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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Pinkey] * 2
    #28363180 -

It is true that sterility can never be guaranteed but proper industrial sterilization makes your chances really good.

"At present, a sterility assurance level (SAL) of 10–6 is generally accepted for pharmacopoeial sterilization procedures, i.e., a probability of not more than one viable microorganism in an amount of one million sterilised items of the final product."

If you keep reading you see that for medical devices they may have to settle for a lower SAL, maybe even 1 in 1000, if the device cannot handle more aggressive conditions.

I cannot yet find a reference that discusses the SAL of a steam autoclave, much less a pressure canner. However I did find a reference suggesting that the same one in a million chance is expected for food products, which are basically pressure canned.

"The objective is the universal maximum probability of a single nonsterile unit (PNSU) in 106 units (a PNSU of 1 × 10–6 for any individual item). This is nothing more than an acceptable risk of contamination, whose origin (in the food industry) goes back many years."

(What complicates this discussion is that the reduction of microorganisms is also discussed in terms of logarithmic reduction. But if you kill off all but one in a million bugs in a jar, that is not the same as having the processed item's probability of nonsterility being one in a million.)

Anyway, my take is things like grain jars and LC can be treated as if truly sterile if processed correctly. After all, we can food the same way and it is expected to last for years. Additional complications like leaving jar lids loose during processing, or the quality of our filter patches probably hurt our odds, but for now my philosophy is to process carefully, and then trust the jars. If I happen to leave a sterile grain jar on a shelf and it gets gross in a couple of months, I will reassess.

(Hmm, actually, I should do that... make a test jar with my regular lid style, and just leave it alone to see what happens in the next year.)


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We have not succeeded in answering all our problems. The answers we have found only serve to raise a whole set of new questions. In some ways we feel we are as confused as ever, but we believe we are confused on a higher level and about more important things. -- Earl C. Kelley

Things I really wish I knew when I started // Vacuum sealer discussion thread // Shroomery gif zoo

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Yuggoth]
    #28363187 -

is it necessary or recommended even, to pasteurize a verm / peet casing layer?  If read multiple threads, most are very old and get mixed conclusions.  Thanks in advance.
.


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Just Random Crap

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: jrc5]
    #28363189 -

I would recommend coir over peat, for cubes at least and coir doesn't usually need to be pasteurized. You can use verm along with coir, which I do, but it's not necessarily required.


--------------------
How to post pictures to shroomery TEK

Shroomery Trusted Cultivator And Member YouTube Channels.

“Evey Hammond: Who are you?
V: Who? Who is but the form following the function of what and what I am is a man in a mask.
Evey Hammond: Well I can see that.
V: Of course you can. I'm not questioning your powers of observation I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is”


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: johnukguy] * 5
    #28363195 -

There’s a bunch of ppls accounts of using peat straight from the bag or jiffy mix but you’re taking a risk.  I’ve bought bags of jiffy that were already moldy before I even opened the bags.  It can depend where you live tho… I live in a place that’s very wet during the winter which is when I grow.  If you live in an area that’s cold and dry when you’re growing, you probably have a better chance of using it without pasteurizing. 

If you’re going to be using a casing layer, I don’t think it’s worth the risk of ruining all the efforts it took to get to that point.  Pasteurizing isn’t hard. 

Here’s my take on casing prep if you need it

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Yuggoth] * 1
    #28363223 -

Yuggoth said:
It is true that sterility can never be guaranteed but proper industrial sterilization makes your chances really good.

"At present, a sterility assurance level (SAL) of 10–6 is generally accepted for pharmacopoeial sterilization procedures, i.e., a probability of not more than one viable microorganism in an amount of one million sterilised items of the final product."

If you keep reading you see that for medical devices they may have to settle for a lower SAL, maybe even 1 in 1000, if the device cannot handle more aggressive conditions.

I cannot yet find a reference that discusses the SAL of a steam autoclave, much less a pressure canner. However I did find a reference suggesting that the same one in a million chance is expected for food products, which are basically pressure canned.

"The objective is the universal maximum probability of a single nonsterile unit (PNSU) in 106 units (a PNSU of 1 × 10–6 for any individual item). This is nothing more than an acceptable risk of contamination, whose origin (in the food industry) goes back many years."

(What complicates this discussion is that the reduction of microorganisms is also discussed in terms of logarithmic reduction. But if you kill off all but one in a million bugs in a jar, that is not the same as having the processed item's probability of nonsterility being one in a million.)

Anyway, my take is things like grain jars and LC can be treated as if truly sterile if processed correctly. After all, we can food the same way and it is expected to last for years. Additional complications like leaving jar lids loose during processing, or the quality of our filter patches probably hurt our odds, but for now my philosophy is to process carefully, and then trust the jars. If I happen to leave a sterile grain jar on a shelf and it gets gross in a couple of months, I will reassess.

(Hmm, actually, I should do that... make a test jar with my regular lid style, and just leave it alone to see what happens in the next year.)



I agree; for our purposes, with proper preparation and technique, you can consider properly prepared and PCed/autoclaved/sterilized jars and other media "sterile." However, I think it is essential for people to understand the limitations of our processes/techniques. People should understand that sterility is not so black and white. People new to the hobby often think because they PCed something for 90 mins at 15 psi, it's "sterile," no matter what, and many more factors are involved than the PSI and cooking time.

In his grain prep video, P9 gives an excellent example of this when he talks about rinsing overburden from your grain because it's a barrier to sterility.

If you do not understand the limitations of your techniques and tools, it is difficult or near impossible to problem-solve when things go wrong.

Another example, I lived in a place that was at sea level most of my life, and that is where I began cultivating. Years later, I moved to a place that was 4500 ft above sea level. I started prepping my jars as I did at sea level 2.5 hours at 15 psi. Every single batch became bacterial. It wasn't until I adjusted for elevation and started cooking at 20 psi that I started getting clean grain—just one more factor to consider.


--------------------
"Looky here, baby... You're hittin' them cornaz too goddamn fast.  You need to slow this muthafucka down.  Ya understand?  I almost spilt my yack on this $200 suit, nicca.  C'mon, baby, get it togetha."

Pinky


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: thirdeyewild] * 1
    #28363315 -

When you say daily for the mini/microdose, is that without any breaks at all, so continuously?


--------------------
How to post pictures to shroomery TEK

Shroomery Trusted Cultivator And Member YouTube Channels.

“Evey Hammond: Who are you?
V: Who? Who is but the form following the function of what and what I am is a man in a mask.
Evey Hammond: Well I can see that.
V: Of course you can. I'm not questioning your powers of observation I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is”


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: johnukguy]
    #28363334 -

Since I’ve started back in December I’ll take .3-5 every other week and a bigger dose every other month. Recently haven’t done anything to my surprise. Shrooms man! Can’t wait for my next dose, whenever that may be lol.

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Proposition 122]
    #28363370 -

Proposition 122 said:
I have this:

[url=https://files.shroomery.org/files/23-24/697286959-Shroomery.png]



Can someone tell me why this appeared as a url instead of a photo?


--------------------
"Let yourself be silently drawn by the strange pull of what you really love. It will not lead you astray." – Divan-e-Shams

How to upload Photos

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery

Fruiting Cubes


Golden Teachers

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MSS plate to grain? [Re: Nichrome] * 1
    #28363390 -

I used my MSS on my PDA agar plate 3 weeks ago and took a few sectors to grow.

Thinking about throwing the entire remainder of the plate into grain, basically obviously a bunch of random phenotypes from the spores but looks clean.
Terrible idea? Good idea?

Pic is a week old, plate fully colonized now.

Edited by MicroMycelium (06/17/23 05:00 PM)

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Re: MSS plate to grain? [Re: MicroMycelium]
    #28363398 -

it’s a gamble 100% but people have sent germ plates to grain before & been fine. if you have a jar you don’t mind potentially tossing, why not?


--------------------
you're not the first to set foot here, just another
===================================
i love glass petris & you can too!!
posts i constantly refer back to
new to mushroom cultivation?? read this!!
===================================

🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼    🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿

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Re: MSS plate to grain? [Re: MicroMycelium]
    #28363403 -

Can be good, spore plates are fun and you’ll be working with more phenos to choose from.

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: johnukguy]
    #28363408 -

johnukguy said:
When you say daily for the mini/microdose, is that without any breaks at all, so continuously?



Yes continuously.


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: thirdeyewild] * 9
    #28363414 -

Hey yall, first time grower here about to harvest my first batch. I was wondering to see if the bigger boys in my tub are ready for harvest. I'm growing PE btw


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: veazyy] * 2
    #28363422 -

harvest when the stipes get soft, if they are firm at all let ‘em go longer. beautiful tub mate!! you killed it for a first grow. :cheers:


--------------------
you're not the first to set foot here, just another
===================================
i love glass petris & you can too!!
posts i constantly refer back to
new to mushroom cultivation?? read this!!
===================================

🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼    🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: hazyhorse]
    #28363424 -

Excellent job there, congratulations!


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How do pirates clone their mushrooms?

        With agarrrrrr.:captain::captain:

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Is this contamination or no? Newbie concerns [Re: Nichrome]
    #28363457 -

I inoculated a few bags almost three days ago with some spore syringes that looked as if myco had started in them. Followed all proper methods and practices and almost 3 days later now i can see this kind of whispy white stuff forming not just around the bottom of the bags where they were inoculated but also at the tops of the bags and im not quite sure what it is... I took some pics. Im a newbie cultivator so im a bit worried. Theres no sour or strange smell coming out of the filter patch. Just smells earthy.



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Re: Is this contamination or no? Newbie concerns [Re: enigmatrip]
    #28363474 -

Not sure what im looking for. It looks like light reflecting off bag crinkles?

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Re: Is this contamination or no? Newbie concerns [Re: enigmatrip]
    #28363480 -

Three days seems too soon for spores to germinate and start growing.  Spores to grains is never a good idea, it's a recipe for contamination. Spores should always be germinated on agar and transferred to ensure clean mycelium.


--------------------
How do pirates clone their mushrooms?

        With agarrrrrr.:captain::captain:

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Re: Is this contamination or no? Newbie concerns [Re: sprocket]
    #28363497 -

If you look at the tops of the bags you can see white whispy stuff. The spore syringes i gpt from tmu looked exactly like liquid culture tho.

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Re: Is this contamination or no? Newbie concerns [Re: enigmatrip]
    #28363507 -

Ill just keep waiting. I still have a couple syringes i didnt use. Ill order some agar plates to make sure the syringes are good. Thx for the quick replies.

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Shop: MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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