let me clarify

Ronald owers used morchella rufobrunea and was able to optimize its environmental factors to achieve cultivation indoors from start to finish in approximately 60 days

This is currently the only way of cultivation I am interested in replicating, outdoor cultivation of morels is of limited interest to me and many others in this forum would probably agree, although information on outdoor cultivation is helpful in understanding ecology, it’s taken with a grain of salt because parameters for indoor cultivation can be optimized and can vary based on strain

My only focus is to first achieve successful cultivation indoors with a known strain and method and to expand to other strains if that’s successful, until then i personally don’t want to base my research and cultivation attempts on outdoor methods or strains

I do however appreciate your input and attention to detail and always posting research papers and scholarly articles


Also bear in mind M. Conica was a common mislabeling for rufobrunea until about the early 2000’s so unless they strain in the article is DNA sequenced I’m always skeptical


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #28771274 -

About those Danes. Is it the sp./strain(s), or are they "just" mimicking the nature so well??
If they sell fresh, some local could take a clone... (though senesce is said to be one of problems.)


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: Speeker]
    #28771284 -

Speeker said:
About those Danes. Is it the sp./strain(s), or are they "just" mimicking the nature so well??
If they sell fresh, some local could take a clone... (though senesce is said to be one of problems.)


It’s said to be Morchella importuna they collected specimens locally and isolated the best sub-culture, apparently there were a lot of isolates tested from the hand full of wild collected specimens that didn’t fruit very well or at all indoors even with the current methods they are using so that means strain and even the specific isolates are important

Importuna is really the only other species I’m willing to work with at this point but I still believe rufobrunnea is more tolerant of indoor cultivation


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #28774791 -

I've been reading through this thread, can't believe this is over 16 years of discussion, and still active.

I'd like to grow morels, I'm not done reading all messages, but did anyone succeed in doing so here?

I will be cloning from local live tissue, and I expect mycelium to develop on agar, but beyond that I imagine the challenge is creating the spawn and getting it to fruit, right?

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: spindle_wolf]
    #28774924 -

spindle_wolf said:
I've been reading through this thread, can't believe this is over 16 years of discussion, and still active.

I'd like to grow morels, I'm not done reading all messages, but did anyone succeed in doing so here?

I will be cloning from local live tissue, and I expect mycelium to develop on agar, but beyond that I imagine the challenge is creating the spawn and getting it to fruit, right?



I would advise against that unless you know the exact species you harvest because it appears the morel is a very diversified mushroom with sub species that are strictly mycorrhizal and some that are facultative saprobes so it’s very strain dependent and environmental conditions must be perfect


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