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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives 32
#27808630 - 06/06/22 05:29 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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So, you've decided to try and grow some mushrooms ๐ You do a quick online search so you can get the right supplies... you find a vendor that has spore syringes and another vendor that has pre-strrilized grain jars/bags (or you take the time to prepare your own jars/bags).. You're extra careful and take every precaution when you inoculate your grain. You built a SAB, you followed sterile technique, and you waited for colonization...
A couple weeks later, you go to The Shroomery to post a picture and ask "how does this look?"... and everyone tells you that your spawn looks bacterial/contaminated. Sound familiar?
How can this be? You bought your spores from a trusted vendor and you were soo careful when you inoculated your grain.. It's frustrating, right? 
Here's what went wrong:
You inoculated your grains with a spore syringe. ...I know... I know.. the bag/jar has an inoculation port, so it must be for a spore syringe?!
Unfortunately, this is incorrect. The port is actually intended for a LC (Liquid Culture) or LI (Liquid Inoculant) but vendors can't sell you a pre-made LC/LI for "magic mushrooms" due to the legality. Spore syringes can be sold legally for microscopy purposes because they don't contain the active components psilocybin or psilocin. LC/LI's are pre-germinated, (hopefully) clean, cultures that are ready to go to grain.
Why won't a spore syringe work?
Spore syringes are inherently contaminated due to the fact that we don't fruit in a sterile environment. When the cap of a fruit opens to release spores, it is exposed to any bacteria or mold spores in it's enviromemt. Mold and bacteria are EVERYWHERE. We breathe in mold spores every day.
Even if the vendor/cultivator is very careful and collects their spores and prepares the syringe in a SAB or in front of a flow hood, there is still a very high chance that bacteria or mold has found its way in to the syringe.
So, when you inoculated your grains, the contamination was able to thrive due to the nutritional content of the grains.
Yes, it is possible to have a successful grow using this method, but it's a gamble. The odds are stacked against you due to a contamination vector that is outside of your control.
What can you do differently next time to greatly increase your odds of success?
Well, you have a couple of options to choose from.
Option #1: PF Tek
Your first option is to start with a PF Tek grow. This is your best option if you're looking to inoculate directly using spores.
PF Tek is a very beginner friendly method of growing mushrooms ๐ it is more contam resistant, so you don't run into the same issues as you would with grains when using spores.
I highly recommend getting at least one PF Tek grow under your belt while you're learning the basics.
You can always shred the cakes to bulk using a Shoebox Tek so it's a very good tool to teach yourself Proper Surface Conditions and the other fundamentals of cultivation.
Don't believe everything you read about PF Tek cakes having low yields. Check out these cakes
Option #2: Agar
Agar can seem like a lot of work and it may seem complex. A lot of people avoid it at first because of these reasons. Agar is not actually difficult. After your first couple attempts you will start to understand the basics and have a foundation to grow from. Agar opens a whole new world of possibilities in this hobby. Do yourself a favor and start agar asap.
I personally recommend doing both option #1 & #2 at the same time and developing both skills while keeping a constant rotation of different projects.. This will highly accelerate the learning process.
There are 2 different ways of doing agar. Pour, and no-pour.. A lot of people start with a no-pour tek like this one and eventually start pouring their own plates..
The agar recipe I personally use is this one
You can inoculate agar plates with spores and do transfers until you have a clean culture to work with. Then you can use a wedge of agar with clean mycelium to inoculate your grain jars.. You can also use a wedge to make LC/LI. However, it is recommended to hold of on doing this until you know that your agar skills are good and you're working with a clean culture.


I really hope that some of you find this information useful. It seems like one of the most common noob mistakes that pops up on the forums is the use of spores to inoculate grains. I decided it was time to do a write-up that explains why this is discouraged and provide an explanation of the recommend methods.
Edited by Rotnpins (09/13/22 06:07 PM)
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san pedro guy
Captain



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 3
#27808655 - 06/06/22 05:54 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Nice write up! 
Hopefully some see it BEFORE that post that never dies 
What is the benefit of pouring plates? I do holy grails and never understood why I would fumble around in the sab trying to pour plates when I can pour them before pc and I can measure the pour so they are all the sameโฆ
-------------------- Noob Grow Along 2022
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: san pedro guy] 1
#27808663 - 06/06/22 06:01 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks san pedro guy! I've been thinking about doing it for a while. Hopefully it helps some people out... I'm personally going to link it to noobs instead of typing the same shit all the time
I just personally started pouring, but I also fill my PC with no-pours when prepping the agar.. I like the no-pours because they're ready by the next day (or sooner) but the plates I poured have WAY better visibility.. I've had a lot of problems trying to take good pictures of my no pours (both ziplock twist tops & holy grails) to get advice, but my poured plates are crystal clear
Edited by Rotnpins (06/06/22 06:05 PM)
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MrBlueshrooms



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27808673 - 06/06/22 06:09 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Solid post! 
Also with holy grails it is easy to make variations to a few plates. A little softer agar for germination for example by adding a splash of extra water.
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: MrBlueshrooms] 2
#27808681 - 06/06/22 06:13 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MrBlueshrooms said: Solid post! 
Also with holy grails it is easy to make variations to a few plates. A little softer agar for germination for example by adding a splash of extra water.
Thanks! Very true. I hadn't thought of doing that.. personally I think I'm going to continue doing both pour and no pour... but I'm kinda weird like that.. I do about half my projects grain and the other half Pf Tek.. and I split the Pf Tek, half cakes and half shredded to shoeboxes.. I guess I just enjoy mixing things up and learning as many ways of doing things as I can.
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P.Nowhere



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 3
#27808689 - 06/06/22 06:17 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I saw this and it made me smile.
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DEZn00ts
The Wizard of The Midwest



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: P.Nowhere] 1
#27808696 - 06/06/22 06:21 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Lol.
--------------------
  "it's genetic. Asians are better at math if born in America or Asia. Black people run faster born in Africa or America. White people are still more racist no matter where they were born either. it's genetic." -bodhisatta
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TheTimelessDon
The Don


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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 2
#27808708 - 06/06/22 06:34 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Love it! You're so willing to help in the threads, and this is great! Happy you're finding something you're passionate about too
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cozmyc
gentle modern ape


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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27808712 - 06/06/22 06:37 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Huzzah! Straight to the good points. This is much appreciated. I have a couple grows under my belt, starting with agar now and wished I would have started from the git! If I could rate I would
Edited by cozmyc (06/06/22 06:40 PM)
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: TheTimelessDon] 2
#27808713 - 06/06/22 06:37 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheTimelessDon said: Love it! You're so willing to help in the threads, and this is great! Happy you're finding something you're passionate about too

Thanks man! I recently made some big changes in my life and got clean from all hard drugs. This hobby has been a huge blessing for me, and I get a lot of enjoyment out of trying my best to help other people on their journey into mycology.
Sometimes I think I spend too much time on here (1,100 posts since January is A LOT) but its a lot better than most of the other things I was doing with my time
Edited by Rotnpins (06/06/22 06:39 PM)
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: cozmyc]
#27808715 - 06/06/22 06:41 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
cozmyc said: Huzzah! Straight to the good points. Thus is much appreciated. I have a couple grows under my belt, starting with agar now and wished I would have started from the git! of I could rate I would 
Thank you! I'm glad you found it helpful. I think this is a topic that has really needed a thread that can be used as reference.
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KROM
Local Oaf



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27808736 - 06/06/22 06:57 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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--------------------
๐
๐ด ๐ฐ ๐ผ ๐ฒ ๐ป ๐ธ ๐ฝ ๐ถ ๐
๐
๐ฐ ๐ฟ
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high_desert
Pipe and Paper Afternoon



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: TheTimelessDon] 2
#27808758 - 06/06/22 07:14 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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You have to ask yourself: what makes pf tek more resilient to the inherent bacteria in spore solution? I think nutrient density is a factor but a big part must be water content. The germination time gives bacteria a huge head start and when you have slimy soupy conditions in your bag or jar it's just asking for trouble. And then you're adding even more water via the spore solution too..
This is why I think drier, unpopped grains with highly uniform water content are essential if you're going to do multispore to grain.
Pf tek has sort of built-in water content adjustment and uniformity and with agar to grain the water content shouldn't be quite as important because bacteria doesn't have that time it takes your spores to germinate as a head start. These are my theories anyway..
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CreonAntigone
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: high_desert] 2
#27808899 - 06/06/22 08:53 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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This logic may apply more to cubensis as opposed to stone producers.
I used a spore syringe of 'mexicana Jalisco' to knock up a few jars back when I was just starting. I soaked wheat, I wanted to soak it 1 night but I ended up leaving it for two. Then I steamed the grain jars on the stove for 2 hours each, just like what is recommended for of tek jars. I used 1-3cc spore solution per jar, and I inoculated them in a side room with the windows closed to minimize airflow (rather than a still air box).
So, despite all these parameters being subpar - steamed grains instead of pressure cooked, no still air box, spores to grain - I still got good stones. 4 jars failed and I did 11 - so 7/11, not the worst rate in the world.
All jars colonized within 3 months but it took 6 to form sclerotia, 8 or more to complete it.
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Ashtray161
SettledNomad



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: CreonAntigone] 1
#27822517 - 06/16/22 01:01 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Nice write up
--------------------
(You Know What Time It Is) Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27677086 "You never have to prove the fool a fool, just let them speak." Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED. Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312
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Rotnpins
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Ashtray161]
#27822623 - 06/16/22 01:52 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ashtray161 said: Nice write up 
Thanks man, I appreciate it!
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Rotnpins
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins]
#27830165 - 06/21/22 10:50 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Maybe I should update this to include a section about UB
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cozmyc
gentle modern ape



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 2
#27830243 - 06/21/22 11:42 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Just felt I needed to come back to yell STICKY!
-------------------- You're conscious population 2 stardust ---------------------- and that's valuable
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MycoRob



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: cozmyc] 1
#27830288 - 06/21/22 12:24 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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This is helpful, thanks! BTW, I am aware of at least one online seller of psilocybe LC syringes (PM for details) that I have used with success so if beginners can find pre-made LC it may help ease people into it without the concern of having to do agar work on a first attempt.
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Seamonkey84
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: MycoRob] 1
#27830353 - 06/21/22 01:08 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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There are many vendors on IG that sell fully cultured agar plates, not sure why they donโt just do LC. I started with cultures from a IG vendor a buddy recommended, Iโve got many cultures in the fridge and Iโve yet to try any thing from spores.
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redcrow

Registered: 03/25/22
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 2
#27830576 - 06/21/22 03:29 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Excellent write up! Now I know why the grain bag I nocked with a spore syringe didn't look quite like it should have I still dumped it into a shoe box with some CVG media, and it did give me a few nice clusters of mushrooms, but nothing to write home about.
That experience is what sparked me to try agar. Made most of the noob mistakes in the catalog, but I've finally got most of them sorted.
Like you, I'm doing PF-tek in parallel since I've had ongoing success with that method.
Another reason to continue doing BFR cakes is that colonized jars can be another usable source of genetics for agar work I think. I recently dissected a few small pieces of mycelial "rope" from a fully colonized jar when I birthed it. A sterilized scalpel and forceps and some dexterity were all I needed. Put a few of those to agar and they produced some surprisingly clean colonies I've made a few transfers to clean plates, and the growth I'm seeing looks really good. Hope to be spawning them to grain soon.
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Ashtray161
SettledNomad



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: MycoRob] 1
#27830672 - 06/21/22 04:53 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MycoRob said: This is helpful, thanks! BTW, I am aware of at least one online seller of psilocybe LC syringes (PM for details) that I have used with success so if beginners can find pre-made LC it may help ease people into it without the concern of having to do agar work on a first attempt.
Careful here mate, selling or trading of illegal items is not allowed on shroomery.
--------------------
(You Know What Time It Is) Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27677086 "You never have to prove the fool a fool, just let them speak." Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED. Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312
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MycoRob



Registered: 06/20/22
Posts: 55
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Ashtray161]
#27830762 - 06/21/22 05:46 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ashtray161 said:
Quote:
MycoRob said: This is helpful, thanks! BTW, I am aware of at least one online seller of psilocybe LC syringes (PM for details) that I have used with success so if beginners can find pre-made LC it may help ease people into it without the concern of having to do agar work on a first attempt.
Careful here mate, selling or trading of illegal items is not allowed on shroomery.
Lol itโs not me selling or trading I just know of a website
Edited by MycoRob (06/21/22 05:47 PM)
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SGV
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: MycoRob] 1
#27830829 - 06/21/22 06:49 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Back when I first started the 'go to' way was still squirting onto grains. (PF tek was still pretty new) and I had seriously mixed results doing this back then (and even getting back into the hobby now)
Mostly poor.
Spore to Grain showed me the gamut of black mold, lipstick mold, and a couple of others before I started pouring agar.
I look at it like this : 24 hours of a grain soak (or couple of hours of a boil) 2 hour PC session of your grain jar(s)
OR
Using your grain water and agar agar, few drops of food coloring and 20 mins of PC (and a cooldown period) I even have a solidified container of sterilized agar waiting to be heated and poured.
Much less 'work' and a more conducive medium to isolate contams vs goodies.
Can't much easily do a 'grain jar' cleanup like you can with agar. And its cheaper.
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: redcrow] 2
#27830997 - 06/21/22 08:53 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
redcrow said: Excellent write up! Now I know why the grain bag I nocked with a spore syringe didn't look quite like it should have 
Awesome! I'm really glad you guys are finding the write up useful.
I personally think every noob should read this information at least once 
I agree with you about transferring from brf to agar to start with a semi-clean culture.. there is actually a tek that utilizes this called PF Pucks... I'm pretty sure it's what josex uses.. I've seen it mentioned a few times, but every time I've tried looking for an actual write up I haven't been able to find one 
I personally hate doing spore syringe to agar. If I'm working with a syringe I pretty much always do a PF Tek grow, even if it's just one or 2 cakes. That way I can start my agar work with either clone tissue, a print, a swab, or a mycelium transfer like you mentioned.
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san pedro guy
Captain



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27831109 - 06/21/22 11:19 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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it can take some time but you can sterilize a empty hg plate, squirt some spore solution on it and wait for it to dry to use spores instead of squirting directly to agarโฆ.I donโt like syringes either and I think this makes it last way longer too since you only need a tiny amount of spores to put on agar
-------------------- Noob Grow Along 2022
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SeaSalt



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 3
#27831173 - 06/22/22 12:54 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rotnpins said:
Quote:
redcrow said: Excellent write up! Now I know why the grain bag I nocked with a spore syringe didn't look quite like it should have 
Awesome! I'm really glad you guys are finding the write up useful.
I personally think every noob should read this information at least once 
I agree with you about transferring from brf to agar to start with a semi-clean culture.. there is actually a tek that utilizes this called PF Pucks... I'm pretty sure it's what josex uses.. I've seen it mentioned a few times, but every time I've tried looking for an actual write up I haven't been able to find one 
I personally hate doing spore syringe to agar. If I'm working with a syringe I pretty much always do a PF Tek grow, even if it's just one or 2 cakes. That way I can start my agar work with either clone tissue, a print, a swab, or a mycelium transfer like you mentioned.
I started with MS to BRF cakes and agar. 22 of 24 cakes contaminated and about 150 plates. Feeling totally defeated, I made a bunch of brf pucks and inoculated each with a drop or two of MS. BOOM! It was more successful than I could have imagined. Now I have more healthy plates than I can manage. Pucks pin like crazy too. I recently started throwing my fully colonized pucks into fahtlocks for spore prints. Pucks saved me until my SAB skills caught up. Germination, transfers, pins, Ziploc's, they are multi-use and noob friendly.
-------------------- Avatar by Sol_Exposure
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Ashtray161
SettledNomad



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: MycoRob]
#27831195 - 06/22/22 01:56 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MycoRob said:
Quote:
Ashtray161 said:
Quote:
MycoRob said: This is helpful, thanks! BTW, I am aware of at least one online seller of psilocybe LC syringes (PM for details) that I have used with success so if beginners can find pre-made LC it may help ease people into it without the concern of having to do agar work on a first attempt.
Careful here mate, selling or trading of illegal items is not allowed on shroomery.
Lol itโs not me selling or trading I just know of a website
Just a friendly reminder mate
--------------------
(You Know What Time It Is) Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27677086 "You never have to prove the fool a fool, just let them speak." Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED. Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312
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helioo
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27845092 - 07/01/22 02:20 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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As a total noob doing research, thanks for this!
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: helioo]
#27845109 - 07/01/22 02:31 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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No problem, hope it helps & welcome to the shroomery!
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Ashtray161
SettledNomad



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins]
#27846203 - 07/02/22 09:14 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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--------------------
(You Know What Time It Is) Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27677086 "You never have to prove the fool a fool, just let them speak." Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED. Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312
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jungatheart
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Ashtray161] 2
#27854799 - 07/08/22 01:00 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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As a newbie Really appreciate this write up.
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27863634 - 07/15/22 11:39 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Found this little gem earlier
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cooleko
Augmentum provocatus

Registered: 08/15/22
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27906757 - 08/17/22 01:20 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Where was this advice when I started!? It is so true. Thank you for posting this.
Adding to the examples of Spore to Grain gone wrong:
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Ashtray161
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: cooleko] 1
#27908226 - 08/18/22 01:41 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
cooleko said: Where was this advice when I started!? It is so true. Thank you for posting this.
Adding to the examples of Spore to Grain gone wrong:

Sometimes you just have to learn the hard way :P
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(You Know What Time It Is) Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27677086 "You never have to prove the fool a fool, just let them speak." Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED. Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312
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CJD



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 2
#27917207 - 08/24/22 07:36 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks so much for this write up. I've been through all the TEKs & tons of researching in the forum. Although I've seen this info all around you definitely laid it out perfectly. I've got all the supplies to start my first attempt. I'm going to go with MSS to agar in the next few days to jump in with both feet.
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KROM
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: CJD] 1
#27917223 - 08/24/22 07:46 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Rotnpins
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: CJD]
#27917267 - 08/24/22 08:24 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
CJD said: Thanks so much for this write up. I've been through all the TEKs & tons of researching in the forum. Although I've seen this info all around you definitely laid it out perfectly. I've got all the supplies to start my first attempt. I'm going to go with MSS to agar in the next few days to jump in with both feet.
Awesome! I'm really glad you found the write up useful ๐ Welcome to the Shroomery and good luck with your first grow!
Don't be afraid to ask questions. There are so many amazing cultivators on the forums with tons of knowledge that they're willing to share with you, all you have to do it's ask. Be sure to post pictures of your progress when asking questions specifically about your current grow. It makes it a lot easier to diagnose any problems and help point you in the right direction..
If you're starting agar for the first time, I highly recommend bookmarking this thread. It is a great place to post pictures of your plates and ask questions.
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Moonarie


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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27917625 - 08/25/22 05:02 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Really helpful! The agar is the most beautiful!
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Moonarie


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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Moonarie] 2
#27917644 - 08/25/22 05:26 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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So, one thing is stil not explained here: why does spore to grain is likely to contaminate, but spore to PF Tek isn't?
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uninc4life2010
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Moonarie]
#27917697 - 08/25/22 06:21 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonarie said: So, one thing is stil not explained here: why does spore to grain is likely to contaminate, but spore to PF Tek isn't?
I'd like to know this, too.
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DERRAYLD
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: uninc4life2010] 2
#27917703 - 08/25/22 06:26 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Grain is very prone to contamination due to the complex nutrient profile. Pf is far more user friendly from this standpoint as it does not promote contamination.
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Rotnpins
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 2
#27917794 - 08/25/22 08:05 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Also you break up the grain when you shake/spawn it, so any small amount of contamination is able to spread quickly..
This is the reason why it's better to top fruit grain jars that have less than ideal spawn.
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Seamonkey84
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Moonarie]
#27918065 - 08/25/22 12:01 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonarie said: So, one thing is stil not explained here: why does spore to grain is likely to contaminate, but spore to PF Tek isn't?
Kinda explained here, as far as bacteria goes. Mold is another issue.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24806569#24806569
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clone63
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Seamonkey84]
#27918081 - 08/25/22 12:18 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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For the sake of what is easier or harder to contaminate.. What is considered grain? Obviously rye, wheat, oat.. What of popcorn, WBS, or grass seed as far as contamination susceptibility? I would think popcorn might be a little more resistant but that's based on nothing, lol.
Would casing a grain jar with verm before sterilizing, like PF cakes offer any kind of.. 'filtration?'
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B Traven
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Moonarie] 1
#27918084 - 08/25/22 12:26 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonarie said: So, one thing is stil not explained here: why does spore to grain is likely to contaminate, but spore to PF Tek isn't?
What everyone else said, for sure.
My essay:
First, we need to differentiate between a few different sorts of contaminants.
Scenario #1: Let's say you somehow got a syringe just completely loaded with black mold spores. Those things are going to germinate and grow wherever they end up, whether it's a PF jar, a grain jar, or an agar plate.
Scenario #2: Let's say you didn't have very good sterile technique, and managed to introduce some nasty airborne contaminants to your uncolonized substrate. Those are also probably going to run rampant and kill your culture. However, PF cakes will be less susceptible to such an occurrence, because you're merely introducing a flamed needle via an injection hole. Still possible, but much less likely, even if you're not all that great at sterile work yet. If you're using a dry verm layer, that adds another layer of protection as well.
Scenario #3: Let's say you messed up your sterilization, and didn't fully sterilize the contents of your container. This is much less likely to happen with PF jars, because they're small containers filled with a homogeneous mixture that has a uniform moisture content. So they'll get up to sterilizing temperatures much faster, and can even be sterilized at the boiling point of water if need be.
Scenario #4 (probably happens more often than not): There are insidious bacterial contaminants in your spore solution. They germinate (or just revive) and start growing along with the myc.
On agar, you might be able to disentangle them from you culture via sequential transfers and other techniques.
In grain or BRF, you have no way of doing that, and they'll be with you for the haul. However, with grain, they'll have a much better shot at getting the upper hand. Every time you shake the jars, the myc is getting damaged while the bacteria are basically just getting distributed more. When you spawn to tubs, the myc is once again getting damaged, while the bacteria are getting a nice shot of fresh air to fuel their growth. With PF cakes, the myc has a chance to consolidate and completely take over the surface of the cake without additional disturbance. It will also typically do this quite quickly, and not leave huge chunks of the container to hang out for weeks in a vulnerable state. With the bacteria mostly sealed up in the interior of the cake, the culture can usually overcome them long enough to fruit a few times.
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
Edited by B Traven (08/25/22 12:27 PM)
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B Traven
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: clone63]
#27918104 - 08/25/22 12:42 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
clone63 said: For the sake of what is easier or harder to contaminate.. What is considered grain? Obviously rye, wheat, oat.. What of popcorn, WBS, or grass seed as far as contamination susceptibility? I would think popcorn might be a little more resistant but that's based on nothing, lol.
Would casing a grain jar with verm before sterilizing, like PF cakes offer any kind of.. 'filtration?'
Basically, anything that still has intact seeds and, normally, a hull. The idea is that they have endospores, form a more complex matrix to try to hydrate and sterilize, take longer to reach temperature, etc.
Super small grains like millet may sort of sit on the cusp, conceptually speaking.
It's not technically casing, just a dry verm layer. I guess that under the exact correct circumstances it might help a little bit, but it would be kind of pointless unless you were injecting a liquid inoculant PF style and then never disturbing your jars. In my particular case, my jars don't have taped-up holes on the lid, just a hole with synthetic filter covering it. I'm unscrewing and lifting my lids up to inoculate with an agar wedge or grain from another jar, then tightening the lid down and giving the jar a shake. If I mess up on sterile technique at that point, then nothing will save me. To add vermiculite after that would involve re-opening the jar, adding another contamination vector to the process. I also then typically shake a couple more times before spawning, and at that point the verm would just be distributed all over and serve no purpose.
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
Edited by B Traven (08/25/22 12:43 PM)
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the_chosen_one
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: B Traven] 1
#27918603 - 08/25/22 05:38 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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I hate to be skeptic but I'm failing to understand how the PF Tek is less prone to contamination than a grain jar when it's the same thing. Spores going to grain. This is a great write up and I admire the passion.. knowing this took some time and effort. I guess I'm the Yang to the Yin in this case. I grow via a lot of different methods, but my most common option is spores to grain just because of the simplicity. My success rate is easily 98% making my own syringes and maybe just a little lower using vendor supplied. Like I said.. not trying to be negative. It's just this topic always leaves me a bit confused. Maybe it's because I started the long route with agar (and still use it today) but eventually worked myself back to the simple.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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Ashtray161
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 1
#27918614 - 08/25/22 05:42 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
the_chosen_one said: I hate to be skeptic but I'm failing to understand how the PF Tek is less prone to contamination than a grain jar when it's the same thing. Spores going to grain. This is a great write up and I admire the passion.. knowing this took some time and effort. I guess I'm the Yang to the Yin in this case. I grow via a lot of different methods, but my most common option is spores to grain just because of the simplicity. My success rate is easily 98% making my own syringes and maybe just a little lower using vendor supplied. Like I said.. not trying to be negative. It's just this topic always leaves me a bit confused. Maybe it's because I started the long route with agar (and still use it today) but eventually worked myself back to the simple.

(EDIT: The Chosen One is a legend, they're way more experienced than I am, listen to them over me lol)
Its really very simple mate and has been explained SO many times. PF Tek and Brown Rice Flower (BRF) are naturally resistant to bacteria. Grains with their complex nutrient profile are begging to be contaminated with bacteria and every mold under the sun. I promise you mate, and anyone who reads this in the future, the pros here arent saying this over and over again on a hunch. Its been proven, scientifically, over and over again by experimentation. Theres solid data. Its conclusive, theres no debate.
I dont mean to be a dick but I highly doubt your success rates are 98%. Pics or it didnt happen. If you set up a properly formatted grow and show me that out 9 of 10 grain jars shot with spores you were able to get 9 of them perfectly clean I might retract that lol.
Spores to grain can work, of course, but its a gamble that is not necessary, wastes materials and time, and can be avoided with a very simple step.
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(You Know What Time It Is) Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27677086 "You never have to prove the fool a fool, just let them speak." Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED. Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312
Edited by Ashtray161 (08/25/22 05:53 PM)
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the_chosen_one
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Ashtray161] 1
#27918627 - 08/25/22 05:47 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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I've been doing this longer than most of you have been alive. Not trying to be a dick but pics are in my gallery.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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Ashtray161
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 1
#27918631 - 08/25/22 05:49 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
the_chosen_one said:
I've been doing this longer than most of you have been alive. Not trying to be a dick but pics are in my gallery. 
Oh i actually didnt realize who I was talking to lmao, I take my statement back, Ill believe you lol. you have the pics afterall xD
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(You Know What Time It Is) Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27677086 "You never have to prove the fool a fool, just let them speak." Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED. Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312
Edited by Ashtray161 (08/25/22 05:49 PM)
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B Traven
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 3
#27918637 - 08/25/22 05:50 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
the_chosen_one said: I hate to be skeptic but I'm failing to understand how the PF Tek is less prone to contamination than a grain jar when it's the same thing. Spores going to grain. This is a great write up and I admire the passion.. knowing this took some time and effort. I guess I'm the Yang to the Yin in this case. I grow via a lot of different methods, but my most common option is spores to grain just because of the simplicity. My success rate is easily 98% making my own syringes and maybe just a little lower using vendor supplied. Like I said.. not trying to be negative. It's just this topic always leaves me a bit confused. Maybe it's because I started the long route with agar (and still use it today) but eventually worked myself back to the simple.

When I set out to grow bulk in earnest, I started with spores to grain. I was not satisfied with my contamination rate, and I was also not satisfied with my ability to develop and reliably test cultures.
PF tek was initially concieved as a method that didn't even require a pressure cooker. It also requires very little work aside from squirting and then birthing cakes. It really is idiot-proof. And also very forgiving of crappy sterile technique.
To move past that level of autopilot, I find agar to be well worth the slight additional work.
Perhaps your techniques are clean enough that you end up with a relatively low contamination rate despite the use of spores. Maybe your syringes are cleaner than most. Maybe all this other shit just applies to all the much dirtier and clumsier motherfuckers out there.
As for PF tek being different than spores to whole grain, if after all this time you still don't understand or choose to accept the basic physics behind it then there's not much point in the conversation.
Oh, and you don't know me. Don't be trying to guess my age, or how long I done been in the game.
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
Edited by B Traven (08/25/22 06:06 PM)
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the_chosen_one
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: B Traven] 1
#27918699 - 08/25/22 06:34 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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B calm down man. I haven't even read your post yet lol.
I knew this would ruffle feathers. Don't count me out as an asshole just yet. 
Give me some time to get in my door and I'll settle in here in a bit.
Just to be clear 98% is only this step. The majority of my failures come later during the fruiting stage.
BTW. I really like OP and even Ashtray.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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KROM
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one]
#27918727 - 08/25/22 06:46 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Consider me interested.
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Ashtray161
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 3
#27918733 - 08/25/22 06:49 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
the_chosen_one said: B calm down man. I haven't even read your post yet lol.
I knew this would ruffle feathers. Don't count me out as an asshole just yet. 
Give me some time to get in my door and I'll settle in here in a bit.
Just to be clear 98% is only this step. The majority of my failures come later during the fruiting stage.
BTW. I really like OP and even Ashtray. 
Hehe like you too chosen one :3
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(You Know What Time It Is) Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27677086 "You never have to prove the fool a fool, just let them speak." Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED. Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312
Edited by Ashtray161 (08/25/22 07:30 PM)
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Rotnpins
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 5
#27918737 - 08/25/22 06:53 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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I fall asleep on the couch for a couple hours and wake up to this
everybody hug and make up.. there are always going to be those exceptions to the rules. I mean, look at Fahtster... I would never suggest working in open air and not using agar to MOST people, but he sure does make it work for him.
The thing is, results speak for themselves... obviously the_chosen_one has earned his name and can back up his results... however, I'd say it's one of those exceptional situations.
The OP is geared towards those who are new to cultivation and are looking for the tried and true methods that work for the 99%..
Personally, I found the Shroomery during my first grow. I've never even attempted a spore to grain grow. My first grow was PF Tek, and then I started agar.. but there seems to be a trend of newer members showing up with some awful looking spawn because they tried doing MSS to grain this is mostly a quick reference for what went wrong. Also its a PSA for those who haven't started their first grow and want to know the most common route to success.
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Rotnpins
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Ashtray161] 2
#27918739 - 08/25/22 06:55 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ashtray161 said:
Quote:
the_chosen_one said:
BTW. I really like OP and even Ashtray. 
Hehe like you too chose one :3 
Aww I like you guys too
I'm just assuming Ashtray likes me too
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SirPsycho
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 2
#27918740 - 08/25/22 06:55 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
the_chosen_one said: I hate to be skeptic but I'm failing to understand how the PF Tek is less prone to contamination than a grain jar when it's the same thing. Spores going to grain. This is a great write up and I admire the passion.. knowing this took some time and effort. I guess I'm the Yang to the Yin in this case. I grow via a lot of different methods, but my most common option is spores to grain just because of the simplicity. My success rate is easily 98% making my own syringes and maybe just a little lower using vendor supplied. Like I said.. not trying to be negative. It's just this topic always leaves me a bit confused. Maybe it's because I started the long route with agar (and still use it today) but eventually worked myself back to the simple.

The best explanation I've heard is that since BRF cakes are so dense the MSS that was injected can't spread too far so there's a high concentration of spores making it easier for compatible monos to hook up and start the culture. This is supposed help the cube myc beat out contam.
I can see it with bacteria but I really doubt it's beating out any mold.
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Ashtray161
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 2
#27918801 - 08/25/22 07:32 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rotnpins said:
Quote:
Ashtray161 said:
Quote:
the_chosen_one said:
BTW. I really like OP and even Ashtray. 
Hehe like you too chose one :3 
Aww I like you guys too
I'm just assuming Ashtray likes me too 
Of course I do! 
Lol jk jk
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(You Know What Time It Is) Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27677086 "You never have to prove the fool a fool, just let them speak." Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED. Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312
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mushboy
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Ashtray161] 3
#27918821 - 08/25/22 07:45 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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BEST explanation ive heard, and the one that makes the most sense to me, is pf cakes are kept whole and do not need to recover from being broken apart. the breaking apart is what fucks up your colony. recovery goes south. spawn turns to shit.
thats also why lots of older doods dont recommend spawning cakes. because it runs the same risk as spawning grains. i tend to agree.
brf cakes do seem ime to kept bacteria at bay while the myc grows out. this is where the josex no mercy for bacteria tek comes in
when ive made my own syringes and done spores to grains from invirto spores i could get almost 100% but from spores in a tub? mold town.
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the_chosen_one
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: SirPsycho] 4
#27918836 - 08/25/22 07:57 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Ok. Posting on the run. Still haven't read every post yet lol. Exceptional Situation. Not really. Just started diffently than most. Homestead agar kit and before that, stealing chunks of turf, gardens and chip piles to transplant. That's all we had. No internet and few books. Now thereโs such a wealth of resources it's very likely that some are crap. Go to a good time proven vendor if you are new to this. *this message brought to you by Sporeworks* Thinking back PF used to claim contamination resistance and superior potency with BRF. At first I was like yeah whatever. Same weird shit grows on my agar, grain and PF jars. But after trying millet it opened up a whole new world. Got me experimenting with grains in general. So I do agree that brown rice feeds less of the nasties we need to worry about. The method itself requires less sterilization work. It can even be done in a double boiler. Anyways I guess maybe I've become comfortable with so many methods they all kind of seem the same now. I can say for new people however, each grain has it's own personality. Each it's own contamination vectors. Cheap can drive you nuts so don't skimp initially. Avoid no soak teks initially. Non active bacteria are very hard to kill. Let them wake up before you try. Don't make syringes from foil prints initially. Follow the PF Tek for print to syringes. I got a lot more but gotta run for now.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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B Traven
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 2
#27918873 - 08/25/22 08:19 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
the_chosen_one said: B calm down man. I haven't even read your post yet lol.
I knew this would ruffle feathers. Don't count me out as an asshole just yet. 
Give me some time to get in my door and I'll settle in here in a bit.
Just to be clear 98% is only this step. The majority of my failures come later during the fruiting stage.
BTW. I really like OP and even Ashtray. 
Calmer than you are, dude. Calmer than you are.
Seriously, tho, assuming that all you say is true, it got me thinking.
I mean, all day we see people squirting some syringe they ordered into microwaveable rice bags or whatever under god knows what conditions. I can't in good conscience tell them that I think squirting spores to grain is a good idea. And I'm sick of seeing people blame their failures on a "bunk syringe."
But if you're coming at it from the other side, having eliminated agar from your practice, then maybe you've really nailed down keeping all aspects of the life cycle clean to such an extent that your syringes are generally far cleaner and fresher. Just less crap in the mix over multiple generations. How long do they sit around after being made? Are you working in laminar flow? Etc., etc.
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
Edited by B Traven (08/25/22 08:22 PM)
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Ashtray161
SettledNomad



Registered: 03/21/21
Posts: 4,503
Loc: Rugby, England
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: B Traven] 1
#27918876 - 08/25/22 08:22 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
B Traven said:
Quote:
the_chosen_one said: B calm down man. I haven't even read your post yet lol.
I knew this would ruffle feathers. Don't count me out as an asshole just yet. 
Give me some time to get in my door and I'll settle in here in a bit.
Just to be clear 98% is only this step. The majority of my failures come later during the fruiting stage.
BTW. I really like OP and even Ashtray. 
Calmer than you are, dude. Calmer than you are.
Seriously, tho, assuming that all you say is true, it got me thinking.
I mean, all day we see people squirting some syringe they ordered into microwaveable rice bags or whatever under god knows what conditions. I can't in good conscience tell them that I think squirting spores to grain is a good idea. And I'm sick of seeing people blame their failures on a "bunk syringe."
But if you're coming at it from the other side, having eliminated agar from your practice, then maybe you've really nailed down keeping all aspects of the life cycle clean to such an extent that your syringes are generally far cleaner and fresher. How long do they sit around after being made? Are you working in laminar flow? Etc., etc.
Makes me wonder how many times vendors have had to replace a "bunk syringe" when the "cultivator" was splooging them into bags of UB lol
--------------------
(You Know What Time It Is) Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27677086 "You never have to prove the fool a fool, just let them speak." Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED. Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312
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B Traven
Stranger



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Ashtray161]
#27918879 - 08/25/22 08:23 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ashtray161 said:
Quote:
B Traven said:
Quote:
the_chosen_one said: B calm down man. I haven't even read your post yet lol.
I knew this would ruffle feathers. Don't count me out as an asshole just yet. 
Give me some time to get in my door and I'll settle in here in a bit.
Just to be clear 98% is only this step. The majority of my failures come later during the fruiting stage.
BTW. I really like OP and even Ashtray. 
Calmer than you are, dude. Calmer than you are.
Seriously, tho, assuming that all you say is true, it got me thinking.
I mean, all day we see people squirting some syringe they ordered into microwaveable rice bags or whatever under god knows what conditions. I can't in good conscience tell them that I think squirting spores to grain is a good idea. And I'm sick of seeing people blame their failures on a "bunk syringe."
But if you're coming at it from the other side, having eliminated agar from your practice, then maybe you've really nailed down keeping all aspects of the life cycle clean to such an extent that your syringes are generally far cleaner and fresher. How long do they sit around after being made? Are you working in laminar flow? Etc., etc.
Makes me wonder how many times vendors have had to replace a "bunk syringe" when the "cultivator" was splooging them into bags of UB lol
Haha for real
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 3
#27918905 - 08/25/22 08:41 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Right?
I've only come across 1 vendor syringe (from a trusted vendor) that was too dirty to successfully pull off a PF Tek grow..
I got an AA+ syringe that was extremely bacterial.. every jar looked like a vanilla milkshake with metabolites all that showed up on agar was bacteria.
Other than that, I've never seen a vendor syringe that I'd consider "bunk".. but I've read a ton of posts where someone did MSS to grain, failed, and blamed it on the syringe.. that is the target audience for this write up ๐ฏ
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san pedro guy
Captain



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 3
#27918913 - 08/25/22 08:48 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Spors syringes should be about the same quality as youโd expect from some pre made grains bags. Never know who made it or if it was done write.
Home made is always better
-------------------- Noob Grow Along 2022
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: san pedro guy] 1
#27918920 - 08/25/22 08:52 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
san pedro guy said: Spors syringes should be about the same quality as youโd expect from some pre made grains bags. Never know who made it or if it was done write.
Home made is always better
home made is definitely better... but for someone doing their first grow, a vendor syringe is usually the starting point.. even if they're not the best, most of them are good enough for a successful pf tek grow..
Once someone is able to produce their own spores, vendor syringes kinda become obsolete unless it's something special and you can't seem to get your hands on it through the community
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Ashtray161
SettledNomad



Registered: 03/21/21
Posts: 4,503
Loc: Rugby, England
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins]
#27918937 - 08/25/22 09:07 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Yea of course, but like said if starting out, unless you can find/live in an area with wild mushies youre not likely to have P Cube spores lying around haha. I guess you could buy a spore print and DIY the syringe but even then, same rule applies, who knows how well and sanitary the print was made lol
--------------------
(You Know What Time It Is) Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27677086 "You never have to prove the fool a fool, just let them speak." Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED. Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312
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the_chosen_one
On the Darkslide


Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 2,882
Loc: 1984
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: B Traven] 1
#27918948 - 08/25/22 09:26 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
B Traven said:
Quote:
the_chosen_one said: B calm down man. I haven't even read your post yet lol.
I knew this would ruffle feathers. Don't count me out as an asshole just yet. 
Give me some time to get in my door and I'll settle in here in a bit.
Just to be clear 98% is only this step. The majority of my failures come later during the fruiting stage.
BTW. I really like OP and even Ashtray. 
Calmer than you are, dude. Calmer than you are.
Seriously, tho, assuming that all you say is true, it got me thinking.
I mean, all day we see people squirting some syringe they ordered into microwaveable rice bags or whatever under god knows what conditions. I can't in good conscience tell them that I think squirting spores to grain is a good idea. And I'm sick of seeing people blame their failures on a "bunk syringe."
But if you're coming at it from the other side, having eliminated agar from your practice, then maybe you've really nailed down keeping all aspects of the life cycle clean to such an extent that your syringes are generally far cleaner and fresher. Just less crap in the mix over multiple generations. How long do they sit around after being made? Are you working in laminar flow? Etc., etc.
Cool. Cool. I like you too lol.
I'm with you. Believe me. Especially blaming syringes. I'm just saying they ain't doing it right.
Honestly out of several vendors only two have sent me provable actively dirty syringes. One doesn't exist anymore and the other worked it out. I don't buy a lot but I like to add to the collection every few years so that's to be kept in context.
It does lead me to believe the source of contamination is procedural in most cases. Next on my list would be like you said.. the grain. I'll spend the extra buck a pound. Totally worth it. I know it sucks working under a budget.. all too well. Ugh. But itโs about cutting the right corners. Playing advocate for the lazy person of course. For the last several years I've been using mostly Bob's Red Mill Pearl Barley. 24 to 48 hour soak to wake up what few nasties are in there. Gravity drain until it barely drips then PC. Time depends on how much is in the jar but a minimum of 30 minutes per cup of soaked grain. I keep everything small.. mostly pint jars. This is all with very clean well water. Never tested with city water but it's something to consider. The results might vary. Lead and fluoride concentrate as water boils. Not really shit I want in there either for several reasons. Syringes are always made PF style with distilled water and a gram of agar flakes per gallon. PF used to do a gram per liter but it's almost a waste of agar flakes. My formula works just as well for anti-clumping imo.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 1
#27918985 - 08/25/22 10:25 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Ooo.. that's interesting ๐ค I've never used agar In my syringes.. I may have to try it out sometime. What is the benefit to doing this? Spores sticking more to substrate, similar to SSLC?
Honestly, I don't personally know when the next time is ill make a spore syringe tho.. I've switched over to making LC from T1 plates for my PF Tek projects while I continue to clean/isolate my plates further for grain.
This is also something I would highly recommend to those starting out with agar.. it encourages them to practice agar work and how to prepare LC, while continuing to provide reliable results during the process.
I am just getting to the point with my agar work where I might soon consider trying a batch of LC to grain (I'll probably stick to wedges anyway) however, when I do decide to give it a try, it will be a lot less intimidating and I'll probably do a lot better job since I've already had plenty of practice preparing LC for Pf Tek..
Note for those considering LC for the first time: your culture and sterile work need to be top notch before using LC to inoculate grain.. any flaw in your culture or procedures will be amplified. Thats why I'd recommend continuing to utilize pf tek as a tool for learning. My T1 LC would probably have a really high fail rate on grain, but the contamination rates are miniscule when sending it to pf tek (I haven't lost a single jar yet)
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the_chosen_one
On the Darkslide


Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 2,882
Loc: 1984
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 4
#27919003 - 08/25/22 10:55 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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We didn't have PF Tek until a few years after the Homestead kit. I got lucky and had success with my first try. That kit was awesome. $200 but it had everything but a PC and a microscope. I believe the PF Tek is the best for beginners. It's fairly simple and it works. It's hard to put a price tag on confidence and it's the perfect tek to build it.
The agar in the water is to prevent spore clumping in the syringe. While most were playing with Jet Dry and other chemicals he was doing it like this the whole time. I actually have his hand typed recipe and instructions here somewhere. Been meaning to dig it out for the museum.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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DERRAYLD
Constructus


Registered: 05/13/02
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 2
#27919014 - 08/25/22 11:11 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
the_chosen_one said: I hate to be skeptic but I'm failing to understand how the PF Tek is less prone to contamination than a grain jar when it's the same thing. Spores going to grain. This is a great write up and I admire the passion.. knowing this took some time and effort. I guess I'm the Yang to the Yin in this case. I grow via a lot of different methods, but my most common option is spores to grain just because of the simplicity. My success rate is easily 98% making my own syringes and maybe just a little lower using vendor supplied. Like I said.. not trying to be negative. It's just this topic always leaves me a bit confused. Maybe it's because I started the long route with agar (and still use it today) but eventually worked myself back to the simple.

I agree with this statement because I also grew spores to grain with great success for many years prior to even considering agar.
On principle though I don't suggest it to new people because of the inherent risks involved, maybe we were more willing to experiment and fail in order to succeed.
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Giermmo
You fuckin' druggo


Registered: 01/01/22
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: DERRAYLD]
#27919059 - 08/26/22 12:48 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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I've grown multiple "strains" of cubensis from spores with spore syringes that i made with no problems. Just used SAB that wasn't even properly made, it was in winter though, in summer i had huge problems with contamination.
-------------------- Don't worry mate, what you're gonna feel is a slight burning in your heart, your lungs, your brain, your kidneys, your liver, bottom of your feet, your eyeballs, then you start bleeding from your nose and ears, then you start tripping out and seeing everything in the form of an anime cartoon which is really fucking cool.
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Ashtray161
SettledNomad



Registered: 03/21/21
Posts: 4,503
Loc: Rugby, England
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one]
#27919063 - 08/26/22 12:52 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
the_chosen_one said: Ok. Posting on the run. Still haven't read every post yet lol. Exceptional Situation. Not really. Just started diffently than most. Homestead agar kit and before that, stealing chunks of turf, gardens and chip piles to transplant. That's all we had. No internet and few books. Now thereโs such a wealth of resources it's very likely that some are crap. Go to a good time proven vendor if you are new to this. *this message brought to you by Sporeworks* Thinking back PF used to claim contamination resistance and superior potency with BRF. At first I was like yeah whatever. Same weird shit grows on my agar, grain and PF jars. But after trying millet it opened up a whole new world. Got me experimenting with grains in general. So I do agree that brown rice feeds less of the nasties we need to worry about. The method itself requires less sterilization work. It can even be done in a double boiler. Anyways I guess maybe I've become comfortable with so many methods they all kind of seem the same now. I can say for new people however, each grain has it's own personality. Each it's own contamination vectors. Cheap can drive you nuts so don't skimp initially. Avoid no soak teks initially. Non active bacteria are very hard to kill. Let them wake up before you try. Don't make syringes from foil prints initially. Follow the PF Tek for print to syringes. I got a lot more but gotta run for now.

What was/is the homestead agar kit?
--------------------
(You Know What Time It Is) Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27677086 "You never have to prove the fool a fool, just let them speak." Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED. Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312
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KROM
Local Oaf



Registered: 07/20/19
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Ashtray161] 3
#27919182 - 08/26/22 06:09 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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--------------------
๐
๐ด ๐ฐ ๐ผ ๐ฒ ๐ป ๐ธ ๐ฝ ๐ถ ๐
๐
๐ฐ ๐ฟ
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: KROM] 1
#27919276 - 08/26/22 07:49 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Guys, I think KROM should get one of our mushroom-power friendship rings..
He's obviously got the right attitude
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



Registered: 01/11/22
Posts: 4,738
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Ashtray161]
#27919282 - 08/26/22 07:51 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I could be wrong,.. but I think I remember reading somewhere that the homestead kit was a mushroom grow kit that you could order from high times magazine..
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B Traven
Stranger



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 2
#27919482 - 08/26/22 09:34 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rotnpins said: Maybe I should update this to include a section about UB 
Ok, I've got something to contribute to that section:
"Contaminants can be found everywhere, which is why sterile technique is so important. One source of contamination that's not often mentioned is Reddit. It can easily infect you with brain rot."
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
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Ashtray161
SettledNomad



Registered: 03/21/21
Posts: 4,503
Loc: Rugby, England
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: B Traven] 2
#27919486 - 08/26/22 09:35 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Lol just wait til my Page on UB on the shroomery wiki goes live
--------------------
(You Know What Time It Is) Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27677086 "You never have to prove the fool a fool, just let them speak." Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED. Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



Registered: 01/11/22
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: B Traven]
#27919492 - 08/26/22 09:38 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
B Traven said:
Quote:
Rotnpins said: Maybe I should update this to include a section about UB 
Ok, I've got something to contribute to that section:
"Contaminants can be found everywhere, which is why sterile technique is so important. One source of contamination that's not often mentioned is Reddit. It can easily infect you with brain rot."
Pretty much exactly what I would have said ๐ฏ
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Ashtray161]
#27919495 - 08/26/22 09:38 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ashtray161 said: Lol just wait til my Page on UB on the shroomery wiki goes live
I know... I've gone back to the wiki 3 or 4 times to see if it's up yet
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B Traven
Stranger



Registered: 03/10/20
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 2
#27919496 - 08/26/22 09:39 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rotnpins said: I could be wrong,.. but I think I remember reading somewhere that the homestead kit was a mushroom grow kit that you could order from high times magazine..
Oh, wow.
My first successful grow was from a PF syringe ordered from the back of High Times.
Before that was my first unsuccessful grow, attempting to follow the instructions in the Magic Mushroom Growers' Guide. With a print ordered from Fungi Perfecti, back when they still sold them. I had no idea that Oss and Oeric were actually Stamets and Mckenna lol
I guess the homestead kit ads ran sometime in between those two events.
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
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B Traven
Stranger



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 1
#27919512 - 08/26/22 09:48 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
the_chosen_one said:
Quote:
B Traven said:
Quote:
the_chosen_one said: B calm down man. I haven't even read your post yet lol.
I knew this would ruffle feathers. Don't count me out as an asshole just yet. 
Give me some time to get in my door and I'll settle in here in a bit.
Just to be clear 98% is only this step. The majority of my failures come later during the fruiting stage.
BTW. I really like OP and even Ashtray. 
Calmer than you are, dude. Calmer than you are.
Seriously, tho, assuming that all you say is true, it got me thinking.
I mean, all day we see people squirting some syringe they ordered into microwaveable rice bags or whatever under god knows what conditions. I can't in good conscience tell them that I think squirting spores to grain is a good idea. And I'm sick of seeing people blame their failures on a "bunk syringe."
But if you're coming at it from the other side, having eliminated agar from your practice, then maybe you've really nailed down keeping all aspects of the life cycle clean to such an extent that your syringes are generally far cleaner and fresher. Just less crap in the mix over multiple generations. How long do they sit around after being made? Are you working in laminar flow? Etc., etc.
Cool. Cool. I like you too lol.
I'm with you. Believe me. Especially blaming syringes. I'm just saying they ain't doing it right.
Honestly out of several vendors only two have sent me provable actively dirty syringes. One doesn't exist anymore and the other worked it out. I don't buy a lot but I like to add to the collection every few years so that's to be kept in context.
It does lead me to believe the source of contamination is procedural in most cases. Next on my list would be like you said.. the grain. I'll spend the extra buck a pound. Totally worth it. I know it sucks working under a budget.. all too well. Ugh. But itโs about cutting the right corners. Playing advocate for the lazy person of course. For the last several years I've been using mostly Bob's Red Mill Pearl Barley. 24 to 48 hour soak to wake up what few nasties are in there. Gravity drain until it barely drips then PC. Time depends on how much is in the jar but a minimum of 30 minutes per cup of soaked grain. I keep everything small.. mostly pint jars. This is all with very clean well water. Never tested with city water but it's something to consider. The results might vary. Lead and fluoride concentrate as water boils. Not really shit I want in there either for several reasons. Syringes are always made PF style with distilled water and a gram of agar flakes per gallon. PF used to do a gram per liter but it's almost a waste of agar flakes. My formula works just as well for anti-clumping imo.
Right on, right on ๐ป
So you mentioned still running plates sometimes. Do you still use agar to clone and isolate cultures, then? Or do you just do selection work by picking the best fruits to print? Or do you mostly just not even worry about it?
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
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Guerrilla
Bumbaclart


Registered: 01/30/21
Posts: 3,170
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Ashtray161] 2
#27919638 - 08/26/22 11:05 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ashtray161 said: Lol just wait til my Page on UB on the shroomery wiki goes live
https://shroomery.wiki/index.php/Uncle_Ben%27s_Tek
Done
-------------------- Being pissed on does not make you a real man.
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shigmon
Hyperbologist


Registered: 07/06/22
Posts: 52
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: DERRAYLD]
#27919650 - 08/26/22 11:17 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
the_chosen_one said: ...my most common option is spores to grain just because of the simplicity. My success rate is easily 98% making my own syringes and maybe just a little lower using vendor supplied...
Quote:
DERRAYLD said: I agree with this statement because I also grew spores to grain with great success for many years..
Do as I say but not as I do? It's such a shame things have come to this. This attitude is a huge turn-off to new growers seeking reliable info.
Quote:
DERRAYLD said: On principle though I don't suggest it to new people because of the inherent risks involved..
Really, "the inherent risks involved?" You mean "grew spores to grain with great success for many years" carries "inherent risks?"
With all due respect, it seems as though spores to grain carries very little risk, according to your own words.
It's like saying, hey mate, you walk through that waist high field of shit, while I take this easy bridge over and around while your not looking. Don't look now, ya hear?
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cooleko
Augmentum provocatus

Registered: 08/15/22
Posts: 1,010
Loc: Seattle
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Guerrilla] 1
#27919654 - 08/26/22 11:20 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Surprisingly eloquent for an ashtray, nice write up!Quote:
Guerrilla said:
Quote:
Ashtray161 said: Lol just wait til my Page on UB on the shroomery wiki goes live
https://shroomery.wiki/index.php/Uncle_Ben%27s_Tek
Done 
Surprisingly eloquent for an ashtray, nice write up!
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B Traven
Stranger



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: cooleko] 3
#27919665 - 08/26/22 11:36 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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shigmon said:
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the_chosen_one said: ...my most common option is spores to grain just because of the simplicity. My success rate is easily 98% making my own syringes and maybe just a little lower using vendor supplied...
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DERRAYLD said: I agree with this statement because I also grew spores to grain with great success for many years..
Do as I say but not as I do? It's such a shame things have come to this. This attitude is a huge turn-off to new growers seeking reliable info.
Quote:
DERRAYLD said: On principle though I don't suggest it to new people because of the inherent risks involved..
Really, "the inherent risks involved?" You mean "grew spores to grain with great success for many years" carries "inherent risks?"
With all due respect, it seems as though spores to grain carries very little risk, according to your own words.
It's like saying, hey mate, you walk through that waist high field of shit, while I take this easy bridge over and around while your not looking. Don't look now, ya hear?
Quote:
shigmon said:
Quote:
the_chosen_one said: ...my most common option is spores to grain just because of the simplicity. My success rate is easily 98% making my own syringes and maybe just a little lower using vendor supplied...
Quote:
DERRAYLD said: I agree with this statement because I also grew spores to grain with great success for many years..
Do as I say but not as I do? It's such a shame things have come to this. This attitude is a huge turn-off to new growers seeking reliable info.
Quote:
DERRAYLD said: On principle though I don't suggest it to new people because of the inherent risks involved..
Really, "the inherent risks involved?" You mean "grew spores to grain with great success for many years" carries "inherent risks?"
With all due respect, it seems as though spores to grain carries very little risk, according to your own words.
It's like saying, hey mate, you walk through that waist high field of shit, while I take this easy bridge over and around while your not looking. Don't look now, ya hear?
Bruh, do whatever the fuck you want, nobody cares.
"Do as I say, not as I do" is a phrase used when describing a parent or some other person in a position of authority and power. We're literally just trying to help strangers, for free, on our own time here. And give the best possible advice we can. There's naturally disagreement and a diversity of opinion on what that advice should be. Even within our own heads.
Derralyd's point was that, in the absence of the sort of guidance and collective experience that exists now, they may have been more willing to deal with the steep and murky learning curve involved in doing spores to grain over and over again until most contamination issues were resolved. If you want to take that route, nobody's stopping you.
It's more like "I'm a tightrope walker and I'm going to walk across this chasm on a wire, with no safety harness. If you're not a practiced tightrope walker, then I recommend you take the switchback path down and back up."
We don't have a unified way of collecting hard data on contamination rates, so we're left with vague and random descriptors. These aren't legal documents here.
Mushroom cultivation is challenging, and that's what discourages most people. If someone gets scared away from it by people being snippy or confusing on the internet, then it probably wasn't for them in the first place.
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
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shigmon
Hyperbologist


Registered: 07/06/22
Posts: 52
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: shigmon]
#27919674 - 08/26/22 11:43 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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the_chosen_one said: ...my most common option is spores to grain just because of the simplicity. My success rate is easily 98% making my own syringes and maybe just a little lower using vendor supplied...
Quote:
DERRAYLD said: ..I also grew spores to grain with great success for many years..
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shigmon said: ..it seems as though spores to grain carries very little risk..
As a matter of fact, I'm quite convinced that spores to grain IS THE WAY to go for myself till I get at least a few flushes under my belt. Thanks!
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Guerrilla]
#27919682 - 08/26/22 11:48 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Guerrilla said:
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Ashtray161 said: Lol just wait til my Page on UB on the shroomery wiki goes live
https://shroomery.wiki/index.php/Uncle_Ben%27s_Tek
Done 
Good job Ashtray, I love it 
Edited by Rotnpins (08/26/22 11:52 AM)
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shigmon
Hyperbologist


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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: B Traven]
#27919684 - 08/26/22 11:50 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
B Traven said: Mushroom cultivation is challenging, and that's what discourages most people. If someone gets scared away from it by people being snippy or confusing on the internet, then it probably wasn't for them in the first place.
What's scaring people off is it being made out to be much more complex and a pain in the ass than it actually is. Hell, you all almost talked me out of it. I'm doing my own experiments to see things for my self.
Edited by shigmon (08/26/22 12:14 PM)
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: shigmon] 6
#27919691 - 08/26/22 11:55 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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This write up us strictly for informational purposes.. if you don't find it relative to you and choose to disregard that information, that's up to you.. but let's not turn this thread in to an argument just for the sake of arguing.
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shigmon
Hyperbologist


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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 2
#27919717 - 08/26/22 12:16 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Much respect to you, sir.
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B Traven
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: shigmon] 1
#27919720 - 08/26/22 12:20 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
shigmon said:
Quote:
B Traven said: Mushroom cultivation is challenging, and that's what discourages most people. If someone gets scared away from it by people being snippy or confusing on the internet, then it probably wasn't for them in the first place.
What's scaring people off is it being made out to be much more complex and a pain in the ass than it actually is. Hell, you all almost talked me out of it. i'm doing my own experiments to see things for my self. I got time. i ain't in no hurry. If I lose a couple of grows learning the process, no biggy.
My apologies, I missed the most obvious thing that scares people off: the fact that it's still a felony in most places.
I'm not aware of any other place in the world that gets as far into the nitty gritty of psilocybe cultivation as the Shroomery. When I first started reading this site, I was completely overwhelmed, and ended up adopting a series of outdated techniques. As I succeeded and failed at various things, I went back and read more, gradually evolving in what I do. That process continues. There's still a bunch of discussion on here that confuses the shit out of me. Some of it may never apply to my situation. I'm still glad we have a space where people can talk shop, and not have to constantly go back to the finger-painting version of things so that nobody stumbles across a thread and gets discouraged.
Everything is simple, everything is complex. As we develop our skills in any pursuit, we go through all sorts of subjective changes in our perception of the tasks involved. Things often seem "easy" after a cursory glance or a round of beginner's luck, then impossibly complex, and then like second-nature. Also keep in mind that people have various goals and parameters when it comes to growing psilocybes, many of which we can't or won't discuss online.
I look forward to hearing more about your journey. We need more datapoints!
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
Edited by B Traven (08/26/22 12:22 PM)
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CJD


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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 2
#27919727 - 08/26/22 12:33 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Rotnpins said: Ooo.. that's interesting ๐ค I've never used agar In my syringes.. I may have to try it out sometime. What is the benefit to doing this? Spores sticking more to substrate, similar to SSLC?
Honestly, I don't personally know when the next time is ill make a spore syringe tho.. I've switched over to making LC from T1 plates for my PF Tek projects while I continue to clean/isolate my plates further for grain.
This is also something I would highly recommend to those starting out with agar.. it encourages them to practice agar work and how to prepare LC, while continuing to provide reliable results during the process.
I am just getting to the point with my agar work where I might soon consider trying a batch of LC to grain (I'll probably stick to wedges anyway) however, when I do decide to give it a try, it will be a lot less intimidating and I'll probably do a lot better job since I've already had plenty of practice preparing LC for Pf Tek..
Note for those considering LC for the first time: your culture and sterile work need to be top notch before using LC to inoculate grain.. any flaw in your culture or procedures will be amplified. Thats why I'd recommend continuing to utilize pf tek as a tool for learning. My T1 LC would probably have a really high fail rate on grain, but the contamination rates are miniscule when sending it to pf tek (I haven't lost a single jar yet)
Have you ever tried this for LC? Josex' Poke
I stumbled across it in a rabbit hole I was going down & seemed like a pretty legitimate way to create clean LC with many others seeing success as well.
Since I've gotten on this forum I keep going into the weeds in my free time & finding all things I want to save for future reference.
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B Traven
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: CJD]
#27919738 - 08/26/22 12:39 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
CJD said:
Quote:
Rotnpins said: Ooo.. that's interesting ๐ค I've never used agar In my syringes.. I may have to try it out sometime. What is the benefit to doing this? Spores sticking more to substrate, similar to SSLC?
Honestly, I don't personally know when the next time is ill make a spore syringe tho.. I've switched over to making LC from T1 plates for my PF Tek projects while I continue to clean/isolate my plates further for grain.
This is also something I would highly recommend to those starting out with agar.. it encourages them to practice agar work and how to prepare LC, while continuing to provide reliable results during the process.
I am just getting to the point with my agar work where I might soon consider trying a batch of LC to grain (I'll probably stick to wedges anyway) however, when I do decide to give it a try, it will be a lot less intimidating and I'll probably do a lot better job since I've already had plenty of practice preparing LC for Pf Tek..
Note for those considering LC for the first time: your culture and sterile work need to be top notch before using LC to inoculate grain.. any flaw in your culture or procedures will be amplified. Thats why I'd recommend continuing to utilize pf tek as a tool for learning. My T1 LC would probably have a really high fail rate on grain, but the contamination rates are miniscule when sending it to pf tek (I haven't lost a single jar yet)
Have you ever tried this for LC? Josex' Poke
I stumbled across it in a rabbit hole I was going down & seemed like a pretty legitimate way to create clean LC with many others seeing success as well.
Since I've gotten on this forum I keep going into the weeds in my free time & finding all things I want to save for future reference.
I guess it can also be used to take very small samples for transfers, when youโre trying to clean up a culture that you don't want to use. I keep meaning to try it, but still haven't gotten around to it yet.
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27919742 - 08/26/22 12:45 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Yup. I've used the josex poke for a few different things.. mostly for difficult transfers, like getting a tissue sample from a small plate pin on contaminated plate. It's a very good tek
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cooleko
Augmentum provocatus

Registered: 08/15/22
Posts: 1,010
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: B Traven]
#27919788 - 08/26/22 01:26 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
B Traven said:
Quote:
shigmon said:
Quote:
B Traven said: Mushroom cultivation is challenging, and that's what discourages most people. If someone gets scared away from it by people being snippy or confusing on the internet, then it probably wasn't for them in the first place.
What's scaring people off is it being made out to be much more complex and a pain in the ass than it actually is. Hell, you all almost talked me out of it. i'm doing my own experiments to see things for my self. I got time. i ain't in no hurry. If I lose a couple of grows learning the process, no biggy.
My apologies, I missed the most obvious thing that scares people off: the fact that it's still a felony in most places.
I'm not aware of any other place in the world that gets as far into the nitty gritty of psilocybe cultivation as the Shroomery. When I first started reading this site, I was completely overwhelmed, and ended up adopting a series of outdated techniques. As I succeeded and failed at various things, I went back and read more, gradually evolving in what I do. That process continues. There's still a bunch of discussion on here that confuses the shit out of me. Some of it may never apply to my situation. I'm still glad we have a space where people can talk shop, and not have to constantly go back to the finger-painting version of things so that nobody stumbles across a thread and gets discouraged.
Everything is simple, everything is complex. As we develop our skills in any pursuit, we go through all sorts of subjective changes in our perception of the tasks involved. Things often seem "easy" after a cursory glance or a round of beginner's luck, then impossibly complex, and then like second-nature. Also keep in mind that people have various goals and parameters when it comes to growing psilocybes, many of which we can't or won't discuss online.
I look forward to hearing more about your journey. We need more datapoints!
This guy gets it. The process is so simple:
1. Get the reproductive or growth part of the mushroom onto something nutritious.
- Spores, mycelium, or a chunk of mushroom, it doesn't matter because life finds a way.
2. Let it grow.
3. Let it fruit.
You can do it all at once or you can do it step by step through an almost infinite manner of TEKs.
The cleaner you are, the better your chances of success. The more closely you conform your conditions to those that mushrooms love, the better your chances of success.
At the end of the day, what matters is what you want to do and if you want to risk failure a few times before you find your preferred method.
Some here want you to stick to their preferred methods, but that might not be what works best for you. Since you are the one living your life, just do what you want, learn from your mistakes, and enjoy your new hobby.
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the_chosen_one
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: B Traven] 2
#27920081 - 08/26/22 05:44 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DERRAYLD said:
On principle though I don't suggest it to new people because of the inherent risks involved, maybe we were more willing to experiment and fail in order to succeed.
You saying we're just crotchety old shits D? I'm not sure we had a choice. Everything was innovative back then. The youngsters have no excuse. 
Quote:
Rotnpins said: I could be wrong,.. but I think I remember reading somewhere that the homestead kit was a mushroom grow kit that you could order from high times magazine..
It was. Not like today's kit. That's Rich Gee's creation when he merged with Homestead. The old Homestead kit had tools, petri, agar, spores, grain and compost. The works. Everything but a PC and an SAB. I think Bob Harris wrote the directions for the SAB. Bob is/was great at duplicating nature but his SAB design left a little to be desired. That was my first official bending of the rules. Otherwise I followed the directions explicitly.
The adds overlapped for a few years but Homestead was first. They also dropped theirs for a period before PF did. I remember the first time I saw his add. I was like no way. Dudes nuts.. but look at that shit. This does kinda make sense. WTF. Itโs a $20 gamble. Let it roll. Then I saw the addy. About an hour and a half away from me. I wrote a letter with my order which he responded to because he saw my addy was where he lived before he moved to the lake. We stayed in contact for many years. I finally met him shortly after his run in with Johnny. Anyways, I don't want to side track too much. There's a History of the PE thread where the ramblings are better suited.
Quote:
B Traven said:
Right on, right on ๐ป
So you mentioned still running plates sometimes. Do you still use agar to clone and isolate cultures, then? Or do you just do selection work by picking the best fruits to print? Or do you mostly just not even worry about it?
Yes. Yes. And yes lol.
I prefer agar for isolation, clean up and storage. It can even be used as an exellerated breeding program. Cloning from agar pins.
I do have a Falbino variant that I'm breeding the old fashioned way.
Nah. Get burned enough and the scar tissue leaves things a little numb lol. My failure fits are short and sweet now a days. Usually they leave me more determined than ever.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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san pedro guy
Captain



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 1
#27920255 - 08/26/22 07:40 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Sooo, if spores to grains works if you collect your own spores then store bought syringes can be used to make pf cakes, collect spores, then make your own spore syringe and use that to to noc up some ubโฆ?? pretty smart huh
-------------------- Noob Grow Along 2022
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uninc4life2010
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: san pedro guy] 2
#27920540 - 08/27/22 12:27 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I just wanted to post pics of my P. Gallindoi ATL7 jars that were inoculated with spore solution. They didn't turn out so great 


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DERRAYLD
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: shigmon] 5
#27920593 - 08/27/22 02:28 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
shigmon said:
Quote:
the_chosen_one said: ...my most common option is spores to grain just because of the simplicity. My success rate is easily 98% making my own syringes and maybe just a little lower using vendor supplied...
Quote:
DERRAYLD said: I agree with this statement because I also grew spores to grain with great success for many years..
Do as I say but not as I do? It's such a shame things have come to this. This attitude is a huge turn-off to new growers seeking reliable info.
Quote:
DERRAYLD said: On principle though I don't suggest it to new people because of the inherent risks involved..
Really, "the inherent risks involved?" You mean "grew spores to grain with great success for many years" carries "inherent risks?"
With all due respect, it seems as though spores to grain carries very little risk, according to your own words.
It's like saying, hey mate, you walk through that waist high field of shit, while I take this easy bridge over and around while your not looking. Don't look now, ya hear?
Let me state a valid yet unpopular opinion;
We don't suggest spore to grain to new users because chances are they will fuck it up hence us suggesting agar as a norm due to the ease of use and scientific approach to sterility and axenic spawn.
I base this statement off of experience dealing with new growers that fail due to a lack of knowledge and understanding not due to the spore syringe.
Personally I don't put spore to grain at all anymore because agar is infinitely better imo .
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CJD


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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 5
#27920676 - 08/27/22 05:44 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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As a complete noob who hasn't even opened my syringe yet I feel like other noobs are missing the point here 100%. Even if you do everything 100% clean you're still gambling with how clean your syringe is without knowing at all. The reason the experienced growers are suggesting pf tek or agar is because they want us to have some success & not be discouraged by failing our first at bat.
I've seen so many threads with inexperienced growers fighting TCs & other experienced growers over whether things "may work". I haven't seen anyone in the experienced category tell folks not to experiment but instead just pointing out that it isn't recommended due to higher rates of failure.
Personally I'm wanting to learn the way that increases my odds of success instead of focusing purely on the easiest way which may also lead to failure. Even though I've seen some TCs be pretty blunt with their words I'm always in awe of the arrogance of those with little to no experience trying to advocate for risky practices for beginners. Just my unexperienced .
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: CJD] 2
#27920729 - 08/27/22 06:35 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
CJD said: As a complete noob who hasn't even opened my syringe yet I feel like other noobs are missing the point here 100%. Even if you do everything 100% clean you're still gambling with how clean your syringe is without knowing at all. The reason the experienced growers are suggesting pf tek or agar is because they want us to have some success & not be discouraged by failing our first at bat.
I've seen so many threads with inexperienced growers fighting TCs & other experienced growers over whether things "may work". I haven't seen anyone in the experienced category tell folks not to experiment but instead just pointing out that it isn't recommended due to higher rates of failure.
Personally I'm wanting to learn the way that increases my odds of success instead of focusing purely on the easiest way which may also lead to failure. Even though I've seen some TCs be pretty blunt with their words I'm always in awe of the arrogance of those with little to no experience trying to advocate for risky practices for beginners. Just my unexperienced .
๐ฏ I like this guy 
Welcome to The Shroomery
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the_chosen_one
On the Darkslide


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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27920730 - 08/27/22 06:37 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Me too.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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KROM
Local Oaf



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 2
#27920734 - 08/27/22 06:43 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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--------------------
๐
๐ด ๐ฐ ๐ผ ๐ฒ ๐ป ๐ธ ๐ฝ ๐ถ ๐
๐
๐ฐ ๐ฟ
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the_chosen_one
On the Darkslide


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Loc: 1984
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 3
#27920766 - 08/27/22 07:12 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Ok. In regards to do what I say not as I do. There's a reason for that. Not setting people up for failure. You need to know what the corners are before cutting. That's why I said it's about cutting the right corners. PF was an absolute master at this. Context is really important here. I do spores to grain now, but it's not how I started. As a matter of fact it was many years before I began refining the method. I thank Rich Gee for that. Dude could drop a swab into a grain bag and make it work. Swab users should thank him btw. He was the first to incorporate the concept. He was also a kitchen cultivator like me. He had a big influence in my ways. But it was a progression. It's natural to want to cut corners or even reinvent the wheel. I'm one of those people myself. I began with agar. Got lucky on my first try. Gained a little too much confidence and my next few attempts failed. It was a rough ride. Thus I now preach discipline lol. If we had PF Tek back then I would have definitely gone that route first. There's nothing easier to this day for new people. Agar would have been my next choice or step. It takes the right kind of stubborn to start that route and not everyone has it. Everyone is different and the PF Tek finds the middle ground. So yeah. Do as I fucking say not as I do!
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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the_chosen_one
On the Darkslide


Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 2,882
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 2
#27920767 - 08/27/22 07:14 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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KROM brought us bad ass rings so yer alright too.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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KROM
Local Oaf



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 4
#27920777 - 08/27/22 07:25 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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--------------------
๐
๐ด ๐ฐ ๐ผ ๐ฒ ๐ป ๐ธ ๐ฝ ๐ถ ๐
๐
๐ฐ ๐ฟ
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the_chosen_one
On the Darkslide


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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: uninc4life2010] 1
#27920830 - 08/27/22 08:16 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
uninc4life2010 said: I just wanted to post pics of my P. Gallindoi ATL7 jars that were inoculated with spore solution. They didn't turn out so great 



ATL7 always looks like the walking dead. It's not easy identifying contamination with that one. Have you visited the official stone producers thread? Highly recommend it.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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CJD


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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 2
#27921944 - 08/27/22 11:37 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Haha I know I'm stubborn & went ahead with agar as my first at bat tonight. Used my SAB & a drop from each of 2 syringes to 6 petri dishes... making the agar was the most stressful part (i used dog food ).
Got 3 dishes of GT & 3 of Blue Meanies (I hadn't heard of these but they were a freebie from the supplier. Has anyone grown them?).
While I was putting the syringes away I thought to myself "I should really try PF TEK because I'll never use up these syringes otherwise"
Just want to say thanks to this community & all those who strive to give everyone the best guidance. It's so nice to have friends all across the world rooting for my success in this adventure.
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27921958 - 08/28/22 12:05 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Thats awesome. Good luck with the first plates, be sure to take pictures and post in the agar envy thread if you have any questions about growth/where to transfer from/etc. It never hurts to get some other eyes on a plate before doing transfers.
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san pedro guy
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 3
#27924083 - 08/29/22 01:10 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I think we need a โmisting and fanning: why it sucksโ thread. Iโd write it but I think youโre way better at it
-------------------- Noob Grow Along 2022
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B Traven
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: san pedro guy] 4
#27924097 - 08/29/22 01:22 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
san pedro guy said: I think we need a โmisting and fanning: why it sucksโ thread. Iโd write it but I think youโre way better at it 
Bro, stop gatekeeping, I open my tubs and put a box fan in front of them 5 times a day and then hit them with a super-soaker. I have to do that because they're all packed in under my college dorm bunkbed inside a trunk with no FAE so the RA's don't find them and next to the radiator so they dry out fast. Everyone's situation is different and this place is toxic.
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Seamonkey84
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: B Traven]
#27924248 - 08/29/22 02:58 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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That seems like a whole lot of work. Could you get an aquarium air pump and feed it into the trunk and put some holes in you tubs?
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Guerrilla
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Seamonkey84] 2
#27924254 - 08/29/22 03:01 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Pretty sure he was being sarcastic
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A.k.a
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one] 1
#27924310 - 08/29/22 03:33 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
the_chosen_one said: I hate to be skeptic but I'm failing to understand how the PF Tek is less prone to contamination than a grain jar when it's the same thing. Spores going to grain. This is a great write up and I admire the passion.. knowing this took some time and effort. I guess I'm the Yang to the Yin in this case. I grow via a lot of different methods, but my most common option is spores to grain just because of the simplicity. My success rate is easily 98% making my own syringes and maybe just a little lower using vendor supplied. Like I said.. not trying to be negative. It's just this topic always leaves me a bit confused. Maybe it's because I started the long route with agar (and still use it today) but eventually worked myself back to the simple.

Same here, I had at least 95% success rate with syringes.
It is ALL about where you get them. Thereโs a ton of people who decide to sell syringes with no idea how things work which has given syringes a bad reputation in the last few years. I did at least 60 jars before losing one when I started out. Same deal with people buying grain bags. Thereโs a couple very popular sellers who ADVERTISE with pictures of bacterial bags lmao.
My view on this is that prob 9 out of 10 places sell shitty syringes, but if you work to find a solid source theyโre absolutely a great way to go if youโre not trying to get seriously into mush cult.
I actually had never lost a jar until I started agar, my SAB skills were not up to snuff initially
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A.k.a
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: the_chosen_one]
#27924314 - 08/29/22 03:35 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
the_chosen_one said:
Quote:
uninc4life2010 said: I just wanted to post pics of my P. Gallindoi ATL7 jars that were inoculated with spore solution. They didn't turn out so great 



ATL7 always looks like the walking dead. It's not easy identifying contamination with that one. Have you visited the official stone producers thread? Highly recommend it. 
Yeah stone producers look gnarly.
That agar is fine, the jars look alright to me too. I never grow stones in jars so Iโm not super familiar with how they start to look, but those seem fine.
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uninc4life2010
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: A.k.a]
#27924440 - 08/29/22 05:00 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said:
Yeah stone producers look gnarly.
That agar is fine, the jars look alright to me too. I never grow stones in jars so Iโm not super familiar with how they start to look, but those seem fine.
That's what I was thinking at the time. I smelled the jars, and they really didn't smell that funky. The agar just looked off to me. Well, I'm going to give it another shot here soon, so I'll make sure to post in that thread when I have questions.
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Ashtray161
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: B Traven] 2
#27925044 - 08/30/22 12:21 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
B Traven said:
Quote:
san pedro guy said: I think we need a โmisting and fanning: why it sucksโ thread. Iโd write it but I think youโre way better at it 
Bro, stop gatekeeping, I open my tubs and put a box fan in front of them 5 times a day and then hit them with a super-soaker. I have to do that because they're all packed in under my college dorm bunkbed inside a trunk with no FAE so the RA's don't find them and next to the radiator so they dry out fast. Everyone's situation is different and this place is toxic.

--------------------
(You Know What Time It Is) Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27677086 "You never have to prove the fool a fool, just let them speak." Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED. Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312
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Then Transporeter
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27933474 - 09/04/22 10:59 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks these links are really hepful.
-------------------- "I don't care what congress does, so long as they don't do it in the streets and startle the horses." -Victor Hugo >>>LOVE YOURSELF........<3----------        --------;)........HELP OTHERS>>>
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 4
#27948506 - 09/13/22 06:00 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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B Traven
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 4
#27948509 - 09/13/22 06:03 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rotnpins said:

Uncle Ben TRICHS again...
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Guerrilla
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: B Traven]
#27948512 - 09/13/22 06:04 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- Being pissed on does not make you a real man.
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SirPsycho
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Guerrilla] 2
#27948521 - 09/13/22 06:10 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Shoulda used Dr. Myc
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Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
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IllegalSeagull


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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives *DELETED* [Re: Rotnpins]
#28068670 - 11/25/22 11:20 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by IllegalSeagull
Reason for deletion: I broke a rule :/
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cozmyc
gentle modern ape



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: IllegalSeagull]
#28068675 - 11/25/22 11:26 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Normally we'd say take the vendor name out of your post because it's against the rules. But, you might need to rephrase entirely..
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IllegalSeagull


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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: cozmyc]
#28068698 - 11/25/22 11:52 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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You're right, forgot about that :/ but LC is available for those who look !
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cozmyc
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: IllegalSeagull] 2
#28068702 - 11/25/22 11:54 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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I would still test the LC before use tho
-------------------- You're conscious population 2 stardust ---------------------- and that's valuable
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Rotnpins
๐คฎ Rotten-Pins ๐



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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: cozmyc] 7
#28068862 - 11/25/22 01:39 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
cozmyc said: I would still test the LC before use tho 

I've talked to a few people who've ordered LC... the small sample group of people that I've talked to had issues. 2 of them saved the cultures after some transfers on agar, but it definitely wasn't a clean LC.. (one of the people who tested some of the pre-made LCs was a TC)
I'm sure that there are vendors out there that sell clean, high-quality, LCs.. but I wouldn't trust anything without testing it. Until you've confirmed it for yourself, it's always a risk..
Just my personal opinion... but this is one of those hobbies where it's best to just do everything yourself (grain prep, media prep, culture work, etc)
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IllegalSeagull


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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#28069169 - 11/25/22 04:59 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rotnpins said:
Quote:
cozmyc said: I would still test the LC before use tho 

I've talked to a few people who've ordered LC... the small sample group of people that I've talked to had issues. 2 of them saved the cultures after some transfers on agar, but it definitely wasn't a clean LC.. (one of the people who tested some of the pre-made LCs was a TC)
I'm sure that there are vendors out there that sell clean, high-quality, LCs.. but I wouldn't trust anything without testing it. Until you've confirmed it for yourself, it's always a risk..
Just my personal opinion... but this is one of those hobbies where it's best to just do everything yourself (grain prep, media prep, culture work, etc)
Yeah I'm sure its hit or miss on every syringe, I am running a tub of purchased LC inoculated grain that seems to be doing ok, at least no contam but definitely on the slower side. We shall see in the next week how things end up !
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KROM
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: shigmon] 1
#28093199 - 12/11/22 10:54 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
shigmon said:
Quote:
the_chosen_one said: ...my most common option is spores to grain just because of the simplicity. My success rate is easily 98% making my own syringes and maybe just a little lower using vendor supplied...
Quote:
DERRAYLD said: ..I also grew spores to grain with great success for many years..
Quote:
shigmon said: ..it seems as though spores to grain carries very little risk..
As a matter of fact, I'm quite convinced that spores to grain IS THE WAY to go for myself till I get at least a few flushes under my belt. Thanks!
Iโm curious about how this worked out for him.
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myc_ousin_vinny
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins]
#28220171 - 03/08/23 06:39 AM (10 months, 15 days ago) |
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Nice writeup Rotnpins 
Saw your plate pin post yesterday as well. The poster said it was "PLIN Tek" but I didn't see that in the title
Anyway, solid post
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cozmyc
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: Rotnpins]
#28220568 - 03/08/23 11:02 AM (10 months, 15 days ago) |
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Miss ya broseph!
-------------------- You're conscious population 2 stardust ---------------------- and that's valuable
Edited by cozmyc (03/11/23 12:57 PM)
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JackAsserson
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: cozmyc]
#28224195 - 03/10/23 06:07 PM (10 months, 13 days ago) |
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Sure wish I discovered this thread before blasting 10 uncle Benโs with spores!
Question: Iโve got an all in one grow bag in the same drawer as the uncle Benโs. If the rice were to contaminate would it increase the odds/ pose a risk to the all in one bag becoming contam?
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A.k.a
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Re: Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives [Re: JackAsserson]
#28224973 - 03/11/23 10:58 AM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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Nope, Plus the bag should have a filter on it anyway.
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LAGM2020     
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