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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #29424550 -

I might be able to get you an importuna culture next spring, but it'd be an untested clone picked then


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"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #29425162 -

tryptkaloids said:
I might be able to get you an importuna culture next spring, but it'd be an untested clone picked then



Well fingers crossed I actually found 3 different importuna cultures from 3 different vendors so I put them all to agar last night hopefully at least 1 is still alive :rofl2:


They all looked like absolute garbage though :shrug:


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #29428958 -







Surprised by the outcome, the outgrow importuna that i thought was dead for sure actually beat the others even though it had the longest initial lag, keep in mind all of these cultures were kept at room temp for over a year

The rufo lc was dead though so I’ll have to start that over

Joel’s morel is the runner up so i might give both of those a go


The mycelium emporium culture is weak but growing so i might trash it


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns] * 1
    #29430747 -

Well I’m very excited to present my findings after scoping my fastest importuna culture from outgrow, it would appear that this culture is self fertile and is successfully mating through Somatogamy and possibly even spermatizaton from chlamydospores

The interesting thing is that importuna is actually the strongest candidate for cultivation because it can produce fruit through psudohomothalism, unisexual reproduction, and heterothalism unlike most species that only survive through heterothalic reproduction and chlamydospore fertilization

Next step will determine if I can actually produce fruit !!












Here’s pictures from some of my research to confirm what I’m seeing in this culture














This is the outgrow culture 24 hrs later it has started to show pigmentation  and climb the lid




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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #29433797 -

:takingnotes:

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: LewDoja] * 3
    #29440183 -

Morchella importuna 48 hours post inoculation






Made some soil inoculum spawn jars

Recipe is:

40% Hwfp
10% potato starch
5% karo
0.5% KNO3
1% gypsum
0.1g B1
50% water content
1% hydraulic lime for PH 8-9

I made 4 quart jars of spawn using this recipe, they will be used as the main soil Inoculum to seed the nutrient devoid soil substrate














The soil substrate consists of:

1 part calcium bentonite fullers clay unscented cat litter
4 parts native river sand from my garden ( I live walking distance from a river)
1% hydraulic lime to Ph 8-9



Then after I inoculate the nutrient poor soil trays with a sawdust jar I will place 1-2 straw logs that are 20-50% whole oats with the remainder as wheat straw, they will be lime pasteurized as well as heat pasteurized and then slit on one side and placed on top of the soil trays with a plastic film over the soil to keep them from drying out, I will periodically water them like houseplants and then the process of winterization and fruiting trigger  will begin

This is the type of straw log I will lay on top



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Edited by 7Suns (12/26/25 05:48 PM)

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #29440265 -

:takingnotes:

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: Cerberus909]
    #29453612 -

So full disclaimer, I am probably getting my panties in a bunch over some fucking mold or other bastard fungus as usual. That being said I wanted to share some pics I have from my most recent experiment and see what you guys think.

I have made up 8 trays to test out the various Morchella Americana cultures I have made since foraging the mushrooms this past spring. If you have one of the "elm hill" prints or wedges it came from this same collection, that could be a good or bad thing depending on how you take this. The plan was to spawn them in my basement and let them consolidate for a few weeks before moving them to an uninsulated outbuilding to let them cold stratify in this brutal midwestern winter. Then once the spring time comes around to gently water them in and introduce humidity and fresh air changes in the martha tent.

My plans have changed after I spotted what looks like primordia forming in one of these trays. The mycelium they grew from is visibly different from the original vegetative growth that formed sclerotia after 3 weeks of colonization on bulk. It is much finer and developing a creamy lemon yellow color. I scoped a piece of this mycelium and one of the alleged pins and immediately wrote it off as mold. There was a large strand of what I have come to recognize as mature morel mycelium, ie large hyphal diameter and deep golden brown pigmentation, more of a deep orange color and not yellow. Then surrounding it was this finer mycelium that appeared the yellow color to my naked eye. Under 40x magnification the finer hyphae appear to have the same color to them as the larger mycelium. Notably, there are also large circular brown spore-like structures. These are what really made me think I was just dealing with mold until 7suns sent me this photo:

This photo shows the primary morel mycelium intertwined with secondary mycelium that is producing the chlamydospores.

here is what I observed 40x and 400x(?):



Here are the macro shots of what I observed in the trays:



I suppose time will tell in any case, but I got everything to do a deep clean on my microscope to hopefully get better photos. I think theres a good chance this is the opposite of the black morel culture 7suns posted which was exhibiting homothalic reproduction. Morchella Americana is one of the "mycorrhizal" morels, maybe the heterothallic reproductive strategy is what makes them less compatible with the existing cultivation methods.


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Back when I was younger, I didn't have a clue, and come to think of it, I still doubt I do.



Edited by Blufuut180 (01/12/26 01:56 PM)

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: Blufuut180]
    #29454333 -

Great work blufuut180 !!

I would agree the mating strategy seems to be different and almost entirely 1:2 heterothalic and not self fertile so you would have to start from multispore every time


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #29456104 -

This is some awesome research 7Suns.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: Blufuut180]
    #29456117 -

That or "trick" M. Americana.
But anyways have you seen any landscape half-free morels? Strange that there isn't such a thing as a half-free that's growing like a rufo.

And yet half-frees grow in the same locations as the Americana and diminutiva. And sometimes the angusticeps.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #29456120 -

I'm curious as to what everyone uses as standard sterilization time for substrate.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #29456124 -

Google Gemini says:

While there isn't a "true" landscape species in the half-free morel group, some half-free morels can occasionally behave like landscape morels under the right conditions.
In the morel world, "landscape morels" typically refers to saprobic species like Morchella rufobrunnea or Morchella importuna. These feed on decaying organic matter (like wood chips) rather than relying on a symbiotic relationship with live tree roots. 
Here is how the half-free morels compare:
1. Occasional "Landscape" Half-free Morels
The primary half-free morel in the Eastern/Midwestern US, Morchella punctipes, is famous for growing in hardwood forests. However, it is officially described as "occasionally" appearing in urban landscaping areas. 
Why they appear: While usually found near dead elms or cottonwoods, they can fruit in gardens or wood-chipped areas if the soil contains the right nutrients or if there were old roots from a removed tree beneath the surface.
Difference: Unlike M. rufobrunnea, which is a dedicated "disturbed ground" specialist, half-free morels are much more likely to be a one-time "visitor" in a landscape rather than a reliable annual crop.
2. The Western Half-free Morel (Morchella populiphila)
In the West (where M. rufobrunnea is common), the half-free morel is Morchella populiphila. 
The Connection: This species is strictly tied to Black Cottonwood trees. If your landscaping includes these trees or is near a river bottom where they grow, you might find them in your yard.
The Catch: They are not known to fruit simply because you laid down new mulch; they require the presence of their specific host tree.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (01/15/26 02:21 PM)

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #29456138 -

AcidHorse said:
That or "trick" M. Americana.
But anyways have you seen any landscape half-free morels? Strange that there isn't such a thing as a half-free that's growing like a rufo.

And yet half-frees grow in the same locations as the Americana and diminutiva. And sometimes the angusticeps.



I have only ever found M. Puncitipes growing in the forest. I found pounds of them in an old orchard too. Never in woodchips though. I have picked americana out of my woodchip bed at my house, although it's probably associating with the plants in the flower bed. I think it came up around the base of a bugonia.

I don't think my area gets natural landscape morels. I went up to traverse city to get some from a landscaper that found them fruiting in September. Likely imported with some mulch the city laid down. I told him to keep me posted if they ever come back because it would be very cool to see it survive the brutal winter we get here.

AcidHorse said:
I'm curious as to what everyone uses as standard sterilization time for substrate.


I have only run pasteruized sub for morels but I sterilize my supplemented sawdust blocks for 4 hours at 15-17psi


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Back when I was younger, I didn't have a clue, and come to think of it, I still doubt I do.



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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: Blufuut180]
    #29456141 -

Google Gemini says:
While the original Ower/Mills/Malachowski patents (US 4,594,809) mentioned sterilization for "at least one hour" (60 minutes), modern cultivators have found that 60 minutes is often insufficient, especially when using dense materials like wheat berries or rye bran which have a high bacterial load.
Why 120 Minutes is Better for Your Ingredients
If you are using rye/wheat bran or wheat berries, 120 minutes at 15 PSI is the "gold standard" for several reasons:
Endospore Resistance: Grains and bran are often dusty and carry heat-resistant bacterial endospores (like Bacillus subtilis). A full 120 minutes ensures these are fully deactivated.
The "Core" Temperature: It takes time for the center of a jar or bag of grain to reach the required 250°F (121.1°C). If you only run the cycle for 60 minutes, the center of the substrate may only be sterile for 20-30 of those minutes.
Nutrient Density: The "nutrient-rich" substrate described in the patents (which includes soybean meal and sugars) is highly prone to contamination. More nutrients mean that even a single surviving spore will colonize the jar before your morel mycelium can.

Add lime to the nutrient rich.
The Problem: During sterilization (that 120-minute window), organic materials like your wheat/rye bran break down and release organic acids, which causes the pH to drop (become more acidic).


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (01/15/26 02:51 PM)

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: Blufuut180]
    #29456144 -

Another thing it pointed out was that just sweetening the nutrient rich with sugars and nitrogen wasn't good. It suggests using a correct amount of nitrogen but a nutrient source like corn steep liquor or wheat/rye bran liquor. CSL can be used as a supplement to the rye grains or wheat berries and such.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: Blufuut180]
    #29456153 -

Another thing is that I was trying to do some research on how to make penicillin and it described this situation with a special type of mold that grows on cantaloupes a species of penicillium and they had to expose it to UV to cause a mutation or something so that it produces a 1000 times more penicillin than regular bread mold.
And if that is so then UV more than likely plays a critical role in triggering morels to pin.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: AcidHorse] * 1
    #29456518 -

AcidHorse said:
Another thing is that I was trying to do some research on how to make penicillin and it described this situation with a special type of mold that grows on cantaloupes a species of penicillium and they had to expose it to UV to cause a mutation or something so that it produces a 1000 times more penicillin than regular bread mold.
And if that is so then UV more than likely plays a critical role in triggering morels to pin.



Not to be the bad guy here but you really shouldn’t rely on Ai too much, most of that stuff you quoted is garbage, no offense, but this is something you really have to dig deep and get the info directly from the source, Ai butchers it really badly, I’m sure uv helps with melanin levels and vitamin D levels and even sense of direction, but I’d be highly skeptical of it being a fruiting trigger, the only thing I’ve seen light actually being a fruiting trigger for is cordyceps, nothing else that i know of actually needs light to pin


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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #29457412 -

I was in this thread a very long time ago when metalhead created it and we did a lot of research and relying on the patent. Still nothing would get us anywhere even with landscape morels. As for protocols followed by most of the growers some of their own attempts didn't work either. If I didn't know what the Ai was mentioning I would take it with a grain of salt but not all of the Ai advice is wrong.
The 120 minute sterilization is dependent on volume of substrate and container.
There's a chart for general approximation of times based on volumes.
UV is the only other factor no one thinks of. There is absolutely no canopy during the early spring when there is no leaves to shade anything, only the dead leaves and they don't cover everything and what they don't cover gets a certain amount of UV while the environment is cold and frosty. There's nothing garbage about the actual conditions of the real environmental parameters for east coast morels however landscape morels don't require leaf cover.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: morel cultivation thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #29457424 -

You have to remember to that patent is specifically worded to prevent written to prevent reverse engineering. Every time I've read it I find another detail that is very cleverly written between the lines and have come to realize it's probably lost for good unless you beat it out of Gary mills. It is possible to recreate the method but still the author uses the same vague language that's in the patent.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20563623/ (find a pirated copy if you don't have institutional access)

AI is a search engine at best. You cannot take anything it says at face value. I will say it's useful for finding the DOI for peer reviewed research but reading them and pulling details is on you. Chat and Gemini can't even give good advice on proven mushroom cultivation techniques so they're next to useless on anything experimental.


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Back when I was younger, I didn't have a clue, and come to think of it, I still doubt I do.



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