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 falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,130
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
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 Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum?  [Re: Basidiocarp]
#2880084 - 07/11/04 11:01 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Chantrelles cloned and grew pretty easily on PDYA agar. There may be hidden bacterrial contamination. From what I've read it's pretty common with chantrelles.
Aminita muscaria also seems to take well to PDYA. Grown from button.
B. edulis grows well on PDYA and Malt agar.
I've also clone an unknown bolete and moved it onto bird seed and then straw.
Getting it to fruit is probably another matter entirely.
Mycorrhyzal mushrooms do not seem to be that picky about what they will grow on. Must be those idaho potatos  .
I think one trick to getting them started is using a large chunk, about 1/2 again as big as erasor size and rolling it around on the agar. The first time i put it on agar I did this accidentally and the mycelliun grew from where the mushroom peice had rolled on the agar. It may be that large peices of mushroom fruit inhibit vegetative growth in mycorrhyzal species and small fragments left on the agar are not as adverse to growing.
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,130
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: falcon]
#3132110 - 09/13/04 10:07 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I transferred the chantrelle culture to brown rice, quarter cup of brown rice to 100 ml of water and pressure cooked. This was done on 8/8 it took about three and a half weeks to colonize completely. I purposely kept the water content low to favor fungal growth.
Today i got up the courage to try it. I scooped the cake out of the jar and added it to a cup and half of boiling water. It has hardly any mushroom flavor and a mild mushroom scent , that drew a mushroom fly to fiery death as it cooked, that is almost exactly like Cambells condensed mushroom soup.
There is none of the fruity scent that you get with Chantrelles though. Edible but not really worth the effort.
I move the B edulis to grain, birdseed, and it took well 4 out 5 jars colonized in about 2 weeks.I then moved it to staw and cotton seed hulls. It colonized fairly quickly and just as quickly succumbed to trich. The unknown bolete is much more resistant to contamination on straw.
The unknown bolete i transferred from agar to supplemented potting soil, sterilized (vermiclulite, peat moss, leaf mold and potato broth). When the potting soil was fully colonized I transfered seedlings of the spruce i found them under to the potting soil. There does not seem to be any difference in the growth of the seedlings in the colonized potting soil and those that had not been transplanted.
What was really cool was getting the spruce to sprout. You never see spruce seedlings in this area. I put the seeds in a plastic bag with damp clean sand and left them in the refrigerator for a month from the middle of April to the middle of May. This cold treatment is called stratifying. I planted them in trays of peat moss. They took from 2 to 3 weeks to sprout.
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ragadinks
MrBeatle
Registered: 10/20/03
Posts: 1,298
Last seen: 1 year, 7 days
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: falcon]
#3133085 - 09/14/04 02:35 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Great experiment !
I cannot believe that you could get the mycelium of chanterelle and boletes to grow on agar !
> think one trick to getting them started is using a large chunk, about 1/2 again as big as erasor size and rolling it around on the agar.
> The first time i put it on agar I did this accidentally and the mycellium grew from where the mushroom piece had rolled on the agar.
> It may be that large peices of mushroom fruit inhibit vegetative growth in mycorrhyzal species and small fragments left on the agar are not as adverse to growing.
Yeah, I experinced the same when I cloned some Calvatia gigantea. Only the bigger peaces took on the agar - the smaller all dried out.
But it is not always that easy to get a big sterile piece of tissue as it is with Calvatia gigantea  .
Have you got some pics of your experiments ?
Would be really interesting to see how the stuff looks like ...
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,130
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: ragadinks]
#3136885 - 09/14/04 10:34 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I only have pictures of the fully colonized rice and agar for the chantrelle.
I have some jars of agar with the boletes still on them. I have one jar of B. Edulis on birdseed, the one that did not colonize fully. I will take some pictures of these. The bolete I'm not sure what it is, the mycellium starts out white and turns tan over time. Tan was the color of the cap. It may be a while till I get the picture up though.
Yeah, I experinced the same when I cloned some Calvatia gigantea. Only the bigger peaces took on the agar - the smaller all dried out.
But it is not always that easy to get a big sterile piece of tissue as it is with Calvatia gigantea . How is the Calvatia gigantea growing?
I was very lucky to get such a clean chantrelle. When they first come out here in the late spring early summer they are very free from insects for about 2 days. When I went back the next day to collect more for the table they were tunnelled though with larva, still edible, but there is no way i would have had a clean piece to clone.Edit March 26th 2007 the jagged edged blade is not necessary to get a good clone from a Chantrelle, I cloned a chanterelle from a fruit body using a sharp scalpel in June of 2005
My first attempt at B. edulis failed. The other bolete I did at the same time grew without contaminating. We have had a very wet year and the B. Edulis has fruited almost every other week this year. The second time I tried I used a button.
The mycellium didn't start out of the chunk. It grew from where the chunk had hit the surface of the agar and rolled around. The chunk would get fuzzy but would not grow until the mycellium grew from the agar into the chunk. I use an exacto knife for a scalpal
I had not changed the blade for a while when I cut the boletes for clones. The Knife edge was rough. I think it left very small peices on the larger chunk that went on to the agar. When the chunk rolled on the agar it left some of those small peices where it had been. Those are what grew, I think.
Edited by falcon (03/26/07 07:07 PM)
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ragadinks
MrBeatle
Registered: 10/20/03
Posts: 1,298
Last seen: 1 year, 7 days
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: falcon]
#3137391 - 09/15/04 01:32 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Looking forward to see the pics of your experiments ...
I really wondered that you were able to clone this species -
on the site were they describe how they cultivated the chanterelles they used very complicated agar formulas in order to get a clean culture.
It is also very interesting that not the big chunk took on the agar but the places were you have rolled that chunk on.
Somehow I have no good explanation for this.
What do you think why this happens ?
> How is the Calvatia gigantea growing?
It does not grow very fast but it grows ...
Here is an older pic - now the mycelium has grown quite a bit:
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,130
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: ragadinks]
#3152645 - 09/18/04 11:00 PM (20 years, 29 days ago) |
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Chanterelles on brown rice.
Chanterelles and unknown bolete on agar
B. edulis on agar and birdseed.
Edited by falcon (09/18/04 11:15 PM)
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ragadinks
MrBeatle
Registered: 10/20/03
Posts: 1,298
Last seen: 1 year, 7 days
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: falcon]
#3155349 - 09/20/04 11:10 AM (20 years, 28 days ago) |
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Woow, and the mycelium looks very healthy !
Still cannot believe it !
Keep us updated - that's really going to a very interesting experiment !
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,130
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: ragadinks]
#3157157 - 09/20/04 06:17 PM (20 years, 27 days ago) |
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Pictures of spruce seedlings. The ones in the larger pots have been transplanted to the first bolete I cultured, I don't know what it is.
The ones in the small pots I was going to put into potting soil with B. edulis culture. I didn't get it done this summer. I will put these soon in a sheltered place for the winter.
Hopefully I can keep the B. edulis culture alive until the spring. I plan to buy some two or three year old trees and plant them with colonized soil or grain added to the hole. I've been told that with each successive transfer B edulis loses vitality and finally dies.
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,130
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: falcon]
#3183360 - 09/26/04 05:32 PM (20 years, 21 days ago) |
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This is the B. edulis I cloned, a button and one that was hit by a lawn mower.
Ther are also some horse mushrooms.
Edited by falcon (09/26/04 10:02 PM)
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ragadinks
MrBeatle
Registered: 10/20/03
Posts: 1,298
Last seen: 1 year, 7 days
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: falcon]
#3183396 - 09/26/04 05:48 PM (20 years, 21 days ago) |
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horse mushroom ? are that the white ones ? they look like agaricus ?
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,130
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: ragadinks]
#3183411 - 09/26/04 05:54 PM (20 years, 21 days ago) |
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They are, Agaricus arvensis. Horse mushroom is the common name.
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Psilygirl
cyan goddess
Registered: 08/28/03
Posts: 4,418
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: ragadinks]
#3183611 - 09/26/04 07:23 PM (20 years, 21 days ago) |
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yes, the horse mushrooms are an Agaricus... and they are the white ones in the pic
--------------------
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows."
Puget Sound Mycological Society
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ragadinks
MrBeatle
Registered: 10/20/03
Posts: 1,298
Last seen: 1 year, 7 days
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: Psilygirl]
#3183618 - 09/26/04 07:26 PM (20 years, 21 days ago) |
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They really look nice - take a print of them and send me one
I would like to trade for one ...
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Psilygirl
cyan goddess
Registered: 08/28/03
Posts: 4,418
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: ragadinks]
#3183638 - 09/26/04 07:31 PM (20 years, 21 days ago) |
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they were fruiting on a lawn nearby my house a month back, but i havent checked... if i get a chance i'll swing by and get a print.
i havent tried them, personally.
--------------------
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows."
Puget Sound Mycological Society
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ragadinks
MrBeatle
Registered: 10/20/03
Posts: 1,298
Last seen: 1 year, 7 days
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: Psilygirl]
#3184939 - 09/27/04 01:18 AM (20 years, 21 days ago) |
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great ! thanks !
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snoopline
Stranger
Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 5
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: falcon]
#3431616 - 12/01/04 05:30 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Your culture of b. edulis is exiting, but... how can you be sure that the "white growing" is not a mold ?
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,130
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: snoopline]
#3434716 - 12/01/04 08:17 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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I can't.
It behaves very much like A bisporus mycellium.
I think the first clone i did of edulis in June is harbor-
ring bacteria. When it sits on grain after it's been
colonized a while it don't smell right.
I started another
culture in October from button
in the picture.
I have had mold as a contaminate in some of the
jars of mycorrhyzal mushrooms I have cloned.
They seem to put up much more of a fight
against contaminating molds than other mushrooms.
They will climb over and cover the
contaminate.
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snoopline
Stranger
Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 5
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: falcon]
#3441935 - 12/03/04 11:29 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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You could use a microscope to differanciate mold and basidiomyc?tes.
Got any one ?
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,130
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: snoopline]
#3443446 - 12/03/04 06:53 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes I have one.
How will I differentiate them with a microscope?
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snoopline
Stranger
Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 5
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
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Re: morels and chanterelles to swap for maitake and hericum? [Re: falcon]
#3444563 - 12/04/04 02:39 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Basidiomycetes have some special junction between segments : some kind of inflation (pic1). The junction between segment is "regular" ie smooth with mould
Edited by snoopline (12/04/04 11:27 AM)
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