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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: SirPsycho] * 2
    #28365603 -

Beat me to it.

Chamo said:
Once you have an individual strain, it grows uniform and without sections.



Chamo said:
but you can’t say that for sure without genetic testing



🧐

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Mycolorado] * 1
    #28365613 -

You made the claim that a monoculture is not possible, and you claimed that it there are always multiple strains present. How can you claim that without having ever done a genetic testing of the plate?

For the purposes of a hobby mycologist, obtaining a culture that provides the exact same fruiting every time is an isolate. When I have had the same culture for years, growing the exact same each time…I don’t see the point in arguing whether it is “true” or not.

Have you ever tried these things yourself or do you get discouraged by other people here?

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Chamo] * 4
    #28365624 -

Chamo said:
You made the claim that a monoculture is not possible, and you claimed that it there are always multiple strains present. How can you claim that without having ever done a genetic testing of the plate?

For the purposes of a hobby mycologist, obtaining a culture that provides the exact same fruiting every time is an isolate. When I have had the same culture for years, growing the exact same each time…I don’t see the point in arguing whether it is “true” or not.

Have you ever tried these things yourself or do you get discouraged by other people here?



The term monoculture isn't related to strains or genetic isolation. It just simple means you have one culture..mono...or axenic.

We know that because we understand how mycelium grows from spores and all combines together in an insanely intertwined way...the fact that the spores you see with your eye means there's millions of them there and they germinate all over each other  mono's becoming Dia's millions of intertwined fiber filaments growing out all woven and twisted around each other.

You taking a scalpel to it do a transfer is the equivalent of using a back-ho to extract a single specific strand of angel hair pasta from a parking lot of pasta 🤣


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Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Chamo]
    #28365626 -

Chamo said:
You made the claim that a monoculture is not possible, and you claimed that it there are always multiple strains present. How can you claim that without having ever done a genetic testing of the plate?

For the purposes of a hobby mycologist, obtaining a culture that provides the exact same fruiting every time is an isolate. When I have had the same culture for years, growing the exact same each time…I don’t see the point in arguing whether it is “true” or not.

Have you ever tried these things yourself or do you get discouraged by other people here?



Right and we provided reasons why(see links above) , your reasoning is it just takes time...

Sure, I agreed before that you have a culture that is isolated to produce consistent uniform growth(see above) but that is not the same as a strain.

Yes, terminology is important and the source of a lot of confusion due to people using terms interchangeably when they aren't.

Yes, I have tried it and I'm gonna venture that most of the others that have commented on this conversation have as well.


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:pm:Ask about free prints: Ps tampanesis, subtropicalis, cubensis(ESS) and Pan cyanescens:pm:
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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: rumfor69]
    #28365640 -

That’s why you don’t use a lot of spores… transfer early… have a lot of time on your hands… you are claiming something to be impossible when it is not. Whether it is a true isolate genetically is not what I’m referring to. But there is a clear advantage to fruiting with a known producer that has been isolated as much as physically possible. You are claiming this to be impossible when I have spent the past years doing it.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28365645 -

I am not talking about uniform growth on a Petri dish. I’m talking about fruiting these things dude. They fruit consistently. Every time. You can’t do that with a T2 plate

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Chamo] * 3
    #28365647 -

Chamo said:
I think you are the one mistaken. Strain isolation is not that complicated. Once you have an individual strain, it grows uniform and without sections.

Or do you not know what a strain is?



Sorry, but you are incorrect.

A strain can be characterized in two ways:

1. Monospore isolate: a single monokaryotic hypha germinated from an individual spore in isolation;

2. A single dikaryotic mated pair produced by two isolated parent monokaryons.

Neither of these two strain types can be produced via multispore germination. Most spores are compatible, which means that spores in close proximity will mate almost immediately via anastomosis. Bullers phenomenon will further blend and complicate the situation by the mating of dikaryons with compatible monokaryons.

The only other way to produce individual parent strains is to subject mated dikaryotic mycelium to dedikaryotization. Sectoring on plates has nothing to do with single strain isolation, and is impossible to achieve with a scalpel.

Single strain, monospore isolation is achieved via serial dilution and microscopy.



MS spore solution is diluted stepwise. That diluted solution is then spread evenly across a petri dish poured with water agar to slow growth once germination takes place. Once the monokaryotic hypha begins to grow, the cultivator use micromanipulators designed for this task to transfer the single spore isolate to a fresh petri dish, aided by a microscope.

This is known as a monospore isolate.

A breeder will then mate with either a second monospore isolate to produce a mated, fruitable dikaryotic strain or will simply allow the monospore isolate to colonize the entire dish, then use as inoculant for crossing.

This is how it's done.

Google dedikaryotization if you'd like to know how to reverse the process of dikaryotization.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28365654 -

Very well said. If you have links to any information as to why (other than another thread on this website), I would love to know why.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28365659 -

:smbfacepalm:


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Silence: Giving you room to listen / Stillness: Giving you room to feel / Spaciousness: Just giving you room

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Chamo]
    #28365660 -

Chamo said:
Very well said. If you have links to any information as to why (other than another thread on this website), I would love to know why.



I edited my post to reflect the reality. Go read a book on the sunject, or speak to a breeder. This is widely known.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 2
    #28365667 -

It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.


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Yeah, yeah.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28365672 -

It’s thought provoking but not entirely true. By the time sectors appear from MS, thousands of strains of compatible dikaryotic mycelium have consolidated. They are pure strains, composed of the collective DNA from the parings.

A little like saying Adam and Eve were the only true individual humans.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Chamo]
    #28365678 -

Chamo said:
It’s thought provoking but not entirely true. By the time sectors appear from MS, thousands of strains of compatible dikaryotic mycelium have consolidated. They are pure strains, composed of the collective DNA from the parings.

A little like saying Adam and Eve were the only true individual humans.



Soryy mate but you are 100% incorrect. I've outlined in detail why thats the case. That is all.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 2
    #28365680 -

Don't forget you're talking to a guy who recommends fanning.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28365687 -

Nothing I said in my last post is even controversial. Your only evidence is “because I said so”. 

We still consider you an Individual, yet you are just a conglomeration of genetic material combined.

Sectoring plates from a T2 do not fruit consistently.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Chamo]
    #28365689 -

Okie dokie.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28365712 -

Chamo said:
Nothing I said in my last post is even controversial. Your only evidence is “because I said so”. 

We still consider you an Individual, yet you are just a conglomeration of genetic material combined.

Sectoring plates from a T2 do not fruit consistently.



Perhaps you will enjoy this thread...

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27958711

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28365722 -

Chamo said:
Nothing I said in my last post is even controversial. Your only evidence is “because I said so”. 

We still consider you an Individual, yet you are just a conglomeration of genetic material combined.

Sectoring plates from a T2 do not fruit consistently.



I fruit T2 plates all the time if they look clean, they going to grain. If its MS then I choose fruits to clone that have characteristics I like. Then I'll fruit T2 plates of those clones if they look clean. Everything is consistent and uniform all the time and is never anywhere near the realm of an isolate.


--------------------

Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: rumfor69] * 1
    #28365726 -

:whathesaid:

clones have generally been super consistent in fruiting habits ime. from a practical standpoint cloning is about as far as any reasonable grower needs to go down the genetic isolation rabbithole


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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: hazyhorse] * 5
    #28365736 -

What chomo is saying is utter nonsense. Don't feed the trolls.

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